Should Apple help government hack into the phone of dead terrorist?

[Sanlmar]

If anyones curious about what I was talking about:

http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/...k-iphones.html

The first I heard about decapping was when the Euro crimefags used it to mitigate 'smart chips' in credit cards but it doesnt take much imagination to apply it to pretty much every chip/firmware compromise tactic you can imagine.

I was fully committed to calling you and your bretheren out on some quality bullshit.

Decapping chips, drilling and reading memory with isotopes. IT guys who never touched a discrete component in their lives.

Your post stuck with me though. I looked up decapping chips just now.

The chips in this video are the simpliest you can find. Old school TTL logic - 7400 series and, nand, or, nor boolean shit. A far cry from what is inside your phone.

But I love a good hack and I am going down the rabbit hole. Still feels like horseshit.

[ftpjesus]

Hilarious to watch who was for and against apple on this one. Those who are for are probly shady/cheating scumbags with incriminating shit on their phones. Anybody who was dating someone who was strongly for apple, GET OUT

I'm a conservative and pro security however given the abuses the Feds have perpetrated upon the American people abusing and shitting on the Constitution doing likely shit tons worse then what Snowden has revealed, I don't blame Apple one damn bit. Why the fuck should Apple hand over the equivalent to Pandoras box to the Feds when they've proven repeatedly, not to be trusted to not abuse their power and abilities. Not to mention the repeated lack of security of information stolen from the Feds it would be only a matter of time before some hackers got ahold of the information or ability to do so and suddenly Apple is as hackable as that shit Droid puts out.

[ftpjesus]

I don't want the government accessing my phone remotely, but I am fine with them having access to my data if they get a warrant for the physical device.

Anyone who is against this is enabling a huge loophole for criminals to avoid prosecution (and avoiding discovery of co-conspirators).

John McAfee offered to hack the phone for free and recover the information requested however he was turned down.. Why would the Feds refuse somebodys assistance when offered to resolve this singular issue.. Its because it was NEVER about what they claimed.. The Feds wanted a backdoor into anybody and everybody's IPhone because they are infinitely more secure then the droid crap that's open source and constantly has security issues. If they wanted simply into this one phone it could've and would've been done.. They were asking for a skeleton key when only a lockpick was needed for what they CLAIMED to be asking for.

[MumblesBadly]

Apple's Case Just Got Boosted By Some Very Powerful Allies.
Tech companies are taking action against anti-encryption efforts.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/googl...b0000de4043436

[MumblesBadly]

Also, is anyone here who is in favor of Apple complying with the FBI's request willing to take Glenn Greenwald's privacy reveal challenge?

[4Dragons]

Woz weighs in

[4Dragons]

John Oliver does what John Oliver does

[FPS_Russia]

The DOJ's threatening to seize IOS code. I don't really have a dog in this fight but the top comments in this Reddit link pretty much flush Druff's position down the toilet. Even a pro Scalia comment got upvoted, wtf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/commen...e_code_unless/

[4Dragons]

The DOJ's threatening to seize IOS code. I don't really have a dog in this fight but the top comments in this Reddit link pretty much flush Druff's position down the toilet. Even a pro Scalia comment got upvoted, wtf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/commen...e_code_unless/

The answer to that action would be a new IOS version or patch that is unhackable. They would have to seize the code every single time they would want to play this game.

[Dan Druff]

My response to the Oliver video:

- Oliver's argument that "hackers can get in more easily if Apple develops a way to get past the encryption" is fallcious. Anything Apple would be doing would be in their own controlled environment, and would not affect vulnerability to hackers. Apple's argument has been twofold: 1) "We don't want to create this because it will be a disaster if it falls into the wrong hands somehow" and 2) "We are going to be constantly burdened by law enforcement demanding access to hundreds or thousands of phones". But Oliver spent a lot of time claiming that this would make it easier for hackers to break into iPhones, which would NOT be the case, provided that Apple doesn't screw up their own internal security. What Oliver is referring to is a back door which would always be accessible to law enforcement, but that's not what is being asked for with the current Apple-vs-FBI situation.

