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Thread: Betcoin.ag - Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness Galore

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Betcoin.ag - Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness Galore

    Im making this post because I'm trying to get word out about the behavior of Betcoin.ag support.

    For those who don't know, Betcoin.ag offers casino games, sports betting and poker that only accepts Bitcoin and Litecoin. They have bitcoin only cash small stakes tourneys in addition to being being connected to WPN. (If you're playing a mtt on ACR or Blackchip - you might have a Betcoin player at your table.)

    They also have a forum and main chat for players and have built a small community.

    I started playing there last March and saw a lot of shady stuff going on over the next several months. Even for a bitcoin poker site.

    I intend to prove that Betcoin is guilty of the following:

    - Being fully aware of players being cheated by other players- instead of making victims whole they either:

    A - allow the cheater to keep the funds
    B - seize and keep funds for themselves
    C - Use the funds for a promotion (clearly same as B imo)

    - Not putting reasonable effort into protecting their players from being cheating both in game and in the community.

    - Being fully aware of past issues with their software which resulted in players either losing funds they shouldn't or not receiving funds they were entitled to and not compensating ALL players appropriately. (if all players suffer from same issue, all players should be compensated equally, regardless of whether all players were aware or complained about issue)

    - Being fully aware of current issues with their software which could potentially cause players to lose money and allowing them to continue.

    - Lying to players in their live player chat and moderating their forums inconsistently and unethically without explanation.

    - Blatantly lying on other forums.

    - Encouraging players to discredit those who criticize without consideration as to whether or not the criticism was valid.


    I'm going to try and break this down into a list of facts which I can prove and keep my opinions to a minimum.








    The "No Collusion Freeroll"

    Last February (a few weeks before I even joined the site) Betcoin held a 10BTC freeroll. They claimed it was inspired by catching a few colluders who had been cheating in their cash games, and they wanted to show that Betcoin had 0 tolerence for collusion, they called it the "No Collusion Freeroll" and even made the password "No Collusion" I'll be taking quotes from their official announcement and responses found here: https://www.betcoin.ag/collusion-sof...-betcoin-poker

    We have been following the play of two players in our cash games for nearly 10 days, studying hundreds of hands and receiving feedback from over 20 players that have played against them. Our findings are very clear that two players are colluding, soft playing and cheating other players. We will always protect the integrity of our poker room and have the best possible environment for our players. Their accounts have been banned and even though neither player has ever made a deposit we are allowing them to keep a small portion of the funds.

    The remainder and majority of the funds will be dispersed to players that were cheated and used to host a 10 btc freeroll next Sunday February 15, 2015 to make the message clear that collusion, soft play, and cheating will not be tolerated at Betcoin Poker ever and that swift and decisive action will be taken.

    If you suspect collusion, soft play or any type of cheating at anytime, please message us immediately. ZERO TOLERANCE at Betcoin Poker.

    Password for the 10 BTC Anti-Collusion Freeroll is: NoCollusion
    They think any money they "find" in a cheaters account belongs to them and expect players to thank them for being so generous to give some of it back. Heck they even gave the original cheaters who never even deposit some money.

    Oh by the way, after giving him some of the money he had stolen they also allowed at least one of the original colluders to PLAY IN THE NO COLLUSION FREEROLL

    (Betcoin Andrew is Staff)
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    I encourage anyone interested go read the 2 or so pages of comments. Betcoin refused to make another comment on the situation and eventually everyone just forgot about it.

    Here are a couple unanswered questions from thread:

    WTF? Are you guys serious? LOL! You have said in this thread you have ZERO TOLERANCE for collusion then come up with the excuse you like to give second chances? I am also 100% sure you knew their were many multi-accounts in this freeroll.

