Thread: Time to get on the TRUMP train

  1. #35081
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    you're completely delusional. absolutely nothing will ever come of this.

    you know why the DOJ's success rate is something like 99%? they don't prosecute cases with "difficult questions of law and fact" (per mueller). they only prosecute absolute slam dunks.

    if you think they will ever pursue obstruction charges against trump where there was no underlying crime, you're just nuts
    The DOJ won’t pursue prosecuting Trump on *any* charges because of the extant DOJ memo saying that a sitting president can’t be prosecuted. But if the Dems wins the presidency back next year, you can bet that the Dems and Never-Trump Republicans will clamor for the DOJ to pursue such charges in order to send a signal to future presidents to not fuck around in that manner. Even if the DOJ isn’t guaranteed a slam dunk, the prosecutiom of Trump will further disgrace Trump *and* reverse the trend of the DOJ giving bad-acting prior presidents a pass after they’ve committed serious abuses of their office.

    Oh, and there *were* underlying crimes. Michael Flynn didn’t plead guilty to not paying his parking tickets. Cohen plead guilty, and 10 more indictments have resulted from this investigation.

    ya ppl will think trump is a total loser if the government is wasting time frying him for being right about not doing what he was accused of. being 100% wrong takes a real piece of work, well done

  2. #35082
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    in YOUR mind yes, trump will look like whatever the tv wants u to think of him cuz u are a propaganda guzzler

  3. #35083
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    no ones prosecuting shit because we dont have enough prisons to deal with a second civil war, and if we cant vote trump out of office in 18 months we deserve everything thats coming to us.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  4. #35084
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    obviously what the 2nd district of ny does in 18 months and a fucking day is beyond the scope of this convo.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  5. #35085
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    you're completely delusional. absolutely nothing will ever come of this.

    you know why the DOJ's success rate is something like 99%? they don't prosecute cases with "difficult questions of law and fact" (per mueller). they only prosecute absolute slam dunks.

    if you think they will ever pursue obstruction charges against trump where there was no underlying crime, you're just nuts
    The DOJ won’t pursue prosecuting Trump on *any* charges because of the extant DOJ memo saying that a sitting president can’t be prosecuted. But if the Dems wins the presidency back next year, you can bet that the Dems and Never-Trump Republicans will clamor for the DOJ to pursue such charges in order to send a signal to future presidents to not fuck around in that manner. Even if the DOJ isn’t guaranteed a slam dunk, the prosecutiom of Trump will further disgrace Trump *and* reverse the trend of the DOJ giving bad-acting prior presidents a pass after they’ve committed serious abuses of their office.
    again, you're so delusional here it's scary.

    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Oh, and there *were* underlying crimes. Michael Flynn didn’t plead guilty to not paying his parking tickets. Cohen plead guilty, and 10 more indictments have resulted from this investigation.
    the investigation that trump may have "obstructed" was one into whether or not he engaged in a criminal conspiracy with russia -- not manafort's bank fraud, cohen's fraud or the other process crimes that occurred (like flynn's).

    this is the same criminal conspiracy that mueller said never happened.

    so, to the extent that trump obstructed the russian conspiracy investigation, he knew that that it never occurred. can you have a "corrupt intent" if you know there's nothing to cover up? good luck getting support for that prosecution

  6. #35086
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    this is the same criminal conspiracy that mueller said never happened.

    minor point;

    mueller said there the baseline requirements for charges were not met, not that it never happened.

    trump scrambling to abort every investigation before they started while begging his hand picked intel agency chiefs to whitewash his bona fide tell a very different story.

     
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      blake: fair enough
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  7. #35087
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    no ones prosecuting shit because we dont have enough prisons to deal with a second civil war, and if we cant vote trump out of office in 18 months we deserve everything thats coming to us.
    That’s beautiful trademark ‘tine

    You still got your fastball. Shame it’s buried in here

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  9. #35089
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    definitely not something a senile dictator would say.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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  11. #35091
    Plutonium big dick's Avatar
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    aren't you getting a little bored of this Trump and libtard stuff dish? I have pretty much lost interest and it isn't because my side lost it's just gotten stale.
    I barely even pay attn to this shit until mid 2019 or so

  12. #35092
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    aren't you getting a little bored of this Trump and libtard stuff dish? I have pretty much lost interest and it isn't because my side lost it's just gotten stale.
    I barely even pay attn to this shit until mid 2019 or so

    yes small dick, politics is only interesting for me bout 1-2 days a week lately

  13. #35093
    Feelin' Stronger Every Day tony bagadonuts's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to prove obstruction when there's no underlying crime.

    Not impossible, but very, very difficult.

  14. #35094
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post
    The bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to prove obstruction when there's no underlying crime.

    Not impossible, but very, very difficult.
    Obstruction of justice explicitly doesn't require an underlying crime or intent of masking a criminal act. Obstructing an investigation for any reason counts. Some people obstruct justice because they don;t want personal shit to come out. The motivation doesn't need to be criminal.

     
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      MumblesBadly: :this

  15. #35095
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post
    The bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to prove obstruction when there's no underlying crime.

