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Thread: If anyone was curious about why I've been saying 'dont trust tor' for years...

  1. #1
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    If anyone was curious about why I've been saying 'dont trust tor' for years...

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9...gie-mellon-tor

    Encryption service Tor was designed to keep its users anonymous, but early last year, it was compromised, handing reams of information about people