BILLIONS on Showtime

[sonatine]

So Koppelman immersed himself in the underground NY poker clubs before Moneymaker was a thing. He had a story to tell populated with interesting characters.

Koppelman did the same thing here. I particularly liked his stories of lunches & dinners with the hedge fund guys he interviewed. He admits Rounders gave him entre with these billionaires he wouldn't otherwise have had.

The billionaires would order the most expensive wine for lunch and raise their finger to order more. They were not going to deliver information for Koppelman's story without somehow winning in the exchange. The check would be thousands and it would hurt Koppelman. It wasn't the meal but the pain they could deliver. GG

Koppelman's interviews with AG's were equally interesting. The obvious question was posed. "Why would you continue making $175k when you could be making healthy 7 figures with a firm?" The answer, "because I get to decide which cases to pursue and which to let slide. It's the power."

I actually found the AG side of Billions more interesting & insightful.

The story has been told imo. I loved the last season 1 episode. For the same reason nobody needs a Rounder II - I will prolly pass on Billions season 2.

In hindsight, Sonatine has some valid criticism. I ascribe some of the fail to the merry-go-round of directors. Relationship shit from one director. Emphasis on visual symbolism from another. It sometimes seemed disjointed.

Was Billions great? There were HOF moments. I enjoyed trying to cypher out Koppelman's message. Koppelman has credibility and talent and I wanted to see what he did.

Honestly I prolly garnered more enjoyment listening to the backstories and research than the actual show.

i mean, i find both cultures fascinating. but yeah my principle concern here remains; this show is hamfisted. without any actual plot to work with, they simply dial up everyones character flaws to eleventeen and rely on them to drive the show.

also whats getting profoundly tedious is how lopsided it is; there really isnt much going on with the trader camp to make me interested in seeing justice done. and that undermines the motives of the AG to the point where it really does seem vindictive and petty, and i really fucking dont need a show about how Big Government is going after the poor oppressed billionaire who outsmarted the system, thats fucking retarded shit right there. thats the dudes in Boiler Room memorizing every line of Wall Street. its a shitty political meme that lionizes the worst of the worst types off assclowns. and unless they do something to course correct next week, i feel thats the exact dumpster this thing is going to smolder in.

[Sanlmar]

"There isn't much going on in the trader camp"

Bingo. Hedge fund (trader) culture and trader life wasn't mined. I don't think Koppelman ever had or pursued access.

The day to day decisions aren't made by guys like Axe. The pressure to produce. The decision to use "Dark Edge", "Grey Edge" or "White Edge" information. Axe sets the tone but how his managers and traders trade is another thing.

The whole trader floor thing coulda been cool and revealing.

Black Edge is inside information and is illegal. You can extrapolate the rest. I love the term just for the language. There is so much other great vernacular that a writer would have loved and incorporated but it wasn't to be.

Relationships traders have to industry. How these relationships develop and the decision to risk using Dark Edge by the grinders on the floor who gotta make their numbers and their reputation.

Rounders excelled at the language, details and lifestyle. It was the details and seediness that got you immersed in the story.

Billions in comparison seems so broad brush and simplistic. Billions was an attempted insight into a phenomenon of its time with a unique culture much like Rounders. It wasn't another fucking crime drama. Fresh subject matter. On the continuum it rated pretty high.

I need a compelling reason to continue and I'm not feeling it.

[lol wow]

lol hockey guy nothing i say can dissuade you but the first episode is so bad like the guy who is trying to play the creepy investigator marrrrrrronnnne

it also makes sense cuz showtime is terrible at shows and if it didnt come bundled i would literally cancel out of protest

[Hockey Guy]

lol hockey guy nothing i say can dissuade you but the first episode is so bad like the guy who is trying to play the creepy investigator marrrrrrronnnne

it also makes sense cuz showtime is terrible at shows and if it didnt come bundled i would literally cancel out of protest

 

I apologize. That was uncalled for. Here's something to make up for that unwarranted attack:

 

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

I enjoyed it but then again nothing else was on to watch at the time so....

It always seems the lead up to a issue is the best part, most shows have a middle to end problem. I think once we figure out what is happening and can start to fill in the future it loses appeal.

But again, when nothing else is on.

[sonatine]

"There isn't much going on in the trader camp"

Bingo. Hedge fund (trader) culture and trader life wasn't mined. I don't think Koppelman ever had or pursued access.

The day to day decisions aren't made by guys like Axe. The pressure to produce. The decision to use "Dark Edge", "Grey Edge" or "White Edge" information. Axe sets the tone but how his managers and traders trade is another thing.

The whole trader floor thing coulda been cool and revealing.

Black Edge is inside information and is illegal. You can extrapolate the rest. I love the term just for the language. There is so much other great vernacular that a writer would have loved and incorporated but it wasn't to be.

Relationships traders have to industry. How these relationships develop and the decision to risk using Dark Edge by the grinders on the floor who gotta make their numbers and their reputation.

Dude whats so frustrating is that its really not impossible to spin up a compelling narrative about bleeding edge trading. Its almost like he's scared to. The Big Short? Both the book and the movie were great. Recast those characters getting their paws filthy with grey/black wheeling and dealing and Im fucking there. Im so interested. HFT, information warfare, currency manipulation, there is so much to work with without even dipping the tip of ones wang into the political side.

But this show seems allergic to all that stuff.

Also Im just cutting Rounders out of this conversation entirely. Poker Bustouts is real life, Rounders is what the stars of Poker Bustouts watch to feel like they have a chance.

They do not have a chance.

[Tegnation22]

I watched the Season 2 premiere on Charter On demand this week....doesn't it premiere tonight? Interesting that it was already On demand.

[lol wow]

two things that have no right being good that are actually great/enjoyable is incorporated on syfy all 10 should be on demand
and six on history

[lol wow]

an obv you season pass fuck thats delicious on viceland

[sonatine]

two things that have no right being good that are actually great/enjoyable is incorporated on syfy all 10 should be on demand
and six on history

until the world stands up and says with one voice that Arrival was mundane and deeply flawed, im taking a pass on science fiction.

[lol wow]

wrong also the jaw structure on the lead actor is stunning

[lol wow]

and arrival was great you fat dicksuck

[lol wow]

i was on the fence about twittering my calamari and pinot grigio at lunch and honestly i now have to cuz you need the culture you sad broken man not able to appreciate arrival and the honest depiction of loss vs memory

[sonatine]

right because hyper intelligent time traveling aliens were clearly going to just show up, hang out for months playing mahjong, and then refer to their gift of time travel as a weapon accidentally.

[lol wow]

they look like hand octopuses bro and their language was a tool not a weapon

[lol wow]

rofl there was no ink blot for fat bearded cynicism in their language bro

[sonatine]

THEY LITERALLY TROTTED OUT THE WORD WEAPON TO DESCRIBE IT, THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT MADE ANYTHING ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN THAT ENTIRE MOVIE, STOP ENABLING IT, AMY ADAMS IS NOT YOUR WAIFU.

[lol wow]

cuz us dumb humans couldnt distinguish between tool and weapon in our limited cue card language honestly im gonna need you to take a centrum silver and calm down

[lol wow]

maybe watch a little incorporated

[sonatine]

how about the time they sat there for like 15 minutes doing sign language about how great the sammy davis jr episode of all in the family was while a fucking bomb ticked down 30 feet away, but decided to ignore it until the literal seconds before it exploded, at which point one of them managed to die from its blast, despite existing in a non-linear time narrative so they knew perfectly fucking well the bomb was there.

that was some dynamite writing and definitely not the product of like 20+ rewrites because michael crichton wouldnt return anyones calls.