How to stop terrorists and mass shooters from obtaining weapons in the US

[Dan Druff]

There is a lot of controversy since the Orlando shooting regarding the availability of weapons for terrorists and other mass shooters in the US.

One idea being pushed is to take away the rights to buy guys for anyone on the no fly list.

However, there are valid criticisms to this plan, given that the no-fly list is full of both false positives and common names. Laughably, even Senator Ted Kennedy had problems flying because the government had been told that some terrorists were going to fly under the name "T. Kennedy", and that prevented all Ted Kennedys from flying without intense questioning (even the Senator whose legal name was Edward!)

It amazes me that the no-fly list isn't attached to BOTH name and birthdate, so these mistakes don't happen, but apparently this is very common.

However, it's also ridiculous that a suspected terrorists like Omar Mateen was able to purchase high-powered weaponry without anyone blinking an eye. We've also had situations of mentally ill people managing to purchase firearms, and the committing mass shootings.

There is no easy solution to this.

However, I think that one solution would involve better communication between agencies.

If someone attempts to purchase weapons, and are on any sort of terror watch list, the organization which put them on the list should be contacted immediately, and that person should be investgated. While the investigation is occurring, the person's right to firearms should be frozen, but not irrevocably denied. At the conclusion of the investigation, it would then be determined if the person should be allowed to purchase firearms or if they should be permanently banned from it (or perhaps imprisoned for a planned terror plot).

Similarly, anyone institutionalized in the past for mental illness should be required to get a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist's approval to purchase weapons -- at least for the first purchase since being institutionalized.

Finally, the gun show loophole, allowing people to avoid background checks, should be eliminated.

We must take action to at least make it more difficult for terrorists and mentally ill people to obtain powerful weaponry to commit mass murder. These measures will not completely stop mass shootings, and even complete gun control (which I am very against) would also fail to end mass killings. Remember, the Boston Marathon mass killing did not involve any guns.

However, right now it is too easy for guys like Omar Mateen to obtain weapons that allow them to quickly murder 50 people. There has to be at least some roadblock to this sort of thing.

[Mintjewlips]

Even after 9/11, these agencies aren't communicating.

Also you missed the part where the justice department is going after the FBI for "aggressive" investigations of muslims. Thats why this terrorist was able to obtain DHS clearance and riffles.

[limitles]

There is a lot of controversy since the Orlando shooting regarding the availability of weapons for terrorists and other mass shooters in the US.

One idea being pushed is to take away the rights to buy guys for anyone on the no fly list.

However, there are valid criticisms to this plan, given that the no-fly list is full of both false positives and common names. Laughably, even Senator Ted Kennedy had problems flying because the government had been told that some terrorists were going to fly under the name "T. Kennedy", and that prevented all Ted Kennedys from flying without intense questioning (even the Senator whose legal name was Edward!)

It amazes me that the no-fly list isn't attached to BOTH name and birthdate, so these mistakes don't happen, but apparently this is very common.

However, it's also ridiculous that a suspected terrorists like Omar Mateen was able to purchase high-powered weaponry without anyone blinking an eye. We've also had situations of mentally ill people managing to purchase firearms, and the committing mass shootings.

There is no easy solution to this.

However, I think that one solution would involve better communication between agencies.

If someone attempts to purchase weapons, and are on any sort of terror watch list, the organization which put them on the list should be contacted immediately, and that person should be investgated. While the investigation is occurring, the person's right to firearms should be frozen, but not irrevocably denied. At the conclusion of the investigation, it would then be determined if the person should be allowed to purchase firearms or if they should be permanently banned from it (or perhaps imprisoned for a planned terror plot).

Similarly, anyone institutionalized in the past for mental illness should be required to get a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist's approval to purchase weapons -- at least for the first purchase since being institutionalized.

Finally, the gun show loophole, allowing people to avoid background checks, should be eliminated.

We must take action to at least make it more difficult for terrorists and mentally ill people to obtain powerful weaponry to commit mass murder. These measures will not completely stop mass shootings, and even complete gun control (which I am very against) would also fail to end mass killings. Remember, the Boston Marathon mass killing did not involve any guns.

However, right now it is too easy for guys like Omar Mateen to obtain weapons that allow them to quickly murder 50 people. There has to be at least some roadblock to this sort of thing.

Controversy.....maybe not the right word. And I'd say the talk behind changes needed have been going on for several years as mass shootings have become an annual event. What difference does the latest one make compared to the ones before it? Not everyone who commits such an act wears a t-shirt advertising that they're about to snap.

So gun control has to be widespread. I know the chance of this happening is slim but how long can you explain away such stupidity?

Does the right to bear arms include nuclear weapons?

[MumblesBadly]

Even after 9/11, these agencies aren't communicating.

Also you missed the part where the justice department is going after the FBI for "aggressive" investigations of muslims. Thats why this terrorist was able to obtain DHS clearance and riffles.

I agree with Minty on this point. Unless the process is cookier-cutter simple, government agents are likely to fuck up in ways that routinely piss off public by flagging people who should be allowed to buy a gun, or let dangerous nut jobs like the Orlando shooter obtain them and cause carnage.

But there is an alternative to relying upon the government to do the heavy lifting to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous persons: Enlist the power of for-profit P&C insurance companies to 'police' the firearms industry due care in not selling weapons and/or ammo to dangerous persons.

How can that be done? Easy. Congress just needs to reform tort law to make any person or company that sells or distributes those products to dangerous persons bear a portion of the civil liability for the harm such persons impart on others using those products. Facing the civil liability risk, those involved in the gun trade would be clamoring to buy liability insurance to protect them against a potential civil lawsuit arising from an Orlando type incident involving weapons and/or ammo used the shooter(s).