    The actual name of the freeroll 10 BTC ANTI-COLLUSION FREEROLL was a stupid idea.
    1. It just proves people can collude on Betcoin.
    2. People will flood your email server with accusations of colluding to get more freerolls.
    just some food for thought: 1 week after being banned, player da_killa is unbanned after "countless emails back and forth" blablabla. I report him playing again the day he is (silently) unbanned, asking what is up - he is playing on like 6-7 cashgame tables + the anti collusion freeroll (lol) that day. the very next after posting this he magically dissapears and stops playing on the site alltogether after going through all the hoops of being unbanned and instantly jumping into games once he is. so what new screenname did u give him/allow him to create ? because he surely wont stop playing 1 day after he is unbanned. this is ridiculous. please post his and drajls new screennames in here so that he doesnt have an unfair advantage at the tables (again).
    Also there still hasnt been any refunds whatsoever besides unbanning the colluder after a few days. solid priorities, tyvm.
    whoa just realzed this - "After several emails with this player and banning the other accounts associated," SO BETCOIN ANDREW - WHAT WERE THE OTHER ACCOUNTS ? DRAJL AND DA_KILLA WERE NOT THE ONLY ONES AS U SAID.
    i want to know who else cheated me. ill wait one more week for you to at least give us a friggin update here, then ill make this public in other forums. this is simply not acceptable how you treat your customers here. this thread is goin for almost 5 (!!!) weeks now and u silently UNBANNED the cheaters after 1 week BEFORE refunding the cheated. and now simply try to ignore this thread, not having sent refuds after 5 weeks. did you by chance operate one or two of those accounts yourself ? this is ridiculous. why u wont ban them all, name ALL the names u banned , refund the players and move on ??
    wtf betcoin. seriously. at least give us fucking update instead of ignoring this thread!
    and not responding to my ticket from almost 3 weeks ago wont make me stop bumpin this ridic thread a well. what an amazingly bad customer service u display here, mindblowing....
    bumpppppp. thank you for the great customer service betcoin, much appreciated !
    (The user who posted most of those left the site 7 months ago and hasn't been back)







    Betcoin allows cheaters to continue playing until they request a withdraw.

    I wasn't supposed to see this, but when a staff member likes a comment of another staff member, it makes the beginning of the comment public.

    I think its self explanatory (not sure if this is proof of pws not being encrypted or not)

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    Betcoin staff claims to conduct a thorough investigation but clearly doesn't

    https://www.betcoin.ag/urgent-player...ealing-chips-0

    Some players suspected a new player of some sort of strategic attack to disconnect oppopnents in middle of hand. Personally I think its entirely possible there was no cheating, but that doesn't matter now.

    Betcoin Andrews response:

    Everyone directly effected by this, please provide feedback if you shared your skype information with anyone. We are still researching this issue in detail and have consulted other websites as well who have
    shared they have experienced this problem.

    The common response has been to advise.

    NEVER accept unknown contacts on Skype. If someone has you on Skype they can get your IP address, and with your IP they can DDOS you and cause a disconnect.

    Starting to become a common poker con it seems.

    This is not the end of our review and we will keep you posted.
    Nearly a week goes by and I notice someone makes a post asking for an update get deleted quickly. (players do not have the ability to delete their own posts - i think )

    I wait a day, and then also making a post - asking if the guy was cheating or not. (I had been involved in a very large pot with player, and got disconnected costing me a lot but honestly was not convinced either way if it was )

    The other player responded that support had:

    threw me 10 extra chips and a status upgrade and told him politely to stfu
    When asked for a time frame on when they would make a decision on the cheating:


    oh well, gonna be a while and we'll let you know
    I have a screen shot of these posts, they were deleted very quickly but if you go through the thread I posted originally you'll see they are gone

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    The next day support made its final statement on the matter:

    Our research has indicated that this was an issue that many poker rooms have faced in the past. We have integrated some defense mechanisms and are continuing to add more to this. We are happy to report to date it has not occurred again. Please correct us if we are wrong and keep the constructive posts coming on this matter. Individuals effected please submit or bump your original tickets for review.

    We all want instant gratification, but things take time, research, preparation programming and hard work. There often isn't an update everyday but overtime there is progress and we will always get things right. We thank you for your support.
    They ended up refunding me for the 1 hand I had a screen shot of and refused to answer any further questions ( like how much did you confiscate? Are you refunding players who may not of seen thread? )




    Betcoins reaction to player DoS attack/Extortion Attempt
    (I am victim in this example and I am NOT claiming it's anyones responsibility but my own to secure my IP. The reason I'm including this is because I think Betcoins response was irresponsible and likely encouraged him to do it again to someone else)

    On Sunday July 22 I was playing was several tournaments on Betcoin when another Betcoin user (worldpeace) took out my internet for nearly an hour by having a friend dos my ip through the skype exploit. I was able to reconnect briefly a few times, during which he tried to extort $20 from me (i ignored or refused each time)

    I opened a ticket and provided screen shots of the extortion attempts and also started a thread to warn other players and secure their skype connection.

