Thread: Time to get on the TRUMP train

  1. #20081
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post

    nah. liberals are just horribly selfish humans who think they are the center of the universe and think everything needs to be for their benefit at all times. gotta give trump some time. took 1.5 years to know if Obama was not who he said he was. turns out he was just a talentless loser that couldnt do anything besides talk out his ass so he had to merge into the swamp.

    i can totally see why you would feel that way, given that no one with better than a public high school education takes you seriously.


    drain the swamp lol dude.. who do you think got him elected?

    WHAT? is this a Russia joke??

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    Diamond hongkonger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    i can totally see why you would feel that way, given that no one with better than a public high school education takes you seriously.


    drain the swamp lol dude.. who do you think got him elected?

    WHAT? is this a Russia joke??
    Send you back to Russia
    HILLARY WON

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkonger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post


    WHAT? is this a Russia joke??
    Send you back to Russia

    "all the Russia stuff is true"

    "huma abedin is a great advisor"

     
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      Tellafriend: Huma lol. What were her qualifications again

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    COUNTRY UNDER LIBERAL CONTROL


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    Master of Props Daly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiganer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hongkonger View Post

    Oh really, dumbass? The U.S. is the only country in the industrialized world that DOESN'T guarantee health care.
    And manages to spend a far greater of its GDP on healthcare than countries with "socialised healthcare" for worse outcomes.
    Well, yes. That and the fact that the US health care system is the best in the world by a factor of 10.

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    Master of Props Daly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post

    nah. liberals are just horribly selfish humans who think they are the center of the universe and think everything needs to be for their benefit at all times. gotta give trump some time. took 1.5 years to know if Obama was not who he said he was. turns out he was just a talentless loser that couldnt do anything besides talk out his ass so he had to merge into the swamp.

    i can totally see why you would feel that way, given that no one with better than a public high school education takes you seriously.


    drain the swamp lol dude.. who do you think got him elected?
    A group of egomaniacal dicks who thought they could shovel an unlikeble cunt down the countries throat?

     
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      vegas1369: Have to agree with this

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    Diamond hongkonger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    i can totally see why you would feel that way, given that no one with better than a public high school education takes you seriously.


    drain the swamp lol dude.. who do you think got him elected?
    A group of egomaniacal dicks who thought they could shovel an unlikeble cunt down the countries throat?
    You talking about UB?

     
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      Dan Druff: lol
    HILLARY WON

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkonger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiganer View Post

    And manages to spend a far greater of its GDP on healthcare than countries with "socialised healthcare" for worse outcomes.
    Exaaaaaaaactly. The country of business has the least efficient health care in the world.
    At least there's finally starting to be some talk regarding the COST of health care, and what to do about it.

    Neither party is offering a good solution yet, but at least there's some attention finally being paid to the matter, albeit via this stupid "subsidy" argument.

    The US health care system is broken. It needs to be completely torn apart and redesigned. A shell game regarding who pays for it isn't going to get the job done. That's what both parties are failing to understand -- or are intentionally ignoring.

    The current US healthcare cost model is: You don't know what services you're buying, and you don't know what they cost, but you're legally responsible to pay for them, once your insurance foots its share of the bill.

    Republicans are apparently mostly okay with this, and just want the poor and lower-middle-class to start paying more of their share of the costs. They're weakly trying to increase competition in order to somewhat bring costs down, but it will have a minimal impact, at best. They aren't understanding that the primary cost model is broken.

    Democrats are no better. They are also fine with this opaque, highly overpriced, inefficient system. They just want the government and the rich to foot more of the bill. Democrats also find themselves obsessed with "required coverages", basically adding a needless level of cost to each plan. Insurance should be protecting you against the unforeseen. A checkup is not unforeseen. A pap smear is not unforeseen. These should not be part of insurance -- or at least not part of mandatory coverage for insurance. But honestly, as dumb as the non-insurance insurance requirements are, that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the real issues with US healthcare. But it's a glaring example as to how the Democrats don't get it, either.

    The subsidy argument is a tough one. On one hand, it's cruel to deny health care to the poor because they can't afford it. And if you DO give care to the poor, then someone has to pay for it -- hence the subsidies. But then there's the other side of the coin. Government subsidies basically keep a broken system from falling apart, and delay the necessary reform to fix things. Why bother changing the system if it continues to be propped up by government subsidies? There's much less urgency to do so, and in the meantime, a staggering amount of money gets wasted each year, feeding the healthcare pig.

