go walk through a black neighborhood at nightOriginally Posted by The_Lurker
go walk through a black neighborhood at night
the only deductible mentioned in that article that could effect some middle class taxpayers is the medical expense deduction, and even then, they only say that it would hurt people paying huge medical expenses.
It eliminates a lot of deductibles that middle class families rely on, for starters.
This makes for a pleasant read:
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...-capital-wages
the truth is this bill has winners and losers.
key winners:
Heirs and heiresses: The bill raises from $5.5 million to $10 million the exemption in the estate tax next year, so estates worth less than that would not be taxed. The tax is repealed entirely in six years. This change amounts to 10% of the lost revenue, or $151 billion over the coming decade.
Low- and moderate-income taxpayers with children and no deductions: They avoid any losses from the bill's elimination of deductions and credits, and would benefit from the increase in the standard deduction from $12,700 this year to $24,400 next year. An increase in the child tax credit from $1,000 to $1,600, and a new credit of $300 each for a taxpayer, spouse and non-child dependent — like a parent — would offset the elimination of personal exemptions, which this year are worth $4,050 each.
losers:
The sick: The bill eliminates a deduction for medical and dental expenses that exceed 7.5% of their incomes. In 2015, there were 8.8 million taxpayers who deducted $87 million.
Residents of high-tax regions: Wealthy states such as New Jersey, New York and California as well as pockets of suburbs around the country could find that the loss of deductions eliminate any benefit from lower tax rates. The bill eliminates the deduction for state income taxes, caps the property tax deduction at $10,000, and on new mortgages, only allows a deduction for interest on the first $500,000 borrowed.
College students: Student loan interest would no longer be deductible. And many universities offer free tuition and a stipend to graduate students who work as teachers or researchers. Currently, only the stipend is taxable, but the would make the tuition a taxable benefit too.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...use/874622001/
Do middle class families really use itemized deductions? Pretty sure the vast majority take the standard deduction, which is getting doubled.
This article mostly complains about corporations and income inequality, which is an issue, but an altogether different one. The only things I see here screwing the little guy are some income reclassifications
Which is bullshit, to be fair, but doesn't affect everyone or even necessarily outweigh the savings.Republicans also want to treat graduate education tuition reimbursements as income, hitting higher education institutions — home to both climate scientists and the “politically correct” anti-right — hard. Union dues would suddenly become taxable income. The fees extracted by tax preparers, who stand between low-income people and the earned income tax credit, aren’t deductible under their plan.
The bill also is very hard on "main street" and very good to "wall street"
If you are making a house payment or have a big medical year the standard deduction doesn't even come close. the list of proposed eliminated deductions is IMO approaching criminal.
I am all for tax reform, but this bill is nothing but smoke and mirrors, and only helps the richest of the rich.
Last edited by The_Lurker; 11-19-2017 at 05:59 PM.
Sorry, what? You're making no sense. Not everyone has huge medical bills. When people say the poor-to-middle classes are getting screwed, are they really just referring to a small % of them? How is it only the richest of the rich benefiting when zero of them will be taking advantage of the standard deduction increase and the base tax rate is being reduced in almost every bracket?
If you are making a house payment or have a big medical year the standard deduction doesn't even come close. the list of proposed eliminated deductions is IMO approaching criminal.
I am all for tax reform, but this bill is nothing but smoke and mirrors, and only helps the richest of the rich.
I don't understand why you would even bring up the mortgage interest deduction. It seems to only affect rich people. If you own a house worth less than $750k, you're better off taking the new standard deduction if my napkin math is correct.
Last edited by SrslySirius; 11-19-2017 at 06:20 PM.
Sorry, what? You're making no sense. Not everyone has huge medical bills. When people say the poor-to-middle classes are getting screwed, are they really just referring to a small % of them? How is it only the richest of the rich benefiting when zero of them will be taking advantage of the standard deduction increase and the base tax rate is being reduced in almost every bracket?
I don't understand why you would even bring up the mortgage interest deduction. It seems to only affect rich people. If you own a house worth less than $750k, you're better off taking the new standard deduction if my napkin math is correct.
Get your napkin out and do the math on the change in total taxes between a 75k and a 7.5 million family
I don't care how much a 7.5 million family pays. This is some piss-poor rhetoric.
I don't care how much a 7.5 million family pays. This is some piss-poor rhetoric.
Well then you should support this.
My napkin says that Mrs. Sirius and I stand to save many thousands of dollars with this proposed bill, and nobody in this thread has presented any evidence to the contrary, so I'm leaning pretty heavily the other way.
