PFA RADIO

[Mike Oxlong]

Random questions-

Why can only Druff post in the radio forum?

Why do one marathon show each week instead of 2-3 shorter shows each week?

The inside jokes like "archive" probably make no sense to most of your audience and just turn them off.

Druff is cringe worthy whenever disgussing women, past relationships, sex etc.

Develop personalities like TMLK/truck driver guy for weekly call ins even if short and annoying like Stern does.

Why does Drex have a mancrush on traderrusky?

Have you tried to sell advertising? I'm sure many of your audience could sell spots if you'd split it with them. win/win

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is interested in Drexel's gamboling roulette, slots, and baccarat at +ev?

Open your show to feedback and the sky's the limit!

-OX

[Krypt]

tight life

[JACKDANIELS]

ANSWER HIM TODD

[Baron Von Strucker]

Welcome stranger post more

Druffs awkwardness while talking about sex and women is some of the best stuff IMO

Knowing the difference inside jokes makes you part of the gang

Traderruski is a cute little dude we all should have one, this ones Drexel's so hands off

[Drexel]

Random questions-

Why can only Druff post in the radio forum?

Good question. I have no idea. Druff will have to answer that

Why do one marathon show each week instead of 2-3 shorter shows each week?

In theory that makes a lot of sense but between Druff raising a young kid and me running around constantly, it's a big enough commitment just to make it once a week.


The inside jokes like "archive" probably make no sense to most of your audience and just turn them off.

Do we make that many inside jokes? Why do you think the few that we do would turn listeners off? I think the few inside jokes we make, we do constantly enough that any regular listener will fastly pick up on it.

Druff is cringe worthy whenever disgussing women, past relationships, sex etc

I personally think our contrast in the way we tell stories such as the above mentioned are actually quite hilarious.

Develop personalities like TMLK/truck driver guy for weekly call ins even if short and annoying like Stern does

I agree. The truth is that Druff and I rarely speak or plan before a show. When someone like TMLK or the truck driver (mumblesbadly) call in, they are doing it without either of us knowing beforehand. Then of course everything you hear is adlibbed.

Why does Drex have a mancrush on traderusky?

Lol. Baron answered this but to expand a bit, after I took a hiatus from radio after the WSOP, I came back and one episode traderusky was on. I had never heard of him or spoken with him before so it became a running gag how awesome he was in the beginning. But after getting to know him on radio and then off air, I can state he is a very cool, funny, laid back dude. Him always falling asleep, making herbal tea during radio and having an assistant are one of a few running gags with him.

Have you tried to sell advertising? I'm sure many of your audience could sell spots if you'd split it with them. win/win

Druff can answer this better than me but I will be honest, unless it was serious meaningful money, I wouldn't do a show if any advertiser had creative control, veto power etc.



I'm sure I'm not the only one who is interested in Drexel's gamboling roulette, slots, and baccarat at +ev


I know I have been asked before to expand on my daily gambling but I truthfully am afraid I will come across as arrogant, which I really would hate, so I haven't broached any of those subjects in quite a while.


Open your show to feedback and the sky's the limit

I think the show has always been open to feedback. I know I always try to take into account what people like and dislike. I have even tried to compromise knowing that I was wrong and that there is a great faction of people that love hearing the online poker stuff.

I also will say that even though I really am trying to be a more consistent fixture on the show and not disappear for long periods, it is amazing that Witteles has broadcast this show for all these years week in and week out, a bunch of times all alone.

I find myself just going about my daily routine and randomly thinking of ideas I want to implement on radio. I started writing a note to myself on my phone to remember. The Druff roast was one of these. I also (and I'm only giving away this one as a teaser) was going to create a weekly segment tentatively called the "Marianna Minute" in which we call our brothers and sisters each week in the Marianna Islands as a gag. If that last sentence confuses you, you probably didn't listen to last weeks radio.

ZoD


-OX

[Dan Druff]

I don't sell advertising because it's frustrating to do, plus I wouldn't want some of the potential advertisers anyway (if it's a shady online casino or something). If you want to sell any ads for the show, go ahead and I will give you 25% of the revenue. However, any sponsor has to know that they can never censor anything we say or do.

The radio forum isn't a discussion forum. It's a collection of the show archives, and that forum generates the RSS feed for the show to be carried on the various apps. I don't let anyone else post, or things could get screwed up.

I tell stories from my past (sometimes about women, sometimes about other areas of my life) both to entertain the listeners and for the audience to get to know me better. I don't understand the "cringe worthy" part. I do find it a bit unnatural sometimes to talk about sex to an audience of 1000 middle aged dudes, but I mostly speak honestly and candidly about the things I remember. I don't like discussing anything from the present because I feel it's disrespectful to my girlfriend.