    I made it clear I wasn't looking for compensation from Betcoin as it wasn't their job to make sure my IP was secure. But I did expect the user to be banned.

    I also checked his Sharkscope and noticed he had won a ridiculously high number of HUSNGs recently, including 8 or 9 in a row that day. (HUSNG would be easiest way to exploit another player by taking out their internet during match)


    Betcoins Response:

    WorldPeace was never banned. He actually won the Betcoin Daily Coin tournament that night as well as the lastlonger and was congratulated by Staff member/"Mod" plo8monster.



    I can't copy the entire ticket since I'm currently banned, but I do have a screen shot of the only response I received from Betcoin which asked me if he apologized. You can read my response, I think I bumped the ticket a couple more times and eventually gave up.

    https://i.gyazo.com/d8bbc629835a8fb4...682d8be5a4.png

    He did apologize in the thread I made:

    worldpeace: oh yeah i want to apologise3 months 4 weeks ago
    oh yeah i want to apologise for my actions and im sorry


    If interested you can find more specific details of the actual attack here: https://www.betcoin.ag/worldpeace-sc...-extort-me-dos

    In case it ends up being deleted, screenshots of extortion attempts and copy of skype logs:

    Quote
    This message has been removed.
    [7/16/2015 7:06:13 PM] *** leon would like to add you on Skype

    Hi twitchyseal, I'd like to add you as a contact. ***
    [7/16/2015 7:09:21 PM] *** twitchyseal has shared contact details with leon. ***
    [7/16/2015 7:09:23 PM] twitchyseal: hi
    [7/16/2015 7:09:35 PM] leon: I was ddosing u for 5mins
    [7/16/2015 7:09:37 PM] twitchyseal: what was that
    [7/16/2015 7:09:37 PM] leon: i can ddose u
    [7/16/2015 7:09:48 PM] twitchyseal: why
    [7/16/2015 7:09:57 PM] twitchyseal: so I lose satty
    [7/16/2015 7:10:04 PM] leon: earlier i sent u 5mins dc
    [7/16/2015 7:10:11 PM] leon: booting ur router
    [7/16/2015 7:10:16 PM] leon: next time will be longer
    [7/16/2015 7:10:25 PM] twitchyseal: why
    [7/16/2015 7:10:30 PM] leon: cause im mad
    [7/16/2015 7:10:33 PM] leon: u knock me out
    [7/16/2015 7:10:38 PM] leon: of tourney yesterday
    [7/16/2015 7:10:42 PM] leon: i demand a fucking refund
    [7/16/2015 7:10:44 PM] leon: and i will stop
    [7/16/2015 7:11:34 PM] *** twitchyseal blocked leon ***

    http://snag.gy/mxnzp.jpg
    http://snag.gy/mxnzp.jpg
    http://snag.gy/9448g.jpg


    Ok going to get a bit lazy now and just link some post I've already made.

    Betcoin Trolling Me:
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...74#msg12968074

    Betcoin Underpaying VIP Status Points/Rakeback - pretends to care for a bit then ignores me
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...39#msg13053839

    Even after Betcoin has disabled my account and Banned my IP - I can still log into poker client and register for tournaments
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...58#msg13041658

    Betcoin collects over 14 BTC from a BBJP that doesn't exist, denys collecting them, claims to use them for another freeroll then claims they weren't used for the freeroll and pretends BBJP existed all along and refuses to discuss further:
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...00#msg13028300

    Betcoin Rep on BitcoinTalk blatantly lies (and I call them out) about Previous Freeroll issues:
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...61#msg13028361
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...78#msg13028378


    Last night Betcoin contacted me for the first time on BitcoinTalk.org I'm not sure why exactly, interested in what others think.