And because P&C insurance cos won't sell affordable policies to gun dealers who don't have good background check practices to reduce the risk of their client selling weapons/ammos to the next terrorist/nutjob hellbent on perpetrating a public bloodbath. In turn, the need of gun industry merchants to demonstrate safe-to-the-public selling practices, those gun/ammo merchants would clamour for effective and demonstrable background check services.

And to prevent their highly profitable industry from going the way of the asbestos industry, the gun industry, with help from NRA, would most likely subsidize the development and availability of such background check services.

Think it won't work? Who do you think has been a mostly silent partner to the public calls for the tremendous improvements in automobile safety features (and sometimes intrusive and overbearing driving law) here in the US over the past century? If you guessed "insurance companies", give yourself a star and pat on the back.

And then dream the libertarian dream of a low-cost-to-the-government private-market solution to credibly and effectively reducing the risk of future terrorist/nut job mass-murder events ocurring within our borders.

P.S. In before handicapme ignorantly red reps me about 'googling' this.

[CrackPipes and Kakfights]

Druff: Really? I must take umbrage! The gun control question has been answered




Given you choice in bumper music there is no excuse for you to have ignored the wit and wisdom from the man at 704 Houses, Queens NY.

Astoria is Gods country.

[LarryLaffer]

this Orlando shooting was clearly the government fault. so it's not an issue on gun control. it's an issue of how fucking stupid our gvt really is and has been.

gun show loophole in all for closing, bc gun shows are a haven for white supremacists and other wackos to get together and exchange copies of the Turner Diaries. McVeigh was noted for traveling the gun show circuit and hawking copies of that book. gross. I'm getting off topic. So if closing that loop hole puts a few redbdck inbred dog shit Nazis out of business: SO BE IT.



that being said: the rest of all of this gun control debate is moot bc your politicians vote for money, and we don't have it like the gun lobbies do. remember, the world is a business.

[MumblesBadly]

this Orlando shooting was clearly the government fault. so it's not an issue on gun control. it's an issue of how fucking stupid our gvt really is and has been.

gun show loophole in all for closing, bc gun shows are a haven for white supremacists and other wackos to get together and exchange copies of the Turner Diaries. McVeigh was noted for traveling the gun show circuit and hawking copies of that book. gross. I'm getting off topic. So if closing that loop hole puts a few redbdck inbred dog shit Nazis out of business: SO BE IT.



that being said: the rest of all of this gun control debate is moot bc your politicians vote for money, and we don't have it like the gun lobbies do. remember, the world is a business.

And the business of too many members of Congress is to be stupid all the way to campaign contribution bank (funded by the NRA).

[ftpjesus]

If the FBI refuses to take action on a Muslim clown after investigating him 2X which included known contact with a suicide bomber then I don't know what to tell you.. Despite 2 FBI investigations this asshole kept his federal security clearance. This was flat out incompetence by the Feds who could've stopped this clown and chose not to.

Also interesting tinfoil hat story out that Mateen was trained at the CIA farm in SE Virginia along with the guy who was caught in California with all those guns and ammo hours later.. Dude in Cali claims he was trained with Mateen for 'the ops' and kept saying "Mateen was sacrificed for the mission" and that they trained in "teams of 3".. Anymore who knows what the hell to believe..

[GrenadaRoger]

gun show loophole in all for closing, bc gun shows are a haven for white supremacists and other wackos to get together and exchange copies of the Turner Diaries. McVeigh was noted for traveling the gun show circuit and hawking copies of that book. gross. I'm getting off topic. So if closing that loop hole puts a few redbdck inbred dog shit Nazis out of business: SO BE IT.

Well Larry, if you actually been to gun shows, then the ones you've been to are much different than the ones i've been to here in Southern California.

Of the several shows i've been to, there are a hundred or so vendors per show...yet never has there been more than one vendor selling books, and those books are mostly histories about firearms--i would agree with you that it is a mostly white male and older demographic, and not a group of people that would be scholarly oriented---but they are there not to talk politics, rather to buy guns and related merchandise such as cleaning supplies, range boxes, knives, night optics, firearm storage safes, hunting clothes, and ammunition. There is more other stuff than guns for sale at a typical show.

Indeed Larry, if you went you could get a camouflage patterned leisure suit 3 pieces polyester double knit to complete your wardrobe--they would even customize it by sewing pregnancy panels into the pants to accommodate your ever fluctuating waistline.

[MumblesBadly]

Bump (albeit she only took out two people.)

[sah_24]

Spoons made me fat ! ! !

Easy to say we have so many mass shootings when we now include any time 2 or more people are INJURED and we even include the shooter. So if I shoot and kill Mumbles and then kill myself, the libtards say that is a MASS SHOOTING !

We have reached thought crimes . . . no due process, no jury of your peers, just arbitrary lists to take rights away. Whats next arbitrary lists for the 1st amendment ?

Liberals will never stop until we become Nazi Germany and their gestappo is running around and taking out all their opposition . . .

[MumblesBadly]

Spoons made me fat ! ! !

Easy to say we have so many mass shootings when we now include any time 2 or more people are INJURED and we even include the shooter. So if I shoot and kill Mumbles and then kill myself, the libtards say that is a MASS SHOOTING !

We have reached thought crimes . . . no due process, no jury of your peers, just arbitrary lists to take rights away. Whats next arbitrary lists for the 1st amendment ?

Liberals will never stop until we become Nazi Germany and their gestappo is running around and taking out all their opposition . . .

Libtards like Ronald Reagan?



'Cause rhe way this woman was so nuts about guns (and FFS, just look at her face in that pic!), she was clearly mentally ill.

P.S. And prolly in that time of the month (a double MI power-up).

[LarryLaffer]

libtards=Nazis huh.



yeah bc Donald Trump and his Mexican Wall rhetoric is so liberal. gtfo with that shit.