I do take feedback on the show. You just posted some, so I don't understand that comment.

Brandon did a good job answering the rest, so I won't repeat the stuff he wrote.

[IAmProfessionalTalk]

New listenership will suffer if the former sites' archives are no longer available. I'm not convinced that you'd be violating anything to host them here.

[Sanlmar]

The inside jokes like "archive" probably make no sense to most of your audience and just turn them off.

Every community or group of friends inevitably develop slang, nicknames and inside jokes. Hanging around and finally understanding makes the listener feel part of the group and gets them invested.

Gotta earn it.

Currently, the show is far from obscure. Druff has stuck to his knitting on the Fraud Show side.

It's all about the personalities on the show - and less the material. Drexel and Druff are a perfect Yin and Yang.

I am not an old time member or listener comparatively. I do like words and language and always found this inside joke stuff a big part of the appeal. You like the guys and want to be "in".

On a side note:

Drexel recently posted a DD show from 8-4-2010. I also read that the hosting of the old NWP & DD shows might be in jeopardy. This is criminal. These shows are a snapshot of an very interesting and unusual period that will not be repeated. Micon (or whoever) has a responsibility to history to keep this in the public domain somehow.

Even in late 2010 you could sense that there was still excitement about Vegas & poker on the show. There was a PFA tourny on PokerStars concurrent with the show.

This was just before Black Friday. I was thinking about this as I listened. These poor schmucks have no idea what's about to drop. Being the stock guy, I snapped to attention when Micon announced, "short MGM". He explained his thoughts - he was late but he was right. Great stuff.

I think Micon values the work that was done back then. He may have moved on from new material but the guy always saw the big picture. I hope you guys are big enough to make overtures toward preserving your work and continuing to make it available.

Perhaps some of the NWP & DD historians could suggest some cuts from shows that are almost a decade old now. Druff & Drexel could play them on the radio show as a regular segment and discuss. If we knew then what we know now and all that. This borders on more "inside stuff" perhaps but tough shit.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be? Naw. Nostalgia is a huge part of PFA and poker.

[Dan Druff]

Here is an excerpt from the contract written by Alvin Finklestein (not joking) and signed by both me and Micon:

3) Witteles’ “Dan Druff +EV Show” radio podcasts may not be sold for profit by donkdown.com, or used in any other way besides being distributed freely (without subscription) to the public through donkdown.com. Witteles is allowed to produce similar and related content to that presented on the “Dan Druff +EV Show” and his “Ask Dan Druff” forum posts. He may then sell that new content without any compensation to the Company.

4) All other radio podcasts from donkdown.com may be distributed, used, or sold without further compensation to Witteles.

5) Except as provided in this Agreement, no other content provided by Witteles for donkdown.com may be sold, reprinted, or redistributed (other than the Company continuing to offer it free of charge on donkdown.com or any successor website, or in connection with any assignment or sale of the Company) without Witteles’ express written consent. Subject to the above limitations on selling content, Witteles agrees and acknowledges that the Company, and any successor or assign of the Company, is the sole owner of all content posted or provided by Witteles on donkdown.com before and after execution of this Agreement. This includes forum posts, blog posts, and radio shows.

The bolded part basically says that I acknowledge that the entire site of DD, including the radio shows, are solely owned by Micon.

Interestingly, the portion regarding no reproduction is there to protect me, but it only applies to the +EV show and my forum posts. That is, it's saying that Micon can't sell the +EV shows, but can only provide them free of charge in an openly accessible area. I put that in just in case he wanted to sell some "Druff system" on limit holdem in the future.

There is nothing in the contract prohibiting me from redistributing the radio shows, but there is an agreement that Micon fully owns it.

There could be a legal argument made that shows made publicly and freely available on the web and via podcast, which are then re-distributed here for free, are not violating anything. This is especially true if the donkdown site has been abandoned for years, and is not producing any new content or generating any money (which it's not).

So I suppose I can host them. If Micon objects, though, I will have to take them down.

[IAmProfessionalTalk]

Perhaps some of the NWP & DD historians could suggest some cuts from shows that are almost a decade old now. Druff & Drexel could play them on the radio show as a regular segment and discuss. If we knew then what we know now and all that. This borders on more "inside stuff" perhaps but tough shit.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be? Naw. Nostalgia is a huge part of PFA and poker.

