bovada refunds players !

[AT-6ed]

Bovada refunds players for having multi -accounting and bots on the site ! Can this be true ?

[FRANKRIZZO]

I found bots to be playing on bovada. I proved this by buttoning a player I suspected of being a bot and did this to him 80 times. I was contacted by bovadas hapless security and told that this was not in the spirit of the game. I told the guy who sounded like he had marbles in his mouth that I did this because the other player was a bot. Who in their right mind would let themselves be buttoned 80 times??!!!!! I kept doing it until the operator caught on to what was going on and once told me fuck you in chat.

[SetofKs]

I got $450

[Dan Druff]

I got $450

WTF?

Why didn't I get a dime here?

What games were you playing, SetofKs? Did you play 20-40 or 30-60 limit holdem at all?

Or maybe I was lucky enough to beat the bots?

Or maybe.... Bovada just doesn't feel like refunding me anything because I'm one of the bigger winners on there?

[Dan Druff]

I found bots to be playing on bovada. I proved this by buttoning a player I suspected of being a bot and did this to him 80 times. I was contacted by bovadas hapless security and told that this was not in the spirit of the game. I told the guy who sounded like he had marbles in his mouth that I did this because the other player was a bot. Who in their right mind would let themselves be buttoned 80 times??!!!!! I kept doing it until the operator caught on to what was going on and once told me fuck you in chat.

Seriously?

That's exactly what I did about 6 years ago. Repeatedly "buttoned" a bot like 57 times in a row, until the bot owner saw it and cursed me out. Then he reported me.

I had a long argument with LOL Bodog security based out of Toronto, who kept saying it was "inconclusive" if this person was a bot. Furthermore, I was supposedly in the wrong for buttoning the guy -- even though the player in question (you could see names back then) was one of the site's biggest winners. So a big winner (meaning a good, experienced player) was letting me button him 57 straight times -- and it's supposedly still not a bot?

I was told if I continued the buttoning of suspected bots, they would shut down my account. They refused to take any action against the known bots.

[SetofKs]

I got $450

WTF?

Why didn't I get a dime here?

What games were you playing, SetofKs? Did you play 20-40 or 30-60 limit holdem at all?

Or maybe I was lucky enough to beat the bots?

Or maybe.... Bovada just doesn't feel like refunding me anything because I'm one of the bigger winners on there?

$30-60 mainly with some 20-40 and a few hands lower. played 80 hours the last week or so like a crack head so that probably helps. Below is the message they sent me

Dear Matthew,

We have concluded that players in a ring game that you were involved in have breached our terms of service. As such, their winnings have been removed, and you have been credited the appropriate amount. Please check your account balance for reference.

We are committed to providing a fun and safe place for players all over the world to enjoy poker. With that being said, we are constantly monitoring our tables as well as following up on leads from players to ensure that collusion is found and dealt with appropriately.

Should you have any questions, feel free to contact us at 1-866-909-2237.

Regards,

Bovada Poker

[SetofKs]

Maybe the reason I got money is because I was attacking the regs that were waiting for action. They were doing some things that I thought were exploitable, and I didn't think about it at the time, but it makes sense that they were bots. I was making some obvious plays to exploit certain tendencies, and they would not adjust to it at all. Any human hu player that was paying attention would've been adjusting to what I was doing. Do bots leave once the game turns 3 handed, or will they play in ring games?

[FRANKRIZZO]

I found bots to be playing on bovada. I proved this by buttoning a player I suspected of being a bot and did this to him 80 times. I was contacted by bovadas hapless security and told that this was not in the spirit of the game. I told the guy who sounded like he had marbles in his mouth that I did this because the other player was a bot. Who in their right mind would let themselves be buttoned 80 times??!!!!! I kept doing it until the operator caught on to what was going on and once told me fuck you in chat.

Seriously?

That's exactly what I did about 6 years ago. Repeatedly "buttoned" a bot like 57 times in a row, until the bot owner saw it and cursed me out. Then he reported me.

I had a long argument with LOL Bodog security based out of Toronto, who kept saying it was "inconclusive" if this person was a bot. Furthermore, I was supposedly in the wrong for buttoning the guy -- even though the player in question (you could see names back then) was one of the site's biggest winners. So a big winner (meaning a good, experienced player) was letting me button him 57 straight times -- and it's supposedly still not a bot?

I was told if I continued the buttoning of suspected bots, they would shut down my account. They refused to take any action against the known bots.

