Greg Raymer (again) proposes lousy staking deal on YouStake

[Daly]

I have a complaint about one of the 3-4 stakes China ran. He only made me 20% profit in three months. The others were much higher.

Just Saying.

[chinamaniac]

I have a complaint about one of the 3-4 stakes China ran. He only made me 20% profit in three months. The others were much higher.

Just Saying.

[JoeD]

Raymer is now selling individual WSOP events - how can he do this separate from his "year long" undefined tournament/cash game package he sold to investors in January? How pissed would you be if you invested in January and he binks one of the tournaments with a large payout at the WSOP?

[ftpjesus]

Raymer is now selling individual WSOP events - how can he do this separate from his "year long" undefined tournament/cash game package he sold to investors in January? How pissed would you be if you invested in January and he binks one of the tournaments with a large payout at the WSOP?

It depends on how Raymer frames this. Although it does immediately make one suspect he's already imploded a chunk of his original stake he tried to raise.. Raymer definitely needs to clarify immediately how those who bought in January will be involved with his WSOP staking. Technically the implication was this would include WSOP when he originally opened it up if not then he owes an explanation why not.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Nice man. You look good without the beard. I like that selfie

[BeerAndPoker]

[Charham]

Raymer is now selling individual WSOP events - how can he do this separate from his "year long" undefined tournament/cash game package he sold to investors in January? How pissed would you be if you invested in January and he binks one of the tournaments with a large payout at the WSOP?

It depends on how Raymer frames this. Although it does immediately make one suspect he's already imploded a chunk of his original stake he tried to raise.. Raymer definitely needs to clarify immediately how those who bought in January will be involved with his WSOP staking. Technically the implication was this would include WSOP when he originally opened it up if not then he owes an explanation why not.

I assume no public railing reports. Any commentary from his investors that you have seen ? I looked around and can't find anything. Not sure how much he finally raised. He lost the entire stake the previous year. These staking sites better hope a securities regulator doesn't take a hard look.

[JoeD]

My favorite part of his new investor solicitation posted on 2+2, where he is asking a markup of anywhere between 1.10 and 1.20 depending upon amount invested, is:

"In case you're wondering, all of this markup will go to the year-long bankroll, not to me personally. In a sense, you are buying from that group of investors, not from me personally. Of course, I stand behind this, not avoiding any personal responsibility to play my best or anything."

Seems more like pyramid scheme 101 to me.

[simpdog]

Maybe the year long people voted to take a guaranteed 10-20% markup rather than investing in him at the wsop.

[Dan Druff]

I kinda let this whole thing get away from me and I stopped following it.

Can someone explain how he is selling individual pieces after he sold his entire action (including cash) to people before? How is he separating them?

Please link relevant 2+2 threads.

[NaturalBornHustler]

I'm gonna say he specifically eliminated all WSOP events when he sold his action in the beginning of the year, and his vict... I mean investors probably knew this going in.

[JoeD]

Since I find this kind of interesting, I'll try to link (never done it before here and I can't get it to open in this message, sorry).

Earlier this week, Raymer started a thread in the 2+2 Live Staking Marketplace regarding some higher buy in WSOP events. It may have been on Youstake longer, I'm not sure.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...vents-1612217/


Since he is losing the bankroll he solicited in January 2016 (he admits so in the thread), this is some sort of "add on" package for new/other/the same investors.

Among other notable things to me is the following:

"In case you're wondering, all of this markup will go to the year-long bankroll, not to me personally. In a sense, you are buying from that group of investors, not from me personally. Of course, I stand behind this, not avoiding any personal responsibility to play my best or anything."

It's like he's leveraging the prior investments with the hopes of a big return at the WSOP - which may or may not include his own funds at this point(?). This is in addition to the concerns Druff raised in January 2016, which includes the lack of accountability of funds since he is including both MTTs and cash (at his sole discretion).

All I can say is that I would be real unhappy as a January 2016 investor if he binks one of these large WSOP buyins.

[Dan Druff]

Are they deleting messages about this on 2+2?

How has not a single person questioned him in this 5 days since it was posted?

[JoeD]

Are they deleting messages about this on 2+2?

How has not a single person questioned him in this 5 days since it was posted?

As far as I know, there's been just one taker and no other messages/questions.