Just about everyone would agree that "TK the Pimp"+"50 Dolla Back" is the most entertaining episode.

The Brad Booth episode was spine-tingling drama, with call-ins from Travis Makar and Neverwin out of the blue. The entire Makar saga was incredible radio.

Brandi trolling the show with movie quotes.

Bodog refusing to admit that a secret is a secret.

David Sklansky prank call where he inadvertently reveals yet another underage girl he's exploiting.

Phil Hellmuth at Best Buy.

Lynette Chan speaking to Russ Hamilton to get a blurb for Hellmuth's autobiography.

Every Neverheeb segment was gold.

Pre-famous Dan Bilzerian was a fantastic interview.

Druff vs Joy Miller fight was nasty and riveting. Micon and Druff were never the same after.



Some "oops" moments:

Some kid calls in to expose show darling Melanie Weisner for not paying her debts and the hosts attack him mercilessly, especially Brandon

Badguy23 says that PeterDC is a fraud and gets laughed off

The episode where Micon and Todd promote Lock Poker lol

[Dan Druff]

Perhaps some of the NWP & DD historians could suggest some cuts from shows that are almost a decade old now. Druff & Drexel could play them on the radio show as a regular segment and discuss. If we knew then what we know now and all that. This borders on more "inside stuff" perhaps but tough shit.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be? Naw. Nostalgia is a huge part of PFA and poker.

Just about everyone would agree that "TK the Pimp"+"50 Dolla Back" is the most entertaining episode.

The Brad Booth episode was spine-tingling drama, with call-ins from Travis Makar and Neverwin out of the blue. The entire Makar saga was incredible radio.

Brandi trolling the show with movie quotes.

Bodog refusing to admit that a secret is a secret.

David Sklansky prank call where he inadvertently reveals yet another underage girl he's exploiting.

Phil Hellmuth at Best Buy.

Lynette Chan speaking to Russ Hamilton to get a blurb for Hellmuth's autobiography.

Every Neverheeb segment was gold.

Pre-famous Dan Bilzerian was a fantastic interview.

Druff vs Joy Miller fight was nasty and riveting. Micon and Druff were never the same after.



Some "oops" moments:

Some kid calls in to expose show darling Melanie Weisner for not paying her debts and the hosts attack him mercilessly, especially Brandon

Badguy23 says that PeterDC is a fraud and gets laughed off

The episode where Micon and Todd promote Lock Poker lol

There were all great moments.

I am partial to the Bodog prank call.

They kept repeating, "We can't reveal that" (the reason neverheeb was banned -- they wouldn't even tell him!)

We kept asking (as his "attorneys"), "Why is it a secret?"

She responded, "It's not a secret?"

We said back. "If it's not a secret, then you can tell us."

She responded, "I'm sorry, we aren't revealing that."

So of course we said, "Then it IS a secret!"

... and this went on for like 20 minutes where we kept pressing her to define "secret", and she simply wouldn't relent. She couldn't tell us, but yet it wasn't a secret.

This had some real fallout, though. Bodog had agreed with Pokernews to give away a $10,000 WSOP Main seat, and after hearing this call, they took it back and told Pokernews to forget it. Pokernews was really pissed at us. I asked if one of the Bodog managers could call me and I would try to smooth it over.

The Bodog manager (some uppity guy from Toronto) was clearly angry when he called, though he pretended that he "thought it was funny" but still lectured me that it was inappropriate to do such a thing to a marketing partner. I countered that we didn't plan this, and were honestly calling to get neverheeb's account reinstated, and then ran into this "secret" nonsense. He admitted that the rep handled it poorly, but still said we acted unprofessionally regarding the partnership.

The best I could negotiate at that point was a 50-50 split for the Main, where Pokernews had to cough up the other $5k.

Needless to say, they weren't happy about it.

[Sanlmar]

It's interesting or amusing that kind of energy was devoted to formalizing something that appeared to us as a gag done for your own entertainment.

There might be a justification for hosting the shows per your interpretation of the contract. Okay.

Look, Micon is a player. You may not agree with him, his style or the way you were treated. However, I see no reason to not be proactive about reaching out to him for the purpose of continuing to put the material forward.

The work was solid and in a lot of ways an important chronical of those times. Micon would agree.

If he feels strongly otherwise you will find out eventually. Why not be proactive and extend Micon the courtesy of some respect (for the work).

I am sincerely not trying to stir up needless drama. I do business with my competitors fairly regularly. Lend parts, facility advice etc. I always extend professional courtesy.

Why bother with this? My intuition and compass tells me this is just proper conduct. Furthermore, it shows your respect for the work that you guys did collectively.

