Time to get on the TRUMP train

[blake]

Still waiting for anyone to come up with any proof that political correctness has caused significant damage to anything. I don't think it's remarkably useful, but i don't see it too harmful either.

this is truly lunacy to me.

i think you'd concede (or conceded, i'm not even sure tbh) that conservatives can't express their viewpoints the same way that liberals can in the US. yet you seem to take the position that their inability to do so is no big deal -- not every "pleb" needs to have his opinion heard? something like that?

most people would say that the inability to speak freely, in and of itself, constitutes "significant damage." when you limit speech, you limit debate, you lose control.

would you like more examples?

why don't you go on facebook right now and say you're against gay marriage. let us know how that works out for you. let us know if you're still employed in the morning.

would you believe that as recently as 2011 -- President Obama was publicly against it?

2011.

like 1700 days ago, give or take.

what was once publicly stated by the liberal president of the united states is now forbidden thought in this country.

(and i'm fine with gay marriage. it's just crazy to me how quickly the outrage police can legislate thought in this country.)

[blake]

i keep doing these examples to show that it's not just one or two subjects that are taboo, but all "conservative" thought.

fun fact, according to gallup, the U.S. is evenly split pro-choice and pro-life.

nevertheless, if i went on facebook and said i was proudly pro-choice, i'd get 1,000,000 likes and a bunch of supporting comments. my pro-life friends would say nothing and have no reaction.

if i said i was proudly pro-life, i'd be de-friended by nearly all of my pro-choice friends and likely shot. (i'm pro-choice btw)

am i exaggerating? maybe i wouldn't be shot, but i'd def be shunned.

this is not equal. let's stop pretending that "both sides" are equally guilty. they're not. if they are where you live, i think i need to move there.

[MumblesBadly]

i keep doing these examples to show that it's not just one or two subjects that are taboo, but all "conservative" thought.

fun fact, according to gallup, the U.S. is evenly split pro-choice and pro-life.

nevertheless, if i went on facebook and said i was proudly pro-choice, i'd get 1,000,000 likes and a bunch of supporting comments. my pro-life friends would say nothing and have no reaction.

if i said i was proudly pro-life, i'd be de-friended by nearly all of my pro-choice friends and likely shot. (i'm pro-choice btw)

am i exaggerating? maybe i wouldn't be shot, but i'd def be shunned.

this is not equal. let's stop pretending that "both sides" are equally guilty. they're not. if they are where you live, i think i need to move there.

Your own hypothesized experience on social media is specific to social “silo” you inhabit given that your are pro-choice. If you were an avid pro-life conservative Christian, you most likely wouldn’t have a lot of FB friends who were pro-choice, but a ton who were pro-life. And if you suddenly announced on FB that you had changed your mind and turned pro-choice, you could expect a flood of comments from pro-lifers in that FB silo to bombard you with comments explaining how you were supporting genocide on the unborn. And that would be before most of them, if they weren’t relatives and felt obligated to stay connected with you on FB, would probably unfriend you after their entreaties to you to stop supporting immorality and indiscrimant baby killing failed to turn you away from giving in to Satan.

[gimmick]

Still waiting for anyone to come up with any proof that political correctness has caused significant damage to anything. I don't think it's remarkably useful, but i don't see it too harmful either.

this is truly lunacy to me.

i think you'd concede (or conceded, i'm not even sure tbh) that conservatives can't express their viewpoints the same way that liberals can in the US. yet you seem to take the position that their inability to do so is no big deal -- not every "pleb" needs to have his opinion heard? something like that?

most people would say that the inability to speak freely, in and of itself, constitutes "significant damage." when you limit speech, you limit debate, you lose control.

would you like more examples?

why don't you go on facebook right now and say you're against gay marriage. let us know how that works out for you. let us know if you're still employed in the morning.

would you believe that as recently as 2011 -- President Obama was publicly against it?

2011.

like 1700 days ago, give or take.

what was once publicly stated by the liberal president of the united states is now forbidden thought in this country.

(and i'm fine with gay marriage. it's just crazy to me how quickly the outrage police can legislate thought in this country.)