    They told me the following:

    - Betcoin would much rather have me back in the community.
    - The community is a lot smoother now that I am gone which is allowing them to fix things.
    - I am always welcome back (im still banned)
    - Because of me, Bitcoin Talk referalls have never been higher, I should be paid for helping them grow!
    - They encourage me to ask more questions, because my questions are important. (they haven't answered any)
    - I’m definitely bringing in new players, they appreciate it.
    - This has been a very good experience for the forum rep.

    (Normally I would never share a pm without permission - I think this is an acceptable time to make an exception)
    Betcoin.ag
    We would actually much rather have you back in the community. Our staff is working on much of the great feedback you and all of our players have provided. I am the forum rep and as advised by owners, staff etc. going back and forth in a forum is never productive, but staying on the first page in the thread is very beneficial for Betcoin as the referrals from BitcoinTalk have never been higher. We will continue to work hard to make everything as perfect as possible at Betcoin and you will always be welcome back.
    My Response
    "We would actually much rather have you back in the community"

    Much rather than what?
    You disable my account ban my ip without explanation then tell me you'd rather I wasn't banned?
    Why did you ban me in the first place? If you'd rather I wasn't banned why not simply un ban me?
    I think it's because you know I won't stop asking questions that you don't want to answer.
    Why did Betcoin ignore me for the weeks leading up to my first post about this issue here?
    Betcoin.ag
    Much rather than ban you. We don't want to ban anybody.
    Even you stated in an earlier message you can see why you have been banned.
    You can ask as many questions as you want and we encourage it. Notice we have never asked you once to stop posting. As the forum rep, I have never been busier!
    Betcoin is working on many things brought up from all of our great players and will get to everything in time.
    Again, we appreciate your vigor and posts. You should be earning from the traffic you are sending over.


    My Response
    You've already banned me.

    If you would rather I weren't banned, you would unban me. Please stop saying things that conflict with the actions of Betcoin.

    I can ask as many questions as I want only because you can't stop stop me.

    If you could, you would.

    You've proven that by deleting the same questions when I asked them on your forum and eventually banning me so I couldn't ask them in chat.

    I still have not received answers to many questions even months after asking them.

    Acting as if I am helping you by exposing your lies and unethical practices is just childish and I can't see how anyone would believe you would ban me from your site for doing something that you were glad I was doing.


    Betcoin.ag
    Yes, you have been banned.

    Yes, the community is a lot smoother and we can focus on fixing remaining issues and adding future additions.

    We would not stop you, because this is the proper forum for it. We would encourage you as you ask important questions. We are working on a wide variety of things right now from all of our members including you but asking multiple times a day just is not necessary.

    You are definitely helping bring in new users and we appreciate it.

    Again, I am just the forum rep and this has also been a good experience for me as well.


    I've got plenty more to share like privately paying players to defend them, paying players to make posts about how much they love them etc. kind of sick of typing and thinking about this at the moment though, will add more later. Any feedback welcome, just please read what I said before making opinion.
    Last edited by TwitchySeal; 11-28-2015 at 11:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Not that this will necessarily help you but even though Betcoin has it's own cash game pool it is still connected to WPN for a majority of the tournaments.

    Since Betcoin is connected if they are pulling a lot of shady activities you would think the rest of the network wouldn't want to associate themselves with this skin so have you tried contacting them such as the CEO who posts up on 2+2 reguarly?

    He comes across being arrogant at times but when it comes to something this like this maybe he would take these accusations seriously where if anything they can put pressure on Betcoin to do right or rid themselves from this skin which is probably the source of a lot of these DDOS attackers since the hardcore bitcoin geeks flock to that site the most and some are big into doing that type of activity.
    BeerAndPoker Blog: Click HERE
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Not that this will necessarily help you but even though Betcoin has it's own cash game pool it is still connected to WPN for a majority of the tournaments.

    Since Betcoin is connected if they are pulling a lot of shady activities you would think the rest of the network wouldn't want to associate themselves with this skin so have you tried contacting them such as the CEO who posts up on 2+2 reguarly?