Nah I took your experience and made it my own. Just seeing if anyone was paying attention Im shocked bodogs security was even capable of finding any bots based on Todds experience and the buttoning episode.

[thiefcatcher]

The group who operated the limit bots on so many sites made a killing on Bovada over the years(a lot of other sites, as well). Druff, remember that female from LA who had the big 2p2 thread after FTP confiscated her account funds? I remember your presence in that thread. Her group made a literal fortune in the limit games over the years. She operated bots for the guys who built them.

[Dan Druff]

WTF?

Why didn't I get a dime here?

What games were you playing, SetofKs? Did you play 20-40 or 30-60 limit holdem at all?

Or maybe I was lucky enough to beat the bots?

Or maybe.... Bovada just doesn't feel like refunding me anything because I'm one of the bigger winners on there?

$30-60 mainly with some 20-40 and a few hands lower. played 80 hours the last week or so like a crack head so that probably helps. Below is the message they sent me

Dear Matthew,

We have concluded that players in a ring game that you were involved in have breached our terms of service. As such, their winnings have been removed, and you have been credited the appropriate amount. Please check your account balance for reference.

We are committed to providing a fun and safe place for players all over the world to enjoy poker. With that being said, we are constantly monitoring our tables as well as following up on leads from players to ensure that collusion is found and dealt with appropriately.

Should you have any questions, feel free to contact us at 1-866-909-2237.

Regards,

Bovada Poker

This actually answers a lot.

Nobody on 2+2 with a refund has said they played LHE.

But yet you play LHE (same as me -- 20/40 and 30/60), and you got a refund, while I didn't.

Seems that most refunds were to PLO, but some to NL.

Someone reported he only plays hu, which rules out collusion.

There were massive refunds sent. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands (maybe over a million) was seized and redistributed. A few people on 2+2 reported getting as much as 7k!

The most notable thing here is the fact that you played some botlike people waiting alone.

I rarely do that. I assume most people sitting alone are good, so I only will sit in a game already running. I will join as a 3rd player often, but rarely as a second player.

Did these guys leave when a 3rd joined?

FYI the Bodog bots circa 2010 did play 6-max.

Anyway, if indeed the players you faced HU were bots, that would explain the following:

- It was botting, not collusion

- It was probably a massive ring of bots across many types of games

- I probably didn't get a refund because I don't sit with players waiting alone

Anyway, to summarize my remaining questions for you:

1) Did the suspected bots leave when a 3rd joined?

2) Did you play any game other than LHE in the past 2 months on Bovada?

3) What limits did you play below 20/40 LHE, and how much did you play?

4) Can you describe the things the bots didn't adjust to?

[BeerAndPoker]

I've played a little 20/40 and 30/60 limit holdem but more 30/60 omaha hi/lo then that and got zero. My sample size is much less then you guys.

One night I did feel some collusion was happening on a 30/60 O8 table where these guys just never stopped raising one another where they are sitting with one seat in between (ex: one guy in 3 seat and the other in the 5). They were capping it preflop with hands as bad as JJ92 without even a suit which is a horrible hand in O8. After a about two orbits I just quit because this went on just about every hand and even though I'd say it's much tougher to collude in a split pot game it still happens.

I've suspected collusion at smaller stakes too but sometimes you just don't know because players on bovada are crazy.

It's nice Bovada is refunding people but it only goes as far as what these players have in their accounts the time they get seized. With Bovada making judgement calls as to who gets what you never know how deep they are looking into this (refunding single sessions, to players who actually lost, just going off how many hands you played with these people,etc.). Some compensation is better then nothing but it's most likely never the proper amount.

[Brittney Griner's Clit]

I've played a little 20/40 and 30/60 limit holdem but more 30/60 omaha hi/lo then that and got zero. My sample size is much less then you guys.

One night I did feel some collusion was happening on a 30/60 O8 table where these guys just never stopped raising one another where they are sitting with one seat in between (ex: one guy in 3 seat and the other in the 5). They were capping it preflop with hands as bad as JJ92 without even a suit which is a horrible hand in O8. After a about two orbits I just quit because this went on just about every hand and even though I'd say it's much tougher to collude in a split pot game it still happens.

I've suspected collusion at smaller stakes too but sometimes you just don't know because players on bovada are crazy.

It's nice Bovada is refunding people but it only goes as far as what these players have in their accounts the time they get seized. With Bovada making judgement calls as to who gets what you never know how deep they are looking into this (refunding single sessions, to players who actually lost, just going off how many hands you played with these people,etc.). Some compensation is better then nothing but it's most likely never the proper amount.