My napkin says that Mrs. Sirius and I stand to save many thousands of dollars with this proposed bill, and nobody in this thread has presented any evidence to the contrary, so I'm leaning pretty heavily the other way.
I am also going to save, and I think this bill is criminal. really fucking criminal
Face it, you drank the koolaid. good luck with that. You are so concerned with your own situation, you are blind to the total net sum.
Relax, I'm just making fun. Actually, it's pertinent to what I'm about to say.
If the reality is that the bill will save some money for most of the poor and middle class, a shitload of money for the very wealthy, and totally fuck over a small number of vulnerable Americans, an overall net loss...
Then why don't you just say that? Why the intellectual dishonesty? Why the hyperbole and histrionics, confusing people like me and making us take extra steps to learn that you were full of shit?
Maybe I am willing to sacrifice some wealth for the greater good. You could have tried giving me that option instead of duping me.
I'm not singling you out, Lurker, but the bill's opposition in general.
Relax, I'm just making fun. Actually, it's pertinent to what I'm about to say.
If the reality is that the bill will save some money for most of the poor and middle class, a shitload of money for the very wealthy, and totally fuck over a small number of vulnerable Americans, an overall net loss...
Then why don't you just say that? Why the intellectual dishonesty? Why the hyperbole and histrionics, confusing people like me and making us take extra steps to learn that you were full of shit?
Maybe I am willing to sacrifice some wealth for the greater good. You could have tried giving me that option instead of duping me.
Really bad read. I am a saver that also has a pretty profitable business model, and I will be fine no matter what they do to the tax code. I am more concerned for my employees. I believe they shoulder too much of the burden.
And this is exactly why Hillary lost.Relax, I'm just making fun. Actually, it's pertinent to what I'm about to say.
If the reality is that the bill will save some money for most of the poor and middle class, a shitload of money for the very wealthy, and totally fuck over a small number of vulnerable Americans, an overall net loss...
Then why don't you just say that? Why the intellectual dishonesty? Why the hyperbole and histrionics, confusing people like me and making us take extra steps to learn that you were full of shit?
Maybe I am willing to sacrifice some wealth for the greater good. You could have tried giving me that option instead of duping me.
I'm not singling you out, Lurker, but the bill's opposition in general.
The rhetoric (rederick?) from the left during the 2016 election was: Violent crime hasn't gone up, Obamacare hasn't caused people's premiums to skyrocket, manufacturing jobs haven't been lost, Hillary isn't dishonest and is just a victim of a right-wing attack conspiracy, Muslims aren't more likely to be terrorists than anyone else, all cops are racists who attack innocent black people, and you're a racist and homophobe yourself if you don't immediately apologize for your white, heterosexual privilege.
Swing voters asked, "Wtf is this shit?" and voted for Trump, despite his obvious problems.
I see the left still hasn't learned from this, and they believe that hyperbole is still the way to go.
The change in the estate tax is 100% correct and fair, though, and should have been done 15 years ago when Republicans tried to reform it, but arrogantly made the reform temporary because they believed they would never fall out of power (lol).
It is double taxation, and it's wrong. All other forms of double taxation (sales tax, property tax, etc) come from voluntary actions. Death is not a voluntary action. It is not fair that you have to pay a high tax rate on your income and then get taxed at an even higher rate on the remaining money when you die.
Furthermore, there are too many loopholes which allow avoidance of that tax anyway, so anyone who really wants to get around it can do so. The ones benefiting most from the estate tax are estate planning attorneys and insurance companies. These loopholes would also be difficult to close without breaking other things.
It also creates huge problems for family businesses (especially large ones), where you're absolutely fucked if you created a successful business and never bothered to turn it into a corporation. This is because inherited businesses are considered assets. Same with real estate and basically everything else.
People used to have to sell inherited family farms due to this obnoxious tax, until they wrote in an exception for that, but tons of other family businesses get fucked.
Whole tax is an unfair mess and needs to be dropped.
What about the government revenue lost? It's actually not all that much in the grand scheme of things, and if it's really a problem, that burden can be shifted in places where it's much more fair (such as closing some really bad tax loopholes which many of the rich are utilizing).
SMH, Thank you Fox news.
How? Please be specific. You've only mentioned mortgage interest and medical deductions. Is there more to it, or do all of your employees have AIDS and live in mansions?
Tell me where I'm wrong.
SMH, Thank you Fox news.
Why is the estate tax a good thing?
Just because it punishes rich people?
And not all rich people, but only those who didn't bother incorporating their businesses and didn't do estate planning?
When I get my inheritance, I'm getting the oil changed in my Mercury Cougar, full fucking synthetic. also the air filter
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