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Thread: Time to get on the TRUMP train

  1. #35441
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    ok mitch

    touche but honestly i think the concept of reparations as a practical goal is fucking absurd. 1) its been 156 years and 2) slavery was just one element of a campaign of oppression and subjugation that literally built (and continues to build) the modern world and 3) there were over 3 million slaves freed by the EP... what sort of compensation exactly does one provide and to whom?

    even the black caucus cant reach a consensus on what this would look like or if they should even discuss it, because the one (1) thing its guaranteed to accomplish is pushing moderates away from the left while galvanizing the far right even more.

    and who can blame them? have you seen the shit the pro-reparations crowd is demanding? they are basing their expectations on reagan's 1988 civil liberties act; $20k to 100,000 japanese internment camp victims.

    adjusted, thats about $40k today.

    reparationists want a check for $40k delivered to each one of the 42 million black americans alive today.

    that's their baseline for success on this issue.

    and when they dont get it, you know who they are going to tear down? the left. they are already tarring and feathering AOC who, for no apparent reason, wanted to roll reparations into her green new deal. black caucus lost its fucking shit over that.

    so yeah, pretty fucking dumb hill to die on imo.
    Yea it's a bad idea for a number of reasons. It's pretty cheap though in pure numbers. Say compared to Trumps tax cut where rich people/corporations got bout a trillion and roughly 12 dollars trickled down, when you give poor people 2ish trillions it ends up costing about 12 dollars. 12 dollars might not be the exact number, but that's kinda how your economy works. When you inject money to the bottom tiers it bounces horizontally and does zig zaggy things vertically while those tiers get taxed before it rises to top where everyone forgets to actually pay taxes. When you inject the top nothing usually happens and almost none of it comes back.

  2. #35442
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    touche but honestly i think the concept of reparations as a practical goal is fucking absurd. 1) its been 156 years and 2) slavery was just one element of a campaign of oppression and subjugation that literally built (and continues to build) the modern world and 3) there were over 3 million slaves freed by the EP... what sort of compensation exactly does one provide and to whom?

    even the black caucus cant reach a consensus on what this would look like or if they should even discuss it, because the one (1) thing its guaranteed to accomplish is pushing moderates away from the left while galvanizing the far right even more.

    and who can blame them? have you seen the shit the pro-reparations crowd is demanding? they are basing their expectations on reagan's 1988 civil liberties act; $20k to 100,000 japanese internment camp victims.

    adjusted, thats about $40k today.

    reparationists want a check for $40k delivered to each one of the 42 million black americans alive today.

    that's their baseline for success on this issue.

    and when they dont get it, you know who they are going to tear down? the left. they are already tarring and feathering AOC who, for no apparent reason, wanted to roll reparations into her green new deal. black caucus lost its fucking shit over that.

    so yeah, pretty fucking dumb hill to die on imo.
    Yea it's a bad idea for a number of reasons. It's pretty cheap though in pure numbers. Say compared to Trumps tax cut where rich people/corporations got bout a trillion and roughly 12 dollars trickled down, when you give poor people 2ish trillions it ends up costing about 12 dollars. 12 dollars might not be the exact number, but that's kinda how your economy works. When you inject money to the bottom tiers it bounces horizontally and does zig zaggy things vertically while those tiers get taxed before it rises to top where everyone forgets to actually pay taxes. When you inject the top nothing usually happens and almost none of it comes back.

    i keep seeing argument; trump gave whitey on the moon a 1tril tax cut and this is a 1.4tril project or whatever.

    the 1tril tax break went to people/corporations who tend to invest their money back in the economy, essentially. its a dumb fucking tax break , dont get me wrong, but it also served a purpose by stimulating the market, albeit not by much.

    someone needs to point out to me how 42 million black americans with a check for 40k each is going to benefit the economy. someone needs to show me how the beneficiaries are going to be economically literate enough not to blow it on fucking yeezys.

    and when they are done with that powerpoint presentation they can explain to me how whitetrashghanistan is going to buy into this total fucking nonsense.

    oh and what a wild coincidence that this is suddenly A Thing on the eve of the 2020 election.