In fairness to Greg, it seems to me like the Live Staking Marketplace is really slow right now as compared to prior years (I confess I've dabbled a little bit with live staking the last few years even though it's a losing proposition).

[Dan Druff]

In case Greg deletes it, here is the message:

Since the yearlong bankroll isn’t large enough to justify playing larger buyin events at the WSOP this year, I am selling action in individual events to make the buyin reasonable for that bankroll. The minimum piece will be 5% ($500) plus markup. If you buy 1 piece, the markup is 1.2, and the total price of 5% of that single event will be $600. If you buy 2-3 pieces, markup is 1.15, and each piece will cost $575. If you buy 4 or more pieces, markup is 1.1, and each piece will cost $550. I am also selling action to these events on www.YouStake.com, the markup there is 1.2, plus the site also charges a 5% fee. Minimum price of a piece on YouStake is just $20.

In case you're wondering, all of this markup will go to the year-long bankroll, not to me personally. In a sense, you are buying from that group of investors, not from me personally. Of course, I stand behind this, not avoiding any personal responsibility to play my best or anything.

I have listed below the events for which I am going to sell action. All of these are $10,000 championship events. If you wish to buy 5% or more in 1 or more events, please contact me here via PM, or at www.FossilManPoker.com/contact.html. Payment accepted via PayPal, Venmo, and cash in Vegas. Other methods might be doable, if we can figure it out. If you want to buy smaller pieces, go to www.YouStake.com, and search under "Raymer" to find these 7 packages. You can also use signup code "BACKGREG".

All backers will get the full write-up and report for the event(s) they are invested in, and you can follow me in real time at www.twitter.com/FossilMan. All winnings will be paid as quickly as feasible. If the win is large enough, you may be required to provide relevant tax information and/or sign some paperwork indicating the amount you are winning prior to being paid.

Thanks, Greg


Date Event Game
June 8 11 Dealers Choice https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=684
June 11 16 no-limit 2-7 single draw https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=685
June 13 20 Razz https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=686
June 15 24 HORSE https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=687
June 19 32 Omaha8 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=688
June 25 43 Stud–8 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=689
June 27 47 Triple Draw 2-7 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=690

Okay... so a few questions:

1) Has he revealed how much he has lost of the original bankroll?

2) Has he revealed which games he played on the original bankroll?

3) Has he revealed which other WSOP events (presumably smaller ones?) he is playing on the original bankroll?

4) Is there an indication how much was bought of him from the early 2016 solicitation for funds?


Funny how he is now specifying exact events he wants to play, and the exact percentage you will own of him. This is in direct contrast to "give me money, I'll play poker, and I'll tell you if I win" BS he was peddling earlier, and of course no shady "I'm investing my own money and that of other investors', too" crap, which could be a trick to freeroll people.

So this is the type of package he should have offered in the first place.

With that said, I have seen no evidence that he is competent at games besides NL Holdem, especially at the level to what you need to compete with $10k players.

I can tell you from playing the $10k Limit Holdem event that it starts off with a surprising number of fish, but the later stages of it is filled with really tough players. So basically you have to be a good player yourself to have a chance at that point, barring massive luckboxing.

[JoeD]

In case Greg deletes it, here is the message:

Since the yearlong bankroll isn’t large enough to justify playing larger buyin events at the WSOP this year, I am selling action in individual events to make the buyin reasonable for that bankroll. The minimum piece will be 5% ($500) plus markup. If you buy 1 piece, the markup is 1.2, and the total price of 5% of that single event will be $600. If you buy 2-3 pieces, markup is 1.15, and each piece will cost $575. If you buy 4 or more pieces, markup is 1.1, and each piece will cost $550. I am also selling action to these events on www.YouStake.com, the markup there is 1.2, plus the site also charges a 5% fee. Minimum price of a piece on YouStake is just $20.

In case you're wondering, all of this markup will go to the year-long bankroll, not to me personally. In a sense, you are buying from that group of investors, not from me personally. Of course, I stand behind this, not avoiding any personal responsibility to play my best or anything.

I have listed below the events for which I am going to sell action. All of these are $10,000 championship events. If you wish to buy 5% or more in 1 or more events, please contact me here via PM, or at www.FossilManPoker.com/contact.html. Payment accepted via PayPal, Venmo, and cash in Vegas. Other methods might be doable, if we can figure it out. If you want to buy smaller pieces, go to www.YouStake.com, and search under "Raymer" to find these 7 packages. You can also use signup code "BACKGREG".