Wow I welcome people to collude against me if they play that bad. WIth that said I play a lot and got 0.00 dollars.

[BeerAndPoker]

Wow I welcome people to collude against me if they play that bad. WIth that said I play a lot and got 0.00 dollars.

That is one of a few hands they weren't all that weak but some were definitely suspect. It sure looked like they were trying to trap money in and just continue to fire being maniacs which isn't as effective in O8 as it is in limit holdem but at the same time if they backdoor into something that can beat you with a funky scoop or take half the pot it's just not a spot I want to be in when I play especially if the game is short handed.

[SetofKs]

$30-60 mainly with some 20-40 and a few hands lower. played 80 hours the last week or so like a crack head so that probably helps. Below is the message they sent me

Dear Matthew,

We have concluded that players in a ring game that you were involved in have breached our terms of service. As such, their winnings have been removed, and you have been credited the appropriate amount. Please check your account balance for reference.

We are committed to providing a fun and safe place for players all over the world to enjoy poker. With that being said, we are constantly monitoring our tables as well as following up on leads from players to ensure that collusion is found and dealt with appropriately.

Should you have any questions, feel free to contact us at 1-866-909-2237.

Regards,

Bovada Poker

This actually answers a lot.

Nobody on 2+2 with a refund has said they played LHE.

But yet you play LHE (same as me -- 20/40 and 30/60), and you got a refund, while I didn't.

Seems that most refunds were to PLO, but some to NL.

Someone reported he only plays hu, which rules out collusion.

There were massive refunds sent. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands (maybe over a million) was seized and redistributed. A few people on 2+2 reported getting as much as 7k!

The most notable thing here is the fact that you played some botlike people waiting alone.

I rarely do that. I assume most people sitting alone are good, so I only will sit in a game already running. I will join as a 3rd player often, but rarely as a second player.

Did these guys leave when a 3rd joined?

FYI the Bodog bots circa 2010 did play 6-max.

Anyway, if indeed the players you faced HU were bots, that would explain the following:

- It was botting, not collusion

- It was probably a massive ring of bots across many types of games

- I probably didn't get a refund because I don't sit with players waiting alone

Anyway, to summarize my remaining questions for you:

1) Did the suspected bots leave when a 3rd joined?

2) Did you play any game other than LHE in the past 2 months on Bovada?

3) What limits did you play below 20/40 LHE, and how much did you play?

4) Can you describe the things the bots didn't adjust to?

1) I dont remember if they left when it got 3 handed or not. I didn't play too many hands against them. I'm like you and usually don't sit somebody that is waiting, but I was sitting them occasionally when there were no games going at odd hours.

2) Yes, I have played 4100 hands of plo this year ranging from 2-4 to 10-20. The refunds could have come from that. I haven't played any plo since january.

3) I played 5800 hands of 10-20 lhe this year, 1600 hands of 8-16 lhe, and 4400 hands of 5-10 hu lhe. It wouldn't be the 5-10 hu lhe i don't think because i was always sitting and waiting for a fish, and besides that i only played complete droolers at those limits.

4) pretty much when i was out of position, and it would c-bet on the flop, it would never fold when I checkraised. Like, on AK2 flop, it was floating my checkraise with 76. I got to the point where I was only checkraising the flop with 2nd pair or better, which any thinking player would've caught on to, but it was still floating the AK2 flop checkraise with shit hands like 76. I doubt I was +EV against them with the $1 rake, but I think maybe they had a higher expected loss than I did.

[SetofKs]

I've played a little 20/40 and 30/60 limit holdem but more 30/60 omaha hi/lo then that and got zero. My sample size is much less then you guys.

One night I did feel some collusion was happening on a 30/60 O8 table where these guys just never stopped raising one another where they are sitting with one seat in between (ex: one guy in 3 seat and the other in the 5). They were capping it preflop with hands as bad as JJ92 without even a suit which is a horrible hand in O8. After a about two orbits I just quit because this went on just about every hand and even though I'd say it's much tougher to collude in a split pot game it still happens.

I've suspected collusion at smaller stakes too but sometimes you just don't know because players on bovada are crazy.

It's nice Bovada is refunding people but it only goes as far as what these players have in their accounts the time they get seized. With Bovada making judgement calls as to who gets what you never know how deep they are looking into this (refunding single sessions, to players who actually lost, just going off how many hands you played with these people,etc.). Some compensation is better then nothing but it's most likely never the proper amount.