    good times.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  3. #35443
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    Yea it's a bad idea for a number of reasons. It's pretty cheap though in pure numbers. Say compared to Trumps tax cut where rich people/corporations got bout a trillion and roughly 12 dollars trickled down, when you give poor people 2ish trillions it ends up costing about 12 dollars. 12 dollars might not be the exact number, but that's kinda how your economy works. When you inject money to the bottom tiers it bounces horizontally and does zig zaggy things vertically while those tiers get taxed before it rises to top where everyone forgets to actually pay taxes. When you inject the top nothing usually happens and almost none of it comes back.

    i keep seeing argument; trump gave whitey on the moon a 1tril tax cut and this is a 1.4tril project or whatever.

    the 1tril tax break went to people/corporations who tend to invest their money back in the economy, essentially. its a dumb fucking tax break , dont get me wrong, but it also served a purpose by stimulating the market, albeit not by much.

    someone needs to point out to me how 42 million black americans with a check for 40k each is going to benefit the economy. someone needs to show me how the beneficiaries are going to be economically literate enough not to blow it on fucking yeezys.

    and when they are done with that powerpoint presentation they can explain to me how whitetrashghanistan is going to buy into this total fucking nonsense.

    oh and what a wild coincidence that this is suddenly A Thing on the eve of the 2020 election.

    good times.
    That investment thingie back to economy didn't happen. That almost never does, mostly because rich people can afford to do other things. Broke people can't do shit besides shuffle it back to economy. They buy mostly broke people things from broke people stores that employ broke people. On a good day rich people buy rich people shit, but they were going to do that anyways. They aren't buying twice as much rich people shit, but broke people are shooting it all off and that does the most to invigorate the economy on the short term.

    Blanket check to 42 million is a horrible idea, but compared to hoping that maybe this time money does trickle down, it's sound economics. But that's just from the money side of things from comparing two bad ideas. Oh and being illiterate enough to shoot it off instead of "investing" or saving is why it works. It gets circulated back, it pays wages that get circulated and every layer gets taxed. There's no shortage of money at the top, that's how they can afford to keep it offshore. Exchanging a big bag of money isn't part of investment anymore.

    Whitetrashganistan is part of the non money side of the equation why it's a bad idea. It's also a short term solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

  4. #35444
    If this black reparations thing comes to fruition, Imma start selling crack. You damn well know crack dealers are gonna make out like bandits on this.

  5. #35445
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    i keep seeing argument; trump gave whitey on the moon a 1tril tax cut and this is a 1.4tril project or whatever.

    the 1tril tax break went to people/corporations who tend to invest their money back in the economy, essentially. its a dumb fucking tax break , dont get me wrong, but it also served a purpose by stimulating the market, albeit not by much.

    someone needs to point out to me how 42 million black americans with a check for 40k each is going to benefit the economy. someone needs to show me how the beneficiaries are going to be economically literate enough not to blow it on fucking yeezys.

    and when they are done with that powerpoint presentation they can explain to me how whitetrashghanistan is going to buy into this total fucking nonsense.

    oh and what a wild coincidence that this is suddenly A Thing on the eve of the 2020 election.

    good times.
    That investment thingie back to economy didn't happen. That almost never does, mostly because rich people can afford to do other things. Broke people can't do shit besides shuffle it back to economy. They buy mostly broke people things from broke people stores that employ broke people. On a good day rich people buy rich people shit, but they were going to do that anyways. They aren't buying twice as much rich people shit, but broke people are shooting it all off and that does the most to invigorate the economy on the short term.

    Blanket check to 42 million is a horrible idea, but compared to hoping that maybe this time money does trickle down, it's sound economics. But that's just from the money side of things from comparing two bad ideas. Oh and being illiterate enough to shoot it off instead of "investing" or saving is why it works. It gets circulated back, it pays wages that get circulated and every layer gets taxed. There's no shortage of money at the top, that's how they can afford to keep it offshore. Exchanging a big bag of money isn't part of investment anymore.

    Whitetrashganistan is part of the non money side of the equation why it's a bad idea. It's also a short term solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


    let me say point blank im not an economist and this is a hot take; i agree at heart with what you said. also im pretty sure you already know that.

    but regarding the 'they will shoot it off and the economy will benefit' angle, are they going to really 'spend american'?

    if they are buying sony tvs or whatever is that really benefitting our economy when china is raking like 60 cents of every dollar?

    also you know there is going to be some insane clause where they arent eligible for welfare for a decade if they take the check. cities composed of tin shacks with open sewers in the street is next.

    forget drug dealing, just go long on private prisons and shady rehab centers.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  6. #35446
    You can pick any of these articles about the effects of the Trump tax cut...

