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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    poker advice

    Please serious replies .

    Your sitting 8 from the bubble in a good size$$$ gtd Mtt..

    Your low on chips but can fold into money, maybe. Do you go for the win??
    I

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    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    Please serious replies .

    Your sitting 8 from the bubble in a good size$$$ gtd Mtt..

    Your low on chips but can fold into money, maybe. Do you go for the win??
    I
    You're not providing nearly enough details
    What are the table dynamics
    How is your stack relative to the others
    Does the big stack appear to be bullying
    How many bb's do you have
    When does the current level end
    Are you playing higher than you typically play because you satellite'd in
    Are you a bad player

     
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      thesparten: tx

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    Please serious replies .

    Your sitting 8 from the bubble in a good size$$$ gtd Mtt..

    Your low on chips but can fold into money, maybe. Do you go for the win??
    I


    depends on what 'low on chips' means

    if you're way short....then yes, stall your ass off and creep into the money

    but, if you're not playing to win, you have no business playing MTTs in the first place

    in this case with 8 left and 'low on chips'...then of course stall and cash

    but you didn't give us much info to go on..

    (buy in, total entries, stack sizes, your starting hand etc)

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    How Could You? WillieMcFML's Avatar
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    thesparten is an eagle

    also this thread sucks

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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    I'm a donk..

    I have 10 bb..

    5 people have 4 or less..

    On my table were both chip leaders kicking my ass and taking my lunch money..

    I raised pre flop on button with a,k off. They both called. The flop was j,8,6 no danger of flush. I call they rasied I reraise d andI went all in..

    It was for 30$ entry which is very high for me..

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    I'm a donk..

    I have 10 bb..

    5 people have 4 or less..

    On my table were both chip leaders kicking my ass and taking my lunch money..

    I raised pre flop on button with a,k off. They both called. The flop was j,8,6 no danger of flush. I call they rasied, I went all in..

    It was for 30$ entry which is very high for me..


    lol dude why are you 'raising' with A/K in that spot into big stacks with only 10 bb's from the button ?

    insta shove preflop without hesitation...bubble or no bubble

     
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      thesparten: tx

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    Welcher jsearles22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    I'm a donk..

    I have 10 bb..

    5 people have 4 or less..

    On my table were both chip leaders kicking my ass and taking my lunch money..

    I raised pre flop on button with a,k off. They both called. The flop was j,8,6 no danger of flush. I call they rasied I reraise d andI went all in..

    It was for 30$ entry which is very high for me..

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    It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?

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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    I'm a donk..

    I have 10 bb..

    5 people have 4 or less..

    On my table were both chip leaders kicking my ass and taking my lunch money..

    I raised pre flop on button with a,k off. They both called. The flop was j,8,6 no danger of flush. I call they rasied, I went all in..

    It was for 30$ entry which is very high for me..


    lol dude why are you 'raising' with A/K in that spot into big stacks with only 10 bb's from the button ?

    insta shove preflop without hesitation...bubble or no bubble
    I c the mistake now. I didn't scare them with that b s raise and gave them the flop.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Are we talking about something like 36 places being paid where you are 8 away or something like 126 spots paid?

    8 spots away from cashing is a HUGE difference in that case.

    As others said a lot of variables go into play.

    How fast is the blind structure? Are the blinds going up in the next few minutes?

    How many opponents in the field have way less chips then you?

    In the spot in question is your opponent bullying because he has a lot of chips or making moves because he don't have any?

    Their are other things to consider but as for the hand in question you look down at AK having a 10bb stack and you should never be min raising here. It's a snap shove in a typical structured tournament from any position with 10bbs but even more so in mid to late position.

    The only time AK can be a fold preflop here imo is if this was a flat payout satellite which then it depends on making an educated analysis on whether you can cash without getting involved with your current stack or not.

    Not a place to min raise and get cute with AK on a 10bb stack because you are likely to get looked up at least by one person given the pot odds and their range will be VERY wide so unless you hit something on the flop you will be beat a lot or be put into a bunch of tough situations which can be avoided by shipping AK preflop.

     
    Comments
      
      thesparten: as akways,,,tx brother
      
      jsearles22: Less chips THAN you
      
      4Dragons: jsizzle, nobody believes you did well in english class
      
      Hockey Guy: fuck off jsearles, this is a great answer.
      
      nunbeater: solid poker advice

  10. #10
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    i believe this is an Independent Chip Model problem...


    Independent Chip Modeling (ICM) determines your equity share of the prize pool in a tournament based on the stack sizes of the remaining opponents and the probability of your finish. With these probabilities, a dollar value can be associated with your stack size.

    ICM is usually much more prevalent in SNGs, but can also apply when there are large payout jumps at the final table of a tournament. Most experienced SNG players are very familiar with ICM and it’s use, but may not understand the mechanics behind it, or how to calculate it by hand.


    http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/icm/


    http://www.icmpoker.com/icmcalculator/


    then it is a matter of assessing the equity of your stack vs you hand strength
    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 07-07-2015 at 08:36 PM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Are we talking about something like 36 places being paid where you are 8 away or something like 126 spots paid?

    8 spots away from cashing is a HUGE difference in that case.

    As others said a lot of variables go into play.

    How fast is the blind structure? Are the blinds going up in the next few minutes?

    How many opponents in the field have way less chips then you?

    In the spot in question is your opponent bullying because he has a lot of chips or making moves because he don't have any?