My "concession" was that conservatives are more afraid to express their views. Fear is subjective. Cause of fear isn't. I don't know should they be more afraid than the left and the actual concrete evidence of the damage it causes doesn't appear to exist. Sorry. Don't be afraid of your own shadow maybe.

Time when people have felt they can freely express themselves hasn't ever existed. Let me repeat that in another way. Speech has always been limited. Self-censorship has always existed. It isn't inherently a bad thing.

What is that an example of?

I don't know what, joining to Facebook and seeking gainful employment where my employer that isn't me, proves. The sounds like an awfully lengthy process and a likely pay cut. Do i also need to create contacts to hundreds of people i don't care about in Facebook?

[gimmick]

i keep doing these examples to show that it's not just one or two subjects that are taboo, but all "conservative" thought.

fun fact, according to gallup, the U.S. is evenly split pro-choice and pro-life.

nevertheless, if i went on facebook and said i was proudly pro-choice, i'd get 1,000,000 likes and a bunch of supporting comments. my pro-life friends would say nothing and have no reaction.

if i said i was proudly pro-life, i'd be de-friended by nearly all of my pro-choice friends and likely shot. (i'm pro-choice btw)

am i exaggerating? maybe i wouldn't be shot, but i'd def be shunned.

this is not equal. let's stop pretending that "both sides" are equally guilty. they're not. if they are where you live, i think i need to move there.

What Mumbles said. I doubt you couldn't find conservative pockets where opposite is true.

https://www.cato.org/blog/poll-71-am...s-have-58-have

I don't cosign all that many conclusions from that report, but even Cato institute has no problem admitting that different forms of censorship affect both sides.

As a fun random fact i've drank with neo-nazis and members of Antifa. I didn't really see it as a huge problem that i kept some of my political beliefs to myself when interacting with neo-nazis. I can live with that.

[blake]

this is truly lunacy to me.

i think you'd concede (or conceded, i'm not even sure tbh) that conservatives can't express their viewpoints the same way that liberals can in the US. yet you seem to take the position that their inability to do so is no big deal -- not every "pleb" needs to have his opinion heard? something like that?

most people would say that the inability to speak freely, in and of itself, constitutes "significant damage." when you limit speech, you limit debate, you lose control.

would you like more examples?

why don't you go on facebook right now and say you're against gay marriage. let us know how that works out for you. let us know if you're still employed in the morning.

would you believe that as recently as 2011 -- President Obama was publicly against it?

2011.

like 1700 days ago, give or take.

what was once publicly stated by the liberal president of the united states is now forbidden thought in this country.

(and i'm fine with gay marriage. it's just crazy to me how quickly the outrage police can legislate thought in this country.)

My "concession" was that conservatives are more afraid to express their views. Fear is subjective. Cause of fear isn't. I don't know should they be more afraid than the left and the actual concrete evidence of the damage it causes doesn't appear to exist. Sorry. Don't be afraid of your own shadow maybe.

you have a unique ability to respond without responding.

i'm gonna try to get your position in a yes or no. is it your contention that the "outrage machine" is equal on both sides? put another way, that one should expect equal blowback from stating liberal and conservative views?

[blake]

I don't know what, joining to Facebook and seeking gainful employment where my employer that isn't me, proves. The sounds like an awfully lengthy process and a likely pay cut. Do i also need to create contacts to hundreds of people i don't care about in Facebook?

i've given you lots of examples of where espousing traditional conservative views would subject the speaker to persecution, where it would not if the speaker instead chose to state liberal ones.

each time, you have either ignored these questions, or in most instances, willfully refused to respond, often making painful jokes like above.

why do you think that is?

pro tip for debate btw, concession is the most persuasive tool you can use when done properly

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

I should stay outta this because politics just give me a headache...

but blake is 100% right about his conservatives afraid to express their opinions...proof is really easy...how many polls was trump ahead of Hillary in the months/days leading up to the election? my recollection is none or very few...why? because nobody who was voting for trump wanted to express that opinion (even to a pollster) for "fear" of having to have a 30 minute conversation defending why they were voting for him...but everybody and their mother who was voting for Hillary was expressing that in the streets or on social media...