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...nvestment.html

    ...there's usually a link to a study of sorts. So far the boost is solid 5% of what it cost. These type of policies tended to hit about 10-15% of the cost, but that was at times when there were more domestic investment opportunities and underlying assets used to finance investment weren't as leveraged.

    Today an additional bag of money is the least needed part for profitable investments. Even bad investments get financed everyday and assets are likely over leveraged, but not so much that they couldn't be leveraged more.

     
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      sonatine: will read

  7. #35447
    All I hear is Trump, Trump, Trump. And then more Trump, Trump, Trump.

  8. #35448
    i was actually against the reparations thing, but think it might be worth it for the unintentional comedy of people trying to say that they're 1/10000th black to get the $x...

    like seriously jerry springer would have episodes for years...

  9. #35449
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    That investment thingie back to economy didn't happen. That almost never does, mostly because rich people can afford to do other things. Broke people can't do shit besides shuffle it back to economy. They buy mostly broke people things from broke people stores that employ broke people. On a good day rich people buy rich people shit, but they were going to do that anyways. They aren't buying twice as much rich people shit, but broke people are shooting it all off and that does the most to invigorate the economy on the short term.

    Blanket check to 42 million is a horrible idea, but compared to hoping that maybe this time money does trickle down, it's sound economics. But that's just from the money side of things from comparing two bad ideas. Oh and being illiterate enough to shoot it off instead of "investing" or saving is why it works. It gets circulated back, it pays wages that get circulated and every layer gets taxed. There's no shortage of money at the top, that's how they can afford to keep it offshore. Exchanging a big bag of money isn't part of investment anymore.

    Whitetrashganistan is part of the non money side of the equation why it's a bad idea. It's also a short term solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


    let me say point blank im not an economist and this is a hot take; i agree at heart with what you said. also im pretty sure you already know that.

    but regarding the 'they will shoot it off and the economy will benefit' angle, are they going to really 'spend american'?

    if they are buying sony tvs or whatever is that really benefitting our economy when china is raking like 60 cents of every dollar?

    also you know there is going to be some insane clause where they arent eligible for welfare for a decade if they take the check. cities composed of tin shacks with open sewers in the street is next.

    forget drug dealing, just go long on private prisons and shady rehab centers.
    China only gets 10% or something like that on average. Just how retail works. 3x is often used markup to the price after the products hit the shore and that price includes shipping, taxes and all kinds of shit. Small pieces of that retail price gets chipped every time anything in that fairly long chain employs American. That's everyone from the docks, transport, warehousing, wholesale and then everyone involved in retail outlets. Everyone that's employed in that chain spends their money on products with similar chains and all of it gets taxed. Then there's marketing and few other things that employs American that ends up financing American entertainment.

    Good things tend to happen when you sell inside America to Americans. Now don't get me wrong a good amount of the money goes to the top and randomly disappears, but when you don't start at the top it tends to do more for the economy. And i still do think it's a bad idea, if you hope for some kind of long term effect.

  10. #35450
    Quote Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis View Post
    i was actually against the reparations thing, but think it might be worth it for the unintentional comedy of people trying to say that they're 1/10000th black to get the $x...

    like seriously jerry springer would have episodes for years...
    I identify as a descendant of a slave.

     
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      GambleBotsChafedPenis: Learning From Elizabeth Rep
      
      MumblesBadly: You are a slave to your race-based hatred.

  11. #35451
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    Yea it's a bad idea for a number of reasons. It's pretty cheap though in pure numbers. Say compared to Trumps tax cut where rich people/corporations got bout a trillion and roughly 12 dollars trickled down, when you give poor people 2ish trillions it ends up costing about 12 dollars. 12 dollars might not be the exact number, but that's kinda how your economy works. When you inject money to the bottom tiers it bounces horizontally and does zig zaggy things vertically while those tiers get taxed before it rises to top where everyone forgets to actually pay taxes. When you inject the top nothing usually happens and almost none of it comes back.

    i keep seeing argument; trump gave whitey on the moon a 1tril tax cut and this is a 1.4tril project or whatever.

    the 1tril tax break went to people/corporations who tend to invest their money back in the economy, essentially. its a dumb fucking tax break , dont get me wrong, but it also served a purpose by stimulating the market, albeit not by much.

    someone needs to point out to me how 42 million black americans with a check for 40k each is going to benefit the economy. someone needs to show me how the beneficiaries are going to be economically literate enough not to blow it on fucking yeezys.

    and when they are done with that powerpoint presentation they can explain to me how whitetrashghanistan is going to buy into this total fucking nonsense.

    oh and what a wild coincidence that this is suddenly A Thing on the eve of the 2020 election.

    good times.
    i might be wrong cause this isn't my thing and all, but i think you're comparing trickle down vs keynesian economics. the republicans advocate trickle down while the dems are more keynesian.

    i'm not sure which model is best but it seems logical to me that giving poor people money they need to spend just to live would at least insure that the money gets recirculated into the economy. giving rich people money (either directly or via tax breaks) might do the same but i suspect it would be to a lesser extent as they would be more likely to save a good chunk of it.

  12. #35452
    also i'm actually in favor of the concept of reparations and not just cause my wife would benefit from it. but the reality of doing it today would just tear the country apart even further

    and yeah, suspicious timing of the reparations debate

  13. #35453
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    Yeah reparations. Obv. overdue and a necessary gesture. In this climate unlikely.
    How should it be handled. Free college to all African Americans. Nothing could benefit the oppressed community going forward and nothing could be more beneficial to the country. Start with this group and extend the program to those who qualify monetarily. Not so much as a hand out as an investment

     
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      sah_24: nap time

  14. #35454
    Gold garrett's Avatar
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    So what are the plans on unbanning Marty for election season.

    Cant go the entire election cycle without Marty, the fans deserve more.

     
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      sonatine: coge.

  15. #35455
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    Quote Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis View Post
    i was actually against the reparations thing, but think it might be worth it for the unintentional comedy of people trying to say that they're 1/10000th black to get the $x...

    like seriously jerry springer would have episodes for years...
    I'm black from the waist down so hopefully I can cash in too if this ever passes.

     
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      GambleBotsChafedPenis: Hadda Be Said/Good Luck With Your Application Rep

  16. #35456

  17. #35457
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    Israel is smiling from ear to ear

  18. #35458
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    Israel is smiling from ear to ear
    Putin will never give Trump permission to actually attack Iran.

    After Iran bragged about it he's already making up excuses for them. Wasn't Putins fault for election interference. Wasn't Kim Jongs fault for killing Otto. Wasn't Irans fault for shooting down the drone. All just a big misunderstanding. Fuck NATO and the NYTimes though. He's also basically handed Venezuela over to Russia.

    "Speaking at the White House, Trump suggested the shoot-down of the $100 million high-flying U.S. drone could have been an accident carried out by a “general” acting “loose and stupid.”

    “I find it hard to believe it was intentional”


    https://time.com/5611310/trump-iran-drone-shot-down/

  19. #35459
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    Israel is smiling from ear to ear
    Putin will never give Trump permission to actually attack Iran.

    After Iran bragged about it he's already making up excuses for them. Wasn't Putins fault for election interference. Wasn't Kim Jongs fault for killing Otto. Wasn't Irans fault for shooting down the drone. All just a big misunderstanding. Fuck NATO and the NYTimes though. He's also basically handed Venezuela over to Russia.

    "Speaking at the White House, Trump suggested the shoot-down of the $100 million high-flying U.S. drone could have been an accident carried out by a “general” acting “loose and stupid.”

    “I find it hard to believe it was intentional”


    https://time.com/5611310/trump-iran-drone-shot-down/


    LOL WOW WELL DONE


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  20. #35460
    Diamond big dick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    Israel is smiling from ear to ear
    Putin will never give Trump permission to actually attack Iran.

    After Iran bragged about it he's already making up excuses for them. Wasn't Putins fault for election interference. Wasn't Kim Jongs fault for killing Otto. Wasn't Irans fault for shooting down the drone. All just a big misunderstanding. Fuck NATO and the NYTimes though. He's also basically handed Venezuela over to Russia.

    "Speaking at the White House, Trump suggested the shoot-down of the $100 million high-flying U.S. drone could have been an accident carried out by a “general” acting “loose and stupid.”

    “I find it hard to believe it was intentional”


    https://time.com/5611310/trump-iran-drone-shot-down/
    Putin 100% owns Trump, no doubt.

     
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      MumblesBadly: For once, Putin is (inadvertantly) doing a good thing for the US.

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