I will not lie, I still hold out hope the Beatles will look past their differences and get back together. I accept neither is likely to happen.

Do right thing and see where it goes.

[jacosta24]

What about Druff's question song?!

[Sanlmar]

You know what's great about this list IAPT? I don't know shit about any one of these after 3 years.

They all sound great. I think we are onto something.

Everything old is new again.

Edit:
Your ability to snap off 12 or 13 specific suggestions in a minute or two is a bit frightening.

We are talking about a replacement for Davidee and we have a guy named IAmProfessionalTalk doing this kind of work - much less all the other tremendous (largely still undiscovered & under appreciated) work on PFA.

I know you can't and you won't - just love the irony.

[Dan Druff]

It's interesting or amusing that kind of energy was devoted to formalizing something that appeared to us as a gag done for your own entertainment.

There might be a justification for hosting the shows per your interpretation of the contract. Okay.

Look, Micon is a player. You may not agree with him, his style or the way you were treated. However, I see no reason to not be proactive about reaching out to him for the purpose of continuing to put the material forward.

The work was solid and in a lot of ways an important chronical of those times. Micon would agree.

If he feels strongly otherwise you will find out eventually. Why not be proactive and extend Micon the courtesy of some respect (for the work).

I am sincerely not trying to stir up needless drama. I do business with my competitors fairly regularly. Lend parts, facility advice etc. I always extend professional courtesy.

Why bother with this? My intuition and compass tells me this is just proper conduct. Furthermore, it shows your respect for the work that you guys did collectively.

I will not lie, I still hold out hope the Beatles will look past their differences and get back together. I accept neither is likely to happen.

Do right thing and see where it goes.

This isn't about pride.

I am just afraid that trying to get Micon to give formal permission won't result in success. I will either get ignored or receive an answer like, "No you can't. I'm going to get them up on Donkdown 3.0 dropping soon", and that will be that. And we all know that DD 3.0 won't be dropping soon, or even close to soon.

Given that archive.org automatically archives most freely available content on the web, I am assuming that I'm not really taking much of a legal risk archiving old NWP/DD Radio shows here. This is especially true because I was one of the radio's main pahticipants. So I'll put the onus on Micon to object if he finds it objectionable, and if he does I will take it down upon request, and explain the situation to everyone. Hopefully he either won't care or won't bother expending the energy to complain about it. As you said, the old radio archives are something all three of us can be proud of, and shouldn't be about who is hosting them.

If Micon wants to host them himself again, I will also be glad to take them down from here, and in fact will link to the old shows if anyone wants to hear them. I just want them accessible in some way.

I will still need a copy of all the DD Radio archives, because I don't have them. If someone could ZIP them all and upload them somewhere, that would be great.

[IAmProfessionalTalk]

It's interesting or amusing that kind of energy was devoted to formalizing something that appeared to us as a gag done for your own entertainment.

There might be a justification for hosting the shows per your interpretation of the contract. Okay.

Look, Micon is a player. You may not agree with him, his style or the way you were treated. However, I see no reason to not be proactive about reaching out to him for the purpose of continuing to put the material forward.

The work was solid and in a lot of ways an important chronical of those times. Micon would agree.

If he feels strongly otherwise you will find out eventually. Why not be proactive and extend Micon the courtesy of some respect (for the work).

I am sincerely not trying to stir up needless drama. I do business with my competitors fairly regularly. Lend parts, facility advice etc. I always extend professional courtesy.

Why bother with this? My intuition and compass tells me this is just proper conduct. Furthermore, it shows your respect for the work that you guys did collectively.

I will not lie, I still hold out hope the Beatles will look past their differences and get back together. I accept neither is likely to happen.

Do right thing and see where it goes.

This isn't about pride.

I am just afraid that trying to get Micon to give formal permission won't result in success. I will either get ignored or receive an answer like, "No you can't. I'm going to get them up on Donkdown 3.0 dropping soon", and that will be that. And we all know that DD 3.0 won't be dropping soon, or even close to soon.

Given that archive.org automatically archives most freely available content on the web, I am assuming that I'm not really taking much of a legal risk archiving old NWP/DD Radio shows here. This is especially true because I was one of the radio's main pahticipants. So I'll put the onus on Micon to object if he finds it objectionable, and if he does I will take it down upon request, and explain the situation to everyone. Hopefully he either won't care or won't bother expending the energy to complain about it. As you said, the old radio archives are something all three of us can be proud of, and shouldn't be about who is hosting them.