Wow I welcome people to collude against me if they play that bad. WIth that said I play a lot and got 0.00 dollars.

In 10-20 plo I used to think people were colluding against me like this. I'd see it all the time. UTG would pot, I call on the button with a decent hand, the small blind repots, and then UTG pots again and I have to get out. And it turns out UTG has AAxx, and the small blind 3bettor had something like kT84 with three spade. I swore for a while that they were colluding to get my dead money or something, because why would the small blind pot those spots with absolute garbage. But now, I don't think that was collusion, and I just think people on that site are complete idiots, and just want to get em in with anything, especially if they just lost a big pot.

[SetofKs]

It possibly has nothing to do with those guys that I'd sit in hu LHE, and I actually just played with bots in my plo games. I know joe ingram said something on his podcast about how they make really tough plo bots now.

[Sidewinder]

The group who operated the limit bots on so many sites made a killing on Bovada over the years(a lot of other sites, as well). Druff, remember that female from LA who had the big 2p2 thread after FTP confiscated her account funds? I remember your presence in that thread. Her group made a literal fortune in the limit games over the years. She operated bots for the guys who built them.

do you mind posting a link or do you remember thread title so I can do a better search? thanks

[thiefcatcher]

The group who operated the limit bots on so many sites made a killing on Bovada over the years(a lot of other sites, as well). Druff, remember that female from LA who had the big 2p2 thread after FTP confiscated her account funds? I remember your presence in that thread. Her group made a literal fortune in the limit games over the years. She operated bots for the guys who built them.

do you mind posting a link or do you remember thread title so I can do a better search? thanks

first thread - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...7-grand-41524/

part 2 - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...nd-two-131021/

She 100% was operating a bot, regardless of what is said in that thread. She's friends with the head guy who had the bots built.

[Dan Druff]

do you mind posting a link or do you remember thread title so I can do a better search? thanks

first thread - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...7-grand-41524/

part 2 - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...nd-two-131021/

She 100% was operating a bot, regardless of what is said in that thread. She's friends with the head guy who had the bots built.

Her name is Lary Kennedy. I met her in person once. She was older (like late 40s), but good looking for her age.



She looked a bit older in person than in this pic, but was definitely one of the more attractive women I've seen over 45.

She filed a lawsuit against Full Tilt for freezing her account and that of friend Greg Omotoy. Greg's account was "greggo777". Her account was "Pokergirl z".

I was familiar with Lary from two other sites -- Interpoker (where she actually complained about me for sitting with her HU when she would hit and run me and move to a different table) and Pokerroom. We became friendlier later on, and met in person in 2009. She told me in 2009 that Full Tilt was "really shady" and that she had lots of evidence of wrongdoing on their part. She didn't mention anything about Full Tilt stealing money, but I do wonder if maybe some of the things she alleged (such as Full Tilt operating its own bots as props) were true.

She actually did seem like a good player, though she clearly had tilt issues. This is why I didn't believe the botting claims. Bots don't tilt. If you would put a few beats on her, she would go crazy and start playing like a maniac.

I also didn't see much evidence of bot-like play (for example, calling down A an K high too often).

I will say that she never played ANYTHING but heads up.

Also, she clearly multiaccounted. That's why the public sentiment turned against her on 2+2. She attempted to deflect/avoid the multiaccounting question, and that killed her credibility regarding the much more serious botting accusation. She admitted to me in person that she multiaccounted, but I already knew (long before she was caught or admitted it to me).

She claimed that Full Tilt gave too much power to "Crazy Mike" Thorpe, who hated her with a passion. Mike did have a lot of influence over Full Tilt management (I know this for a fact), and she claimed that he talked them into believing she was a bot, and then they fabricated evidence on the backside to cover their tracks when the shit hit the fan.

I do know that Mike did falsely accuse several people of botting. He did legitimately catch some bots, but he also accused some innocent people of botting.

Whole thing was a huge clusterfuck.

I don't know what she's doing nowadays. I haven't heard from/about her since 2010.

[Shizzmoney]

Looks like she hit the RV and is now living on the road and settled in Austin.

I wonder if the RV had an auto-pilot:

i decided to sell my house and belongings, buy an Rv and hit the road...

my dog wolf and i will be going on an adventure of a lifetime, letting the wind decide our direction...

this blog is set up for you to follow my journey

http://larykennedy.tumblr.com/