    Not impossible, but very, very difficult.
    Obstruction of justice explicitly doesn't require an underlying crime or intent of masking a criminal act. Obstructing an investigation for any reason counts. Some people obstruct justice because they don;t want personal shit to come out. The motivation doesn't need to be criminal.
    the statute is very vague, but the motivation needs to be "corrupt".

    in other words, if trump fired comey because he was afraid comey would uncover trump's criminal activities = corrupt.

    if trump fired comey because he thought the whole investigation was illegal and done for the purpose of undermining his presidency = not corrupt

    there's a lot of grey here and the statute doesn't define what "corrupt" means.

  16. #35096
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post

    Obstruction of justice explicitly doesn't require an underlying crime or intent of masking a criminal act. Obstructing an investigation for any reason counts. Some people obstruct justice because they don;t want personal shit to come out. The motivation doesn't need to be criminal.
    the statute is very vague, but the motivation needs to be "corrupt".

    in other words, if trump fired comey because he was afraid comey would uncover trump's criminal activities = corrupt.

    if trump fired comey because he thought the whole investigation was illegal and done for the purpose of undermining his presidency = not corrupt

    there's a lot of grey here and the statute doesn't define what "corrupt" means.
    Even if Trump himself did nothing wrong, the president can’t use the power of the office to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution even if he is not knowledgable of what illegal things those cronies did. That the investigation resulted in criminal indictments and at least two convictions is prima facie evidence that Trump’s cronies had indeed committed illegal acts that Trump generally didn’t want them to be held accountable for even if he wasn’t aware beforehand what those specific illegal activities were.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  17. #35097
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    the statute is very vague, but the motivation needs to be "corrupt".

    in other words, if trump fired comey because he was afraid comey would uncover trump's criminal activities = corrupt.

    if trump fired comey because he thought the whole investigation was illegal and done for the purpose of undermining his presidency = not corrupt

    there's a lot of grey here and the statute doesn't define what "corrupt" means.
    Even if Trump himself did nothing wrong, the president can’t use the power of the office to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution even if he is not knowledgable of what illegal things those cronies did. That the investigation resulted in criminal indictments and at least two convictions is prima facie evidence that Trump’s cronies had indeed committed illegal acts that Trump generally didn’t want them to be held accountable for even if he wasn’t aware beforehand what those specific illegal activities were.
    you assume trump fired comey and wanted to fire mueller "to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution."

    trump would say, "no, i wanted them fired cause the investigation was a witch hunt, designed to fuck with my presidency."

    if you believe his explanation is plausible, there is no obstruction. at least not beyond a reasonable doubt

    this is why the fact that mueller didn't find evidence of a conspiracy is so important. it makes his explanation more believable. a juror might think, "why would he try to prevent prosecution for crimes he knows didn't happen?"

  18. #35098
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    im legit starting to wonder if trump fired comey because he couldnt stand the thought of comey not being an errand boy and that it had nothing to do with fear of an investigation beyond the fact that any investigation is going to instantly become the theme song to every moment of his life because he stupidly put a stick in the media's eye.


    because he's literally got the judgement of a toddler.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  19. #35099
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Even if Trump himself did nothing wrong, the president can’t use the power of the office to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution even if he is not knowledgable of what illegal things those cronies did. That the investigation resulted in criminal indictments and at least two convictions is prima facie evidence that Trump’s cronies had indeed committed illegal acts that Trump generally didn’t want them to be held accountable for even if he wasn’t aware beforehand what those specific illegal activities were.
    you assume trump fired comey and wanted to fire mueller "to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution."

    trump would say, "no, i wanted them fired cause the investigation was a witch hunt, designed to fuck with my presidency."

    if you believe his explanation is plausible, there is no obstruction. at least not beyond a reasonable doubt

    this is why the fact that mueller didn't find evidence of a conspiracy is so important. it makes his explanation more believable. a juror might think, "why would he try to prevent prosecution for crimes he knows didn't happen?"
    Given Trump’s history of doing shady shit with shady people, it is ludicrous to believe that Trump was believing that his close political allies subject to that investigation were innocent of any crimes and was merely paranoid that it was a political witch hunt.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  20. #35100
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    you assume trump fired comey and wanted to fire mueller "to protect his cronies from investigation and prosecution."

    trump would say, "no, i wanted them fired cause the investigation was a witch hunt, designed to fuck with my presidency."

    if you believe his explanation is plausible, there is no obstruction. at least not beyond a reasonable doubt

    this is why the fact that mueller didn't find evidence of a conspiracy is so important. it makes his explanation more believable. a juror might think, "why would he try to prevent prosecution for crimes he knows didn't happen?"
    Given Trump’s history of doing shady shit with shady people, it is ludicrous to believe that Trump was believing that his close political allies subject to that investigation were innocent of any crimes and merely paranoid that it was a political witch hunt.
    i mean, the purpose of the investigation was to determine if trump's team conspired with russia, and mueller says there's no evidence that happened -- which trump would obviously have known too, so.....

    maybe not so ludicrous that trump wasn't worried about that investigation?

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