    As I've said many times, we need to get costs under control FIRST, and then worry after that who pays for everything.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    i can totally see why you would feel that way, given that no one with better than a public high school education takes you seriously.


    drain the swamp lol dude.. who do you think got him elected?
    A group of egomaniacal dicks who thought they could shovel an unlikeble cunt down the countries throat?

    Ohhhh so you think politics is a popularity contest, not an opportunity to embrace actual policy and steer the planet towards the future.

    You sir, are an absolute caution.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daly View Post

    A group of egomaniacal dicks who thought they could shovel an unlikeble cunt down the countries throat?

    Ohhhh so you think politics is a popularity contest, not an opportunity to embrace actual policy and steer the planet towards the future.

    You sir, are an absolute caution.
    His point is that the Democratic Party treated everyone like fools.

    I couldn't believe how many times I read/heard things like, "Hillary Clinton's scandals are just right wing conspiracy theories", "Muslims aren't more likely to commit acts of terror in the US", and "Obamacare hasn't raised health care costs. In fact, premiums have gone down!"

    Like, just patently false stuff that was shoved down people's throats, and you were treated like an ignoramus if you dared question these "facts".

    And then there was the SJW wing of the party which loudly took over the Democratic narrative, accusing basically everyone of being some kind of "phobic".

    In the meantime, the working class people in the middle -- the ones losing jobs and increasingly feeling confused and uncomfortable regarding the direction of America -- decided to vote for the flawed-but-more-relatable guy who seemed to at least understand what they were going through.

    The blue collar voter in Michigan who traditionally went Democrat thought to himself, "The Democrats aren't being honest with me. They're telling me that Muslims aren't terror threats, and I keep seeing news stories of Muslim terror attacks in the US. They keep saying the economy is great, and yet I'm worried about my job. They keep saying Obamacare worked, but my brother who is self-employed can barely afford his premiums. They keep saying I'm homophobic or transphobic because I don't want men in women's bathrooms. They keep saying I'm racist because I support the police against career violent criminals. You know what? I don't recognize the Democratic party anymore. I'm voting for Trump."

     
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      Daly: This... 100% this. Should be president Biden right now but the DNC is going to DNC.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    It was also a really, really, poorly run campaign.

    They made so many rookie mistakes, it was just amazing.

    Insult the other side's voters and potential voters, thus energizing the opponent's base? Check.

    Ignoring blue-collar, middle-of-the-road voters in states where you could potentially lose? Check.

    Campaigning to those who were already going to vote for you anyway? Check.

    Creating a narrative of, "We're smarter than you. The problems you think you have don't really exist. Just shut up and go with what we say." Check.

    Cheating against a primary opponent who had virtually no chance to beat you, thus opening yourself up to resentment within your own party if it got found out (which it did)? Check.

    LOL DEMOCRATS

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Druff your party is literally taking away medical coverage from disabled children so they can push through a tax break for the rich and you're like "LOL HER EMAILS".

    I know you had a rough WSOP but pull it together.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    hongmonger and FPS are literally lurking, rep repping, or posting nonsensical liberal VOMIT 24/7


    UNBAN MINTJEWLIPS

     
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      hongkonger: thank you sir may I have another

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    Diamond hongkonger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hongkonger View Post

    Exaaaaaaaactly. The country of business has the least efficient health care in the world.
    At least there's finally starting to be some talk regarding the COST of health care, and what to do about it.

    Neither party is offering a good solution yet, but at least there's some attention finally being paid to the matter, albeit via this stupid "subsidy" argument.

    The US health care system is broken. It needs to be completely torn apart and redesigned. A shell game regarding who pays for it isn't going to get the job done. That's what both parties are failing to understand -- or are intentionally ignoring.

    The current US healthcare cost model is: You don't know what services you're buying, and you don't know what they cost, but you're legally responsible to pay for them, once your insurance foots its share of the bill.

    Republicans are apparently mostly okay with this, and just want the poor and lower-middle-class to start paying more of their share of the costs. They're weakly trying to increase competition in order to somewhat bring costs down, but it will have a minimal impact, at best. They aren't understanding that the primary cost model is broken.