    He comes across being arrogant at times but when it comes to something this like this maybe he would take these accusations seriously where if anything they can put pressure on Betcoin to do right or rid themselves from this skin which is probably the source of a lot of these DDOS attackers since the hardcore bitcoin geeks flock to that site the most and some are big into doing that type of activity.

    Yes I am in contact with him and we've discussed the situation. Nothing groundbreaking, but I'm waiting for his permission before I share anything about it.

    Betcoin has claimed many times that they are owned by the same people and WPN supports what they do 100%. I do not think this is all true.

    Also, Betcoin recently was disconnected from WPN for a few weeks to fix some stuff, they accidentally stated that their upgrade would stop all WPN DDOS attacks. Most likely it was them spewing lies and not thinking about what they were saying, but there may be some truth there.

    https://www.betcoin.ag/wpn-tournamen...xpected-9-days

    Note the last sentence of OP:

    This update should solve all DDoS and connectivity problems experienced by the WPN as well as enable Betcoin to accept the new features of the WPN.

  4. #4
    You have proven what scumbags they are, why would you want them to unban your isp for fucks sakes? Never had any traffic in ring games and canceled a bunch of their own tournaments not associated with wpn. Their support is pompous , rude and arrogant. Play somewhere else dude. Why would u play somewhere you obviously aren't wanted.

    Is that true about them being able to dos you if you add them on skype that they get your ip? Can't people get your ip thru other means other then adding you on skype unless your are encrypted ?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    You have proven what scumbags they are, why would you want them to unban your isp for fucks sakes? Never had any traffic in ring games and canceled a bunch of their own tournaments not associated with wpn. Their support is pompous , rude and arrogant. Play somewhere else dude. Why would u play somewhere you obviously aren't wanted.
    He stopped playing there before they banned him. He's more interested in getting the word out and/or having the site fix its broken support practices at this point I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    Is that true about them being able to dos you if you add them on skype that they get your ip? Can't people get your ip thru other means other then adding you on skype unless your are encrypted ?
    It's true that people on your Skype contact list can get your IP address. Skype is a peer to peer service, and so your client needs to be able to directly connect to your contacts in order to talk to them. People can get your IP address in various other ways, such as asking you to visit a website they control. There's no easy way to find someone's IP address if all they do is play poker against you (on a trustworthy site), however.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dooglus View Post
    He stopped playing there before they banned him. He's more interested in getting the word out and/or having the site fix its broken support practices at this point I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    Is that true about them being able to dos you if you add them on skype that they get your ip? Can't people get your ip thru other means other then adding you on skype unless your are encrypted ?
    It's true that people on your Skype contact list can get your IP address. Skype is a peer to peer service, and so your client needs to be able to directly connect to your contacts in order to talk to them. People can get your IP address in various other ways, such as asking you to visit a website they control. There's no easy way to find someone's IP address if all they do is play poker against you (on a trustworthy site), however.
    The one and only dooglus!

    I assume you've been waiting for the past 3 years for an opportunity like this to make your first post. I'm honored.

    I agree with what he said.

    It's pretty easy to secure your ip from being exploited via skype, you just have to configure the built in proxy setting.

    Before even worrying about the proxy settings though, go to settings > connections and be sure that "Allow direct connections to your contacts only" is checked.

    For details on other settings -

    I hear this is a good guide to follow:

    http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4601733

    Or just google "skype dos prevention"

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TwitchySeal View Post
    The one and only dooglus!

    I assume you've been waiting for the past 3 years for an opportunity like this to make your first post. I'm honored.
    I have no idea why I would have signed up and not posted.

    I guess it is possible that I posted in a thread that has since been deleted.

  8. #8
    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dooglus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TwitchySeal View Post
    The one and only dooglus!

    I assume you've been waiting for the past 3 years for an opportunity like this to make your first post. I'm honored.
    I have no idea why I would have signed up and not posted.

    I guess it is possible that I posted in a thread that has since been deleted.
    Nothing gets "deleted" here so I would guess that was your first post ever.
    (_) ..
    ∫\ \___( _)
    _∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  9. #9
    Anyone know what can be concluded this as far as password security?

    (it's a screenshot of something I assume wasn't supposed to be made public)

    They can obviously check and see if more than one account uses the same password - is that normal?