- Oliver claims that, if law enforcement can blow by iPhone passwords and get access, then the criminals will just move to underground apps not controlled by US companies in order to encrypt their data. Maybe the most sophisticated, paranoid, tech-savvy criminals will. But the average criminal or terrorist won't. Despite what you see on TV detective dramas, most criminals are incredibly careless with leaving evidence behind. The typical murderer or terror suspect will not be using these underground apps, and many wouldn't even know how to start doing so. Oliver's argument here is dumb. It's like saying that search warrants should never be issued because smart criminals will always hide incriminating evidence well enough to where it can't be found. But not all criminals are smart, and even smart ones screw up.

Funny ending, though. But it was more funny because of how they were poking at Apple over their various fails and idiotic decisions, rather than this situation.

The problem with Apple's side is that it gives the general public easy (and sometimes unintentional) ability to hide criminal evidence from the government.

A really smart and diligent criminal can always hide evidence, yes. But in this case, it's allowing people to hide evidence without even attempting to hide it! I doubt Syed Farook even knew that the government couldn't blast past his phone's password. I think his decision to shoot up his work party was hasty, sudden, and likely replaced some other future plot which was more deliberately planned. So here we're debating about getting access to hidden evidence which the terrorist himself died not even knowing that he hid it!

Simply put, it's too easy. Everyone has an iPhone. Everyone knows how to use the passcode feature. If anything, this high profile case will empower everyone to hide evidence on their phone, and many will make sure to enable that simple setting to wipe the phone after 10 wrong attempts. This includes child molesters, child pornographers, rapists, murderers, terrorists, drug dealers, etc.

Everyone now has a simple, warrant-proof way of hiding evidence, and it's literally right at their fingertips on a device they already know, love, and use. That is REALLY disturbing to me. Far more disturbing than the far-fetched concern that IF I lose my phone, and IF it's found by hackers, and IF those hackers have a tool to de-encrypt it IF Apple somehow lets their de-encryption routine somehow leave their own lab.... I mean, it's beyond far fetched that this would ever happen to the average American.

But you know what's not far fetched? You or someone you know being a victim of a crime where the most important evidence is contained in a passworded iPhone. Are you ready to let that criminal walk free? I'm not.

[Dan Druff]

And in regard to the "this is overburdensome for us" line, I call bullshit.

Apple can simply tell the government that they don't work for free, and that any law enforcement body which wants Apple to decrypt a phone needs to pay for the time of their engineers to do each one.

This isn't about money or resources, and Apple knows it.

They just don't feel like maintaining security over a tool like this, nor do they feel like fielding future law enforcement requests. They would rather avoid the whole headache. That's what this is about -- not your privacy or a high-minded concept of the value of encryption.

[Gordman]

My response to the Oliver video:

- Oliver's argument that "hackers can get in more easily if Apple develops a way to get past the encryption" is fallcious. Anything Apple would be doing would be in their own controlled environment, and would not affect vulnerability to hackers. Apple's argument has been twofold: 1) "We don't want to create this because it will be a disaster if it falls into the wrong hands somehow" and 2) "We are going to be constantly burdened by law enforcement demanding access to hundreds or thousands of phones". But Oliver spent a lot of time claiming that this would make it easier for hackers to break into iPhones, which would NOT be the case, provided that Apple doesn't screw up their own internal security. What Oliver is referring to is a back door which would always be accessible to law enforcement, but that's not what is being asked for with the current Apple-vs-FBI situation.

- Oliver claims that, if law enforcement can blow by iPhone passwords and get access, then the criminals will just move to underground apps not controlled by US companies in order to encrypt their data. Maybe the most sophisticated, paranoid, tech-savvy criminals will. But the average criminal or terrorist won't. Despite what you see on TV detective dramas, most criminals are incredibly careless with leaving evidence behind. The typical murderer or terror suspect will not be using these underground apps, and many wouldn't even know how to start doing so. Oliver's argument here is dumb. It's like saying that search warrants should never be issued because smart criminals will always hide incriminating evidence well enough to where it can't be found. But not all criminals are smart, and even smart ones screw up.

Funny ending, though. But it was more funny because of how they were poking at Apple over their various fails and idiotic decisions, rather than this situation.

The problem with Apple's side is that it gives the general public easy (and sometimes unintentional) ability to hide criminal evidence from the government.

A really smart and diligent criminal can always hide evidence, yes. But in this case, it's allowing people to hide evidence without even attempting to hide it! I doubt Syed Farook even knew that the government couldn't blast past his phone's password. I think his decision to shoot up his work party was hasty, sudden, and likely replaced some other future plot which was more deliberately planned. So here we're debating about getting access to hidden evidence which the terrorist himself died not even knowing that he hid it!