    Democrats are no better. They are also fine with this opaque, highly overpriced, inefficient system. They just want the government and the rich to foot more of the bill. Democrats also find themselves obsessed with "required coverages", basically adding a needless level of cost to each plan. Insurance should be protecting you against the unforeseen. A checkup is not unforeseen. A pap smear is not unforeseen. These should not be part of insurance -- or at least not part of mandatory coverage for insurance. But honestly, as dumb as the non-insurance insurance requirements are, that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the real issues with US healthcare. But it's a glaring example as to how the Democrats don't get it, either.

    The subsidy argument is a tough one. On one hand, it's cruel to deny health care to the poor because they can't afford it. And if you DO give care to the poor, then someone has to pay for it -- hence the subsidies. But then there's the other side of the coin. Government subsidies basically keep a broken system from falling apart, and delay the necessary reform to fix things. Why bother changing the system if it continues to be propped up by government subsidies? There's much less urgency to do so, and in the meantime, a staggering amount of money gets wasted each year, feeding the healthcare pig.

    As I've said many times, we need to get costs under control FIRST, and then worry after that who pays for everything.
    I agree with a lot of this, but look beyond the parties and see who is really behind it. As always, follow the money. Big Pharma, the medical device manufacturers, insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and other big corporate sectors are raking it in at everyone else's expense (including the government's). They are going to fight to protect their cash haul.
    HILLARY WON

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    hongmonger and FPS are literally lurking, rep repping, or posting nonsensical liberal VOMIT 24/7


    UNBAN MINTJEWLIPS
    Maybe jewlips should think twice before spewing in every thread making baseless accusations of disgusting crimes.
    HILLARY WON

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkonger View Post
    I agree with a lot of this, but look beyond the parties and see who is really behind it. As always, follow the money. Big Pharma, the medical device manufacturers, insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and other big corporate sectors are raking it in at everyone else's expense (including the government's). They are going to fight to protect their cash haul.
    Exactly. Wake me up when we're "taking" from pharma and insurance to "give" to consumers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Druff your party is literally taking away medical coverage from disabled children so they can push through a tax break for the rich and you're like "LOL HER EMAILS".

    I know you had a rough WSOP but pull it together.
    WSOP is only half over for me.

    Your description of Republicans' attempts at healthcare reform is highly loaded and inaccurate. And I say this as someone who does NOT agree with the way Republicans have handled healthcare reform (see my message about an hour ago).

    This isn't about "taking away medical coverage from disabled children" (or any other sympathetic group), nor is it a "tax break for the rich".

    Republicans are saying, "The subsidy train is out of control, we need to rein it in, and some people have to start paying their fair share."

    Democrats are saying, "OMG OMG OMG, you're taking away healthcare from kids! No, the government needs to subsidize even MORE, and in fact, how about dat single payer idea we keep tossing out there?"

    I am saying, "Instead of fighting about who pays into our horrendously inefficient, confusing, and corrupt healthcare system, how about we work hard to bring costs down, and THEN figure out who pays?"

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    Word on the street Justice Kennedy is retiring, meaning Donald Trump is going to name a SECOND Supreme Court Justice in his first year alone!

    We are getting back to the Constitution people!

    Fuck, I am proud to be an American. Damn proud.

     
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      hongkonger: you have nothing you achieved yourself to be proud of, so wave a flag

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I watched Mark Levin's appearance on Steven Crowder's show on Friday. Regardless of what you might think of either of those guys, Levin had a great (and unfortunately accurate) line during the interview:

    "Our healthcare system has been changed to where it's now built around the poor. I have no problem with giving the poor assistance if they can't afford care, but we shouldn't build the entire system around them, and ruin it for everyone else."

    EXACTLY

    That's what I've been saying about Obamacare (which I have personally experienced, sadly) for years.

    I've posted many times on this forum that Obamacare fixed one glaring problem with the individual health care system (inability for many to get insured) but also broke the system for everyone else (everyone who had it before is paying several times more for worse care.)

    I'm not suggesting we roll things back to pre-Obamacare days. I am suggesting we seriously look at the problems with our healthcare system, and fix it in a way which will survive long term.

    Neither party has come up with a viable long term (or even medium-term) solution yet.

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