    Last edited by TwitchySeal; 11-29-2015 at 01:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwitchySeal View Post
    Anyone know what can be concluded this as far as password security?

    (it's a screenshot of something I assume wasn't supposed to be made public)

    They can obviously check and see if more than one account uses the same password - is that normal?

    Not conclusive.

    For all we know, the system could have a security check that it automatically runs when people sign up for a new account, and flags all accounts with identical passwords. Actually a good idea.

  11. #11
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    But with that said, this site sounds shady as hell, and you should stay far, far away.

    I will admit that I didn't understand everything you posted (I think it made sense to you but not to outsiders like me), but the "No Collusion Freeroll" -- where they held a freeroll supposedly with funds confiscated due to collusion, yet allowed the colluders to still play on the site, should be all you need to know about betcoin's integrity.

    It also appears that they engage in an evasive and passive-aggressive customer service model, where they first ignore problems, then attempt to cover them up as much as they can behind the scenes, and then ban anyone who continues to question them.

    I suggest everyone stay away from Betcoin.

    And yes, if you play online poker, you should definitely disallow direct Skype connections from non-contacts.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I will admit that I didn't understand everything you posted (I think it made sense to you but not to outsiders like me)
    The examples are complicated and writing has never been a strength of mine, but this is eye opening.

    If Druff doesn't understand everything I'm saying thats obviously a big problem. I included so many different issues in an attempt to paint a big picture of a problem that is bigger than all the individual problems combined. Perhaps I should edit down the OP big time and spend more time simplifying a few examples.

    I guess having one easy to read post that proves my point in 5-600 words seems like it might help a lot. Or should I just make what you didn't understand more clear?

    Any advice or help is very appreciated.

    If you think I'm wasting my time, I'd like to hear that also. But consider this - the guys running the site are establishing themselves in different online communities and doing a very good job at convincing anyone that they are the most honest site around. They have low rake and fast cashouts and use that as an excuse to throw ethics out the window. The regular interaction with players and the community is what has allowed them to gain so much blind loyalty, but it also makes them vulnerable to those who are able to see through all the BS.

    They do owe me a few Bitcoin in unpaid rakeback, but that is honestly not what is motivating me to do this. (If I kept the rakeback issue to myself they would of just paid me whatever I said I was owed, I am positive) I think they are a using an especially scummy strategy which is working remarkably well. Am I being over dramatic when I think that If they continue to get away with this, it will have a negative impact for players at future non regulated sites when they ask themselves "Why be honest when you can just tell everyone you're honest instead" "Why pay back everyone when we can just pay back the ones who complained?"


    Also, last night I spoke on the phone with one of their chat mods. (if anyone knows who plo8monster is, it was his son)

    It didn't accomplish much as he was more focused on insulting me and convincing me I knew nothing about how an online poker site works. But he does seem to have a side that wants to be rational and seems like the only thing he might be guilty of is allowing Betcoin to fool him. He sent a text back saying we should continue this and record the conversation. I thought the PFA podcast might work well for this if he was willing and druff was willing to host it. I suggested it to him and haven't heard back but thought I'd throw the idea out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not conclusive.

    For all we know, the system could have a security check that it automatically runs when people sign up for a new account, and flags all accounts with identical passwords. Actually a good idea.
    Thanks, I thought that might be the case but couldn't confirm either way.

  13. #13
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    If half of what you wrote is true, you are definitely in the right here.

    The "we're giving the colluder a second chance and just watching him closely" line was unbelievable.

    Sounds like this place absolutely cannot be trusted.

  14. #14
    After dooglus told Betcoin:

    dooglus
    I enjoyed most of my time at betcoin, but this attitude from the support staff is intolerable. I'm out.
    It seems that Betcoin found out who Dooglus was and what kind of reputation he had since they decided to fire "Jessica" (as likely to turn scammer as DanDruff)

    Betcoin.ag
    Jessica is a very passionate individual who takes things very personally and we have had to work with her on this. When Betcoin is attacked she feels attacked and she responded inappropriately in this situation. We have stated many times that we value Dooglus' feedback tremendously and are using it to make some good improvements. Jessica has been reassigned for the time being and she was not aware of the reasoning behind Dooglus' negative trust rating when that message was written. We apologize for that comment in full and appreciate you providing your humble opinion.