Simply put, it's too easy. Everyone has an iPhone. Everyone knows how to use the passcode feature. If anything, this high profile case will empower everyone to hide evidence on their phone, and many will make sure to enable that simple setting to wipe the phone after 10 wrong attempts. This includes child molesters, child pornographers, rapists, murderers, terrorists, drug dealers, etc.

Everyone now has a simple, warrant-proof way of hiding evidence, and it's literally right at their fingertips on a device they already know, love, and use. That is REALLY disturbing to me. Far more disturbing than the far-fetched concern that IF I lose my phone, and IF it's found by hackers, and IF those hackers have a tool to de-encrypt it IF Apple somehow lets their de-encryption routine somehow leave their own lab.... I mean, it's beyond far fetched that this would ever happen to the average American.

But you know what's not far fetched? You or someone you know being a victim of a crime where the most important evidence is contained in a passworded iPhone. Are you ready to let that criminal walk free? I'm not.

Everyone now has a simple, warrant-proof way of hiding evidence, and it's literally right at their fingertips on a device they already know, love, and use. That is REALLY disturbing to me.

I completely agree and I've thought and felt this from the beginning. Yes, its a conondrum, because...privacy, but the bottom line is It's dangerous on so many levels

Even take the case of Pedophiles for example. Everyone think about that deal for a moment. What a handy little foolproof tool for the sickos now

[BobbyOrr]

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

My response to the Oliver video:

- Oliver's argument that "hackers can get in more easily if Apple develops a way to get past the encryption" is fallcious. Anything Apple would be doing would be in their own controlled environment, and would not affect vulnerability to hackers. Apple's argument has been twofold: 1) "We don't want to create this because it will be a disaster if it falls into the wrong hands somehow" and 2) "We are going to be constantly burdened by law enforcement demanding access to hundreds or thousands of phones". But Oliver spent a lot of time claiming that this would make it easier for hackers to break into iPhones, which would NOT be the case, provided that Apple doesn't screw up their own internal security. What Oliver is referring to is a back door which would always be accessible to law enforcement, but that's not what is being asked for with the current Apple-vs-FBI situation.

- Oliver claims that, if law enforcement can blow by iPhone passwords and get access, then the criminals will just move to underground apps not controlled by US companies in order to encrypt their data. Maybe the most sophisticated, paranoid, tech-savvy criminals will. But the average criminal or terrorist won't. Despite what you see on TV detective dramas, most criminals are incredibly careless with leaving evidence behind. The typical murderer or terror suspect will not be using these underground apps, and many wouldn't even know how to start doing so. Oliver's argument here is dumb. It's like saying that search warrants should never be issued because smart criminals will always hide incriminating evidence well enough to where it can't be found. But not all criminals are smart, and even smart ones screw up.

Funny ending, though. But it was more funny because of how they were poking at Apple over their various fails and idiotic decisions, rather than this situation.

The problem with Apple's side is that it gives the general public easy (and sometimes unintentional) ability to hide criminal evidence from the government.

A really smart and diligent criminal can always hide evidence, yes. But in this case, it's allowing people to hide evidence without even attempting to hide it! I doubt Syed Farook even knew that the government couldn't blast past his phone's password. I think his decision to shoot up his work party was hasty, sudden, and likely replaced some other future plot which was more deliberately planned. So here we're debating about getting access to hidden evidence which the terrorist himself died not even knowing that he hid it!

Simply put, it's too easy. Everyone has an iPhone. Everyone knows how to use the passcode feature. If anything, this high profile case will empower everyone to hide evidence on their phone, and many will make sure to enable that simple setting to wipe the phone after 10 wrong attempts. This includes child molesters, child pornographers, rapists, murderers, terrorists, drug dealers, etc.

Everyone now has a simple, warrant-proof way of hiding evidence, and it's literally right at their fingertips on a device they already know, love, and use. That is REALLY disturbing to me. Far more disturbing than the far-fetched concern that IF I lose my phone, and IF it's found by hackers, and IF those hackers have a tool to de-encrypt it IF Apple somehow lets their de-encryption routine somehow leave their own lab.... I mean, it's beyond far fetched that this would ever happen to the average American.