All backers will get the full write-up and report for the event(s) they are invested in, and you can follow me in real time at www.twitter.com/FossilMan. All winnings will be paid as quickly as feasible. If the win is large enough, you may be required to provide relevant tax information and/or sign some paperwork indicating the amount you are winning prior to being paid.

Thanks, Greg


Date Event Game
June 8 11 Dealers Choice https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=684
June 11 16 no-limit 2-7 single draw https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=685
June 13 20 Razz https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=686
June 15 24 HORSE https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=687
June 19 32 Omaha8 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=688
June 25 43 Stud–8 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=689
June 27 47 Triple Draw 2-7 https://www.youstake.com/projects?PID=690

Okay... so a few questions:

1) Has he revealed how much he has lost of the original bankroll?

2) Has he revealed which games he played on the original bankroll?

3) Has he revealed which other WSOP events (presumably smaller ones?) he is playing on the original bankroll?

4) Is there an indication how much was bought of him from the early 2016 solicitation for funds?


Funny how he is now specifying exact events he wants to play, and the exact percentage you will own of him. This is in direct contrast to "give me money, I'll play poker, and I'll tell you if I win" BS he was peddling earlier, and of course no shady "I'm investing my own money and that of other investors', too" crap, which could be a trick to freeroll people.

So this is the type of package he should have offered in the first place.

With that said, I have seen no evidence that he is competent at games besides NL Holdem, especially at the level to what you need to compete with $10k players.

I can tell you from playing the $10k Limit Holdem event that it starts off with a surprising number of fish, but the later stages of it is filled with really tough players. So basically you have to be a good player yourself to have a chance at that point, barring massive luckboxing.

No to each of your questions above.

He always references a report he prepares for the investors but that information has not become public. His Hendon Mob indicates approx. $15,000 in tournament winnings in 2016 and maybe $40,000 (quick math only) in 2015. Curiously, a la Tiger Woods, his stats seem to have gone way down post hooker scandal.

This just seems to me to be a lawsuit waiting to happen if he ever actually binks something big.

[Dan Druff]

This all smells like desperation to me.

I wouldn't trust any of this.

Now he wants everyone to back him for $70k worth of tough non-holdem events. Probably feels it's easier to luckbox a big score in one of these, given the small fields.

[FPS_Russia]

Not surprising, those Pokerstars guys were fighting over crumbs and Full Tilt let their pros enjoy a slice.

The Scheinbergs permanently sucked out what like $7 billion? or so out of the poker economy for good and left it in ruins. They had every fan boy sucking their cock while they did it.. Those same guys are still to this day sucking the Scheinberg cock only taking breaks to whine about SuperNova Elite being gutted and rake increases. ***Nobody talks about, rebuts, disputes or even mentions the extreme sums they permanently siphoned off the poker economy.***
Want some knee pads Druff?

So yeah Full tilt borrowed $300 Million in player deposits to juice the poker economy and try to ensure long term sustainability while the Scheinberg's hoarded billions for themselves.
And it's Howard that can't show his face at the WSOP smh. Your all a bunch of cock sucking sheep.

Oh wait Druff says Howard and Bitar stole the players money, WRONG Druff it was borrowed. ALMOST ALL THAT MONEY WAS FINDING IT'S WAY BACK INTO THE POKER ECONOMY, right? It was also used to advertise so more fish were available, fund high stakes games, lobby politicians, player promotions etc. All important things for the long term sustainability of the poker economy.

Scheinberg's otoh were looking for best time to jump off the sinking ship with their billions, suck it....

[Charham]

not sure why this came to mind this morning, but it doesn't look like his got staked, despite promoting the stake recently on his twitter. It looks like he has been playing small WSOP events and smaller vegas tourneys. OBV no big scores. https://youstake.com/projects?PID=689

[Dan Druff]

If I'm reading it right, he got a whopping $183 purchased of him.

Ouch.

What a fall from grace.

I really wonder where that money went. I realize that it was 12 years ago, and that he lost a lot of it to taxes.

However, he was a sponsored pro on Stars for many years, so he had that income coming in.

Wouldn't surprise me if he had a degen streak such as sports, pit games, etc. The hooker thing already proved that he's not as much of a straight arrow as we had been led to believe.