    Thank you for playing with us. Everything continues to get better at Betcoin Casino and the entire network and we will continue to improve it.

    Shortly after, I received a pm from "Jessica"

    Betcoin.ag
    We would like to bring you back into the community.

    What questions?

    You are helping as we can track the clickthroughs coming from bitcointalk and the specific threads they come from.

    What specific issues.

    We would like to provide a bonus for you to come back in and enjoy the great community, but I guess we need to answer some questions you have?

    I am reassigned but not far! I do take this too personal because I see how hard this team works and what we are trying to deliver to everyone. It's a special group that continues to just give and give more to the great players we have and continue to get everyday.

    Sincerely,

    Jessica


    Impressive level of bullshit imo

    (They've been telling me and anyone who asks that I'm welcome back on their site for over a week now, guess they just keep forgetting to unban my account/ip oops)

  15. #15
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwitchySeal View Post
    After dooglus told Betcoin:

    dooglus


    It seems that Betcoin found out who Dooglus was and what kind of reputation he had since they decided to fire "Jessica" (as likely to turn scammer as DanDruff)

    Betcoin.ag
    Jessica is a very passionate individual who takes things very personally and we have had to work with her on this. When Betcoin is attacked she feels attacked and she responded inappropriately in this situation. We have stated many times that we value Dooglus' feedback tremendously and are using it to make some good improvements. Jessica has been reassigned for the time being and she was not aware of the reasoning behind Dooglus' negative trust rating when that message was written. We apologize for that comment in full and appreciate you providing your humble opinion.

    Thank you for playing with us. Everything continues to get better at Betcoin Casino and the entire network and we will continue to improve it.

    Shortly after, I received a pm from "Jessica"

    Betcoin.ag
    We would like to bring you back into the community.

    What questions?

    You are helping as we can track the clickthroughs coming from bitcointalk and the specific threads they come from.

    What specific issues.

    We would like to provide a bonus for you to come back in and enjoy the great community, but I guess we need to answer some questions you have?

    I am reassigned but not far! I do take this too personal because I see how hard this team works and what we are trying to deliver to everyone. It's a special group that continues to just give and give more to the great players we have and continue to get everyday.

    Sincerely,

    Jessica


    Impressive level of bullshit imo

    (They've been telling me and anyone who asks that I'm welcome back on their site for over a week now, guess they just keep forgetting to unban my account/ip oops)
    Before I read the rest of your post, I was predicting that Jessica wouldn't actually be fired, but would just be assigned another name to use for Betcoin support.

    Looks like they didn't even do that, and she's simply still working there under Jessica.

    Pretty awful.

    Anyone who continues to patronize these scumbags is a fool.

  16. #16
    pokerscout says this site has a 7 day average of 28 players, with a 24hr peak of 50.

    how are they making enough money to stay open? The casino/sports book must be making a profit.

    From in the enter departmental text you posted that you weren't supposed to see, it named two players who's WD was canceled due to being part of an 81 player collusion pool. 81 cheaters is a lot given that they only average 28 players logged in. I wonder how many of those were banned, seeing that you know one of the colluders or more are playing on site.

    How much money do you have on this site, and are you allowed to cash out?

    So they didn't ban the colluders, but did ban you for complaining too much. But now they are complementing you because your complaints in a forum led to a few new players..I wonder if this thread will get them a few new players.

    I never considered this site, although I have account on ACR so maybe I've played against Betcoin players before. Not likely I was cheated, since I just played tourneys.

    Little confused, as it sounds like a player was able to enter a heads up sitngo, then somehow determine your IP address, and get you knocked off the network?

    Is this a flaw in WPN, or Betcoin internal network that is not part of WPN?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by anchordraw View Post
    81 cheaters is a lot given that they only average 28 players logged in.
    Betcoin players can play Betcoin only tournaments as well as tournaments on WPN (Winning Poker Network). On average Betcoin players make up around 0.5 - 0.75% of WPN.

    I believe these colluding accounts were mostly playing the freerolls, which is no excuse.