But you know what's not far fetched? You or someone you know being a victim of a crime where the most important evidence is contained in a passworded iPhone. Are you ready to let that criminal walk free? I'm not.

[4Dragons]

Don't mind me, just pundit dropping

[FPS_Russia]

I had what alcoholics refer to as a "moment of clarity".
Lol we were really debating this as if there's a chance every Iphone is going to remain untouchable to any and all law enforcement. That's so fucking absurd lol.

This whole deal could be a ruse. Maybe Snowden's leaks caused a bit of a intelligence gathering black hole. They need everyone to let down their guard a lil bit. Next thing you know every isis knucklehead has an iphone or some shit.

[Sanlmar]

Love this. Read a dozen books about Jobs. This just clicked. Sweet Irony.

Steve Jobs' father was a Syrian Muslim migrant.

His father’s name is Abdulfattah Jandali. His parents were two graduate students who weren’t sure if they were ready for a kid so put him up for adoption.

Jandali had a string of failed businesses. At one point a restaurant, Jobs once frequented unknowing of who the proprietor was.

Abdulfattah Jandali. “‘I wish you could have seen me when I was running a bigger restaurant… Everybody used to come there… Even Steve Jobs used to eat there. Yeah, he was a great tipper".

Jobs never got in touch with his biological father after learning his identity through his half sister.

Abdulfattah Jandali is a Executive - Vice President of a Reno casino.

Steve Jobs relationship with wives, girlfriends, children and parents was absolutely fascinating and hard core.

[ftpjesus]

And with that its done.. Case against Apple dropped as apparently FBI got into the phone either over the weekend or earlier today.

[4Dragons]

And with that its done.. Case against Apple dropped as apparently FBI got into the phone either over the weekend or earlier today.

FBI uses mystery method to break into gunman's iPhone without Apple's help, ending court case

Justice Depart. withdraws legal action against Apple over San Bernardino iPhone



The Justice Department withdrew its legal action against Apple, Monday, confirming that an outside method to bypass the locking function of a San Bernardino terrorist’s phone has proved successful.

The method brought to the FBI earlier this month by an unidentified entity allows investigators to crack the security function without erasing contents of the iPhone used by Syed Farook, who with his wife, Tashfeen Malik, carried out the December mass shooting that left 14 dead.

"The government has now successfully accessed the data stored on Farook's iPhone and therefore no longer requires the assistance from Apple Inc.,'' Justice lawyers said in a two-page filing in a California federal magistrate's court.

Justice spokeswoman Melanie Newman said the FBI is reviewing the contents of the phone, "consistent with standard investigatory procedures.''


"We will continue to pursue all available options for this mission, including seeking the cooperation of manufacturers and relying upon the creativity of both the public and private sectors,” Newman said.

Apple had no immediate comment.
Monday's action culminates six weeks of building tensions.

Since a federal magistrate in California in mid-February ordered Apple to assist the FBI in gaining access to Farook's seized iPhone, the legal filings and rhetoric between the world’s most valuable technology company and the federal government's premier law enforcement agency had sharpened into verbal vitriol. The foes were poised to face off in a court room in Riverside, Calif., last week before the Justice Department abruptly asked for — and was granted — a postponement.

Apple CEO Tim Cook has called the request to override the passcode encryption akin to creating a "backdoor" into the iPhone, and crusaded in a highly coordinated public campaign against the dangers of weakened security in digital devices. This month, Apple said the “Founding Fathers would be appalled” because the government’s order to unlock the iPhone was based on what it said was non-existent authority asserted by the DOJ.

The tech industry has stood behind Apple, which in court documents said the government's order was "neither grounded in the common law nor authorized by statute."

Government law enforcement officials have denied charges the FBI wanted to establish a backdoor to Apple's encryption, and swatted away accusations that they were using the case to gain broader access to consumers' devices.

"The San Bernardino case was not about trying to send a message or set a precedent; it was and is about fully investigating a terrorist attack,'' FBI Director James Comey wrote in an editorial last week.

[simpdog]

Other stories reporting the FBI had help from an unnamed third party.

Very LOL now Apple is begging for the exploit before it gets in the wrong hands.

[GrenadaRoger]

as simpdog indicated now that the FBI has broken the security code (supposedly), Apple wants to be told how it was done

so after not helping the FBI, now Apples wants their help to patch the hack

amazing--Apple's selfishness