[gimmick]

I don't know what, joining to Facebook and seeking gainful employment where my employer that isn't me, proves. The sounds like an awfully lengthy process and a likely pay cut. Do i also need to create contacts to hundreds of people i don't care about in Facebook?

i've given you lots of examples of where espousing traditional conservative views would subject the speaker to persecution, where it would not if the speaker instead chose to state liberal ones.

each time, you have either ignored these questions, or in most instances, willfully refused to respond, often making painful jokes like above.

why do you think that is?

pro tip for debate btw, concession is the most persuasive tool you can use when done properly

"I doubt you couldn't find conservative pockets where opposite is true." Was that not precise enough?

Do you think it's a problem that in liberal social group you choose not to express conservative views? Or do you really think that opposite doesn't happen at all?

My random fact about drinking with neo-nazis is an example of the opposite. I don't know what would happen if i expressed liberal views, but i prefer not to poke the bear.

[blake]

i've given you lots of examples of where espousing traditional conservative views would subject the speaker to persecution, where it would not if the speaker instead chose to state liberal ones.

each time, you have either ignored these questions, or in most instances, willfully refused to respond, often making painful jokes like above.

why do you think that is?

pro tip for debate btw, concession is the most persuasive tool you can use when done properly

"I doubt you couldn't find conservative pockets where opposite is true." Was that not precise enough?

fair enough, i guess you really think it's equal. i'm a bit shocked by that. i thought even the far far left conceded my point. we just see the world entirely differently. your world seems a lot better than mine. congrats

[blake]

and gimmick, you once asked for proof of any "significant damage" political correctness caused?


i thought of one

 

[blake]

I should stay outta this because politics just give me a headache...

but blake is 100% right about his conservatives afraid to express their opinions...proof is really easy...how many polls was trump ahead of Hillary in the months/days leading up to the election? my recollection is none or very few...why? because nobody who was voting for trump wanted to express that opinion (even to a pollster) for "fear" of having to have a 30 minute conversation defending why they were voting for him...but everybody and their mother who was voting for Hillary was expressing that in the streets or on social media...

i believe gimmick's retort would be that said fear is entirely "irrational," even if it's held by 50,000,000 people.

[gimmick]

My "concession" was that conservatives are more afraid to express their views. Fear is subjective. Cause of fear isn't. I don't know should they be more afraid than the left and the actual concrete evidence of the damage it causes doesn't appear to exist. Sorry. Don't be afraid of your own shadow maybe.

you have a unique ability to respond without responding.

i'm gonna try to get your position in a yes or no. is it your contention that the "outrage machine" is equal on both sides? put another way, that one should expect equal blowback from stating liberal and conservative views?

Dunno. Is vehicular manslaughter a problem for conservatives expressing their views? Do conservatives often get shot for existing? Is conservative bashing a thing? I don't know what weight we should give these vs possibly losing your job or being defriended in social media.

Don't you find it strange after all these years right hasn't even once tried to "fix" political correctness? I have never heard a single thing how to remedy this. To me that's kinda weird when it's an issue they've brought up over and over.

[RS_]

I should stay outta this because politics just give me a headache...

but blake is 100% right about his conservatives afraid to express their opinions...proof is really easy...how many polls was trump ahead of Hillary in the months/days leading up to the election? my recollection is none or very few...why? because nobody who was voting for trump wanted to express that opinion (even to a pollster) for "fear" of having to have a 30 minute conversation defending why they were voting for him...but everybody and their mother who was voting for Hillary was expressing that in the streets or on social media...

Exactly this.

I remember meeting some people prior to this last election. I don’t like to bring up politics because it’s boring. But oftentimes other people would. They’d ask who I’m voting for. I’d say idk, what about you? They’d go off on a rant about how “evil” trump is and supposedly a sexist, rapist, racist, xenophobic, and every other liberal buzz word. So yeah, it’s much easier just to say “meh, idk” so they don’t get extra crazy.

Several people on Facebook wrote something like “Anyone who(m?) I find out is voting for trump....they’re not going to be my friend anymore.” How somebody can possibly think like that is beyond me. Sure, I think....err.... I know* Hillary is a witch, but I’m not going to ostracize or shun someone for voting for her. That’s just beyond absurd.