    Their are other things to consider but as for the hand in question you look down at AK having a 10bb stack and you should never be min raising here. It's a snap shove in a typical structured tournament from any position with 10bbs but even more so in mid to late position.

    The only time AK can be a fold preflop here imo is if this was a flat payout satellite which then it depends on making an educated analysis on whether you can cash without getting involved with your current stack or not.

    Not a place to min raise and get cute with AK on a 10bb stack because you are likely to get looked up at least by one person given the pot odds and their range will be VERY wide so unless you hit something on the flop you will be beat a lot or be put into a bunch of tough situations which can be avoided by shipping AK preflop.
    12 spots being paid wIth 20 people left and 5 only had a couple of bb...

    My mistake was not shoving.. I kinda wanted it both ways.. I froze..

    Next time in that position il just shove and let it work itself out.

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    Don't forget guys 4 years ago I didn't know what was black Friday and if a straight beat a flush or visa versa..

    I learned on club wpt and became a fan of poker...

    Getting a 5$ check in the mail from them was very exciting. When I finally tabled for the omega watch. I was screaming on every flop .

    I've come a long way. Now I'm a competent donk. As well as a big supporter and cheerleader of online poker.

     
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      big dick: just don't ever stop depositing please

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    Platinum herbertstemple's Avatar
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    Wait till all but the last few seconds of your time bank are gone then shove.

     
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      thesparten: i will, thanks... .naje them think um nervous

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post

    12 spots being paid wIth 20 people left and 5 only had a couple of bb...

    My mistake was not shoving.. I kinda wanted it both ways.. I froze..

    Next time in that position il just shove and let it work itself out.
    You are so far away from the money in that case because 20 left with 12 spots to be paid means just over 3 tables so it's not like 8 people are going to bounce out of the tournament compared to something where say 63 or more places pay which so many tables still left meaning more hands going on for people to continue to drop out of the tournament.

    Shove that AK all day! Even if your intent is not wanting to miss out on a min cash which it shouldn't be for mtts you are just so far away from cashing you need 40% of the field left to bust and that could take even a few blind levels for it to happen.

    Next time in similar scenario don't just shove in that position with the AK on 10bbs shove it from any position unless maybe it's the stonecold bubble needing one guy to bust who is holding out 2bbs then you can re-evaluate how much the min cash means to you.

    jsearles- This isn't a 100% correct grammar thread/forum when something so little in comparison to what I posted is extremely irrelevant here. I could go brutalize several of your posts too if I wanted but what is the point?

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    Platinum herbertstemple's Avatar
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    After thinking about this spot a little more I would like to revise and extend my remarks.

    I think it is dependent on the other small stack sizes. If there are smaller stacks that will bust the next time through the blinds or even if they double or triple up you would still be ahead of them you should consider folding AK here.

    So early in position, you are probably getting a couple of calls from the largest stacks just to get rid of you. Likely your win % is well less then 50%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    I'm a donk..

    I have 10 bb..

    5 people have 4 or less..

    On my table were both chip leaders kicking my ass and taking my lunch money..

    I raised pre flop on button with a,k off. They both called. The flop was j,8,6 no danger of flush. I call they rasied I reraise d andI went all in..

    It was for 30$ entry which is very high for me..
    How can you be so bad?How long have you been playing for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    Please serious replies .

    Your sitting 8 from the bubble in a good size$$$ gtd Mtt..

    Your low on chips but can fold into money, maybe. Do you go for the win??
    I

    Shove the big pockets pairs.
    Set mine on the cheap if you can. Nothing like five people in a limped pot and you hit your set of 4's, cha ching.
    Stall before folding unless tables are synchro'd
    And FFS don't overplay AK.
    Shove over a single limper you got a read on.
    edit
    Second thought, I'd shove AK and be pissed the big stack w/ 8 3 o just took me out.
    Last edited by FPS_Russia; 07-08-2015 at 03:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FPS_Russia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesparten View Post
    Please serious replies .

    Your sitting 8 from the bubble in a good size$$$ gtd Mtt..

    Your low on chips but can fold into money, maybe. Do you go for the win??
    I

    Shove the big pockets pairs.
    Set mine on the cheap if you can. Nothing like five people in a limped pot and you hit your set of 4's, cha ching.
    Stall before folding unless tables are synchro'd
    And FFS don't overplay AK.

    edit
    Second thought, I'd shove AK and be pissed the big stack w/ 8 3 o just took me out.



    with only 10 big blinds behind...there's no such thing as overplaying A/K

    if he had shoved from the button there, the small and big blind most likely don't make that call.

    Unless they're super deep stacked

    thesparten never said what the stack sizes were (or what the small and big blinds showed), but only raising there was obv a huge mistake

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    At WSOP Main Day 1, some short stack shoved and a guy at the table actually said he folded TT!

    I think the shover had 77 or something and showed it.

    Anyway, the tight go to my left said he agreed with the folding of TT!

    I was in the BB and was last to fold, but got complete trash like 94o and it was easy.

    When I heard about the TT, I said, "If I looked down and saw TT, I would have said 'Call' before the cards were face down again."

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    At WSOP Main Day 1, some short stack shoved and a guy at the table actually said he folded TT!

    I think the shover had 77 or something and showed it.

    Anyway, the tight go to my left said he agreed with the folding of TT!

    I was in the BB and was last to fold, but got complete trash like 94o and it was easy.

    When I heard about the TT, I said, "If I looked down and saw TT, I would have said 'Call' before the cards were face down again."
    Weird hand for sure Druff and no offense meant here but what does this have to do with bubble play?

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