    Quote Originally Posted by anchordraw View Post
    How much money do you have on this site, and are you allowed to cash out?

    I stopped playing there several weeks before they banned me, so none.






    Quote Originally Posted by anchordraw View Post
    Little confused, as it sounds like a player was able to enter a heads up sitngo, then somehow determine your IP address, and get you knocked off the network?
    Hacker could of easily gotten my skype name by guessing it or simply asking someone. He had been around Betcoin for months at the time (and continues to play there afaik)

    I believe he got my ip address through skype.

    He attacked me mid session while multitabling. He did it while I was on the bubble or close in a couple $30-$100 buyin mtts thinking Id be more likely to pay I guess.

    My internet went out, I restarted router and it came back.

    Attacker came to my table, told me he just dos me for 5 min.

    I told him to ead I think.

    He dos me a couple more times and I kept having to resart router, eventually got hold of verizon and got them to release my ip. I kept skype off and all was fine. In the end it cost me a few hyper turbos I blinded out of and about 45 min of missed hands in the others.

    The only reason I mentioned the HUSNGs, is because I looked up attacker and he had played a bunch of HUSNGs around the same time he attacked me. If he had the skype name of someone who played HUSNGs, it would be the easiest way to make some quick cash. He won 8 or 9 in a row within a day or so of attacking me.

  18. #18
    Back when the site was new, I was conversing with the affiliate manager. I was explaining to him that I was interested in their site since it was the only option for bitcoin users to access WPN. However, their cash game rake was atrocious. It wasn't pegged to anything and was static and at the time, with bitcoin prices > $600, the rake cap was over $6 per hand USD rake equivalent!

    The affiliate manager had a very difficult time comprehending this and invited the general manager into our chat. I then did the math for them, showed them how Seals really worked, etc and they were quite enlightened and happy telling me what a wonderful partnership we were entering into. They blew enough smoke up my ass that I gave them my top 10 list of things they needed to fix on their site (rake being the foremost). We then began negotiating an affiliate deal. However, they simply stopped responding. It was all smiles and friendship and "we'll fix this and that" and "thank you for your help!" and then silence. I sent multiple messages to the AM, the GM, and the group chat with zero response.

    I came to the conclusion that not only were these guys clueless about poker, that they were also liars. They run a shitty business and use shady tactics. Furthermore, they don't even understand the business they are in, so I can't support them then, nor at this time. Maybe if they fire those 2 assholes and start fresh...
    .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HowQuaint View Post
    Back when the site was new, I was conversing with the affiliate manager. I was explaining to him that I was interested in their site since it was the only option for bitcoin users to access WPN. However, their cash game rake was atrocious. It wasn't pegged to anything and was static and at the time, with bitcoin prices > $600, the rake cap was over $6 per hand USD rake equivalent!

    The affiliate manager had a very difficult time comprehending this and invited the general manager into our chat. I then did the math for them, showed them how Seals really worked, etc and they were quite enlightened and happy telling me what a wonderful partnership we were entering into. They blew enough smoke up my ass that I gave them my top 10 list of things they needed to fix on their site (rake being the foremost). We then began negotiating an affiliate deal. However, they simply stopped responding. It was all smiles and friendship and "we'll fix this and that" and "thank you for your help!" and then silence. I sent multiple messages to the AM, the GM, and the group chat with zero response.

    I came to the conclusion that not only were these guys clueless about poker, that they were also liars. They run a shitty business and use shady tactics. Furthermore, they don't even understand the business they are in, so I can't support them then, nor at this time. Maybe if they fire those 2 assholes and start fresh...

    I'm guessing their names were Paul, George and/or Andrew.

    I plan on updating soon with their most recent ridiculous behavior.

    Cliffs:

    "Accidentally" raised rake cap, players complained - they did nothing for 4 weeks, then they announced rake increase and refuse to refund players.

    Increase included removing cap completely from HU Cash tables with 0 warning before hand, and no attempt to inform players other than changing the terms on their site.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TwitchySeal View Post
    I'm guessing their names were Paul, George and/or Andrew.
    Actually, none of those were the names used. I presume of course that they just make up whatever names they want, it's not as if they are real people and truly accountable for their actions.

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