Someone else was listing off all the reasons why Trump is “such a bad person” (buzz words listed above). I politely asked why she felt that way about Trump and was met with a barrage of outcries and people calling me a racist and whatever else.

I remember talking to people before the first Obama presidency and plenty were saying they were voting for Obama (or supported him, if they weren’t 18+) because he was black. Everyone cheered on this sentiment because of inclusion of whatever those fucks think. They’d ask me who I support or plan to vote for and I facetiously said McCain because he’s white. Plenty of outrage there. Even after explaining the facetious comment and how it’s hypocritical to call me a racist when they said the same thing, it was met with more bullshit about “you just hate black people, I support equality!”

Can’t take most liberals seriously. Smh

[gimmick]

I should stay outta this because politics just give me a headache...

but blake is 100% right about his conservatives afraid to express their opinions...proof is really easy...how many polls was trump ahead of Hillary in the months/days leading up to the election? my recollection is none or very few...why? because nobody who was voting for trump wanted to express that opinion (even to a pollster) for "fear" of having to have a 30 minute conversation defending why they were voting for him...but everybody and their mother who was voting for Hillary was expressing that in the streets or on social media...

i believe gimmick's retort would be that said fear is entirely "irrational," even if it's held by 50,000,000 people.

Is that why the polls were almost even before the election? Because no one said they support Trump. And horrible things happened to those that dared say they do.

How do you get 50/50 when everyone is afraid? I can think of 2 ways. They aren't or that all Trump supporter say they'll vote Hillary and Hillary voters say they'll vote Trump out of perfectly rational fear.

[gimmick]

"I doubt you couldn't find conservative pockets where opposite is true." Was that not precise enough?

fair enough, i guess you really think it's equal. i'm a bit shocked by that. i thought even the far far left conceded my point. we just see the world entirely differently. your world seems a lot better than mine. congrats

I think closest thing i said was that they could be equal.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ated/11280769/

Do you have any suggestions for how much excommunication is worth in lost facebook friends and what's the exchange ratio of that when you're just afraid you would lose facebook friends?

Say when your eternal soul is condemned to dark pits of hell for expressing liberal views is that equivalent to losing 7 friends on facebook for expressing conservative views?

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

i believe gimmick's retort would be that said fear is entirely "irrational," even if it's held by 50,000,000 people.

Is that why the polls were almost even before the election? Because no one said they support Trump. And horrible things happened to those that dared say they do.

How do you get 50/50 when everyone is afraid? I can think of 2 ways. They aren't or that all Trump supporter say they'll vote Hillary and Hillary voters say they'll vote Trump out of perfectly rational fear.

again I don't claim to know politics or if this is a reputable website or not...I wouldn't claim that the polls in the week(s) leading up to the election was even...trump was a clear dog in not only these polls, but the betting markets as well if memory serves...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...nton-5491.html

[gimmick]

again I don't claim to know politics or if this is a reputable website or not...I wouldn't claim that the polls in the week(s) leading up to the election was even...trump was a clear dog in not only these polls, but the betting markets as well if memory serves...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...nton-5491.html

Yea i remember it something like that and that the direction had long been that Trump was gaining votes. Comey thing came few weeks before the election.

Trump was a clear dog, but there were plenty of people that very proudly had stated they supported him. In the end among the undecided Trump gained significantly more votes than Hillary. Meaning you're likely correct that there were a lot of undecided voters that either intentionally avoided saying their support or later converted. In the last polls there was maybe 5-10% undecided out of total votes (early polls maybe 20-30%).

[MumblesBadly]

And in more international news highlighting how ridiculous my country’s reputation around the world has become...

London mayor approves baby Trump blimp to fly over city during visit
http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...n-during-visit

[ErickAA]

And in more international news highlighting how ridiculous my country’s reputation around the world has become...

London mayor approves baby Trump blimp to fly over city during visit
http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...n-during-visit

I think that is more of an indication how low standards of civility have gone in the US and Britain. But obviously Trump is a very big part of the civility problem, so hard to feel too indignant or sympathetic towards him.