If Micon wants to host them himself again, I will also be glad to take them down from here, and in fact will link to the old shows if anyone wants to hear them. I just want them accessible in some way.

I will still need a copy of all the DD Radio archives, because I don't have them. If someone could ZIP them all and upload them somewhere, that would be great.

Damn, I assumed you already had them. It's rumored that BellyBuster has them all saved. Didn't Thomas do the DD redesign? Maybe he has access.

[Crowe Diddly]

Look, Micon is a player. You may not agree with him, his style or the way you were treated. However, I see no reason to not be proactive about reaching out to him for the purpose of continuing to put the material forward.

micon pretty much would prefer druff to be dead than anything else, imo. He's even said as much, I think. He'd sooner destroy everything than give it to druff, get druff's help, or have anything to do with druff in any way.

[Belly Buster]

This isn't about pride.

I am just afraid that trying to get Micon to give formal permission won't result in success. I will either get ignored or receive an answer like, "No you can't. I'm going to get them up on Donkdown 3.0 dropping soon", and that will be that. And we all know that DD 3.0 won't be dropping soon, or even close to soon.

Given that archive.org automatically archives most freely available content on the web, I am assuming that I'm not really taking much of a legal risk archiving old NWP/DD Radio shows here. This is especially true because I was one of the radio's main pahticipants. So I'll put the onus on Micon to object if he finds it objectionable, and if he does I will take it down upon request, and explain the situation to everyone. Hopefully he either won't care or won't bother expending the energy to complain about it. As you said, the old radio archives are something all three of us can be proud of, and shouldn't be about who is hosting them.

If Micon wants to host them himself again, I will also be glad to take them down from here, and in fact will link to the old shows if anyone wants to hear them. I just want them accessible in some way.

I will still need a copy of all the DD Radio archives, because I don't have them. If someone could ZIP them all and upload them somewhere, that would be great.

Damn, I assumed you already had them. It's rumored that BellyBuster has them all saved. Didn't Thomas do the DD redesign? Maybe he has access.

I can neither confirm nor deny this rumour.

[Tellafriend]

Just about everyone would agree that "TK the Pimp"+"50 Dolla Back" is the most entertaining episode.

The Brad Booth episode was spine-tingling drama, with call-ins from Travis Makar and Neverwin out of the blue. The entire Makar saga was incredible radio.

Brandi trolling the show with movie quotes.

Bodog refusing to admit that a secret is a secret.

David Sklansky prank call where he inadvertently reveals yet another underage girl he's exploiting.

Phil Hellmuth at Best Buy.

Lynette Chan speaking to Russ Hamilton to get a blurb for Hellmuth's autobiography.

Every Neverheeb segment was gold.

Pre-famous Dan Bilzerian was a fantastic interview.

Druff vs Joy Miller fight was nasty and riveting. Micon and Druff were never the same after.



Some "oops" moments:

Some kid calls in to expose show darling Melanie Weisner for not paying her debts and the hosts attack him mercilessly, especially Brandon

Badguy23 says that PeterDC is a fraud and gets laughed off

The episode where Micon and Todd promote Lock Poker lol

There were all great moments.

I am partial to the Bodog prank call.

They kept repeating, "We can't reveal that" (the reason neverheeb was banned -- they wouldn't even tell him!)

We kept asking (as his "attorneys"), "Why is it a secret?"

She responded, "It's not a secret?"

We said back. "If it's not a secret, then you can tell us."

She responded, "I'm sorry, we aren't revealing that."

So of course we said, "Then it IS a secret!"

... and this went on for like 20 minutes where we kept pressing her to define "secret", and she simply wouldn't relent. She couldn't tell us, but yet it wasn't a secret.

This had some real fallout, though. Bodog had agreed with Pokernews to give away a $10,000 WSOP Main seat, and after hearing this call, they took it back and told Pokernews to forget it. Pokernews was really pissed at us. I asked if one of the Bodog managers could call me and I would try to smooth it over.

The Bodog manager (some uppity guy from Toronto) was clearly angry when he called, though he pretended that he "thought it was funny" but still lectured me that it was inappropriate to do such a thing to a marketing partner. I countered that we didn't plan this, and were honestly calling to get neverheeb's account reinstated, and then ran into this "secret" nonsense. He admitted that the rep handled it poorly, but still said we acted unprofessionally regarding the partnership.

The best I could negotiate at that point was a 50-50 split for the Main, where Pokernews had to cough up the other $5k.

Needless to say, they weren't happy about it.

We really need these old shows -- have dates on the ones above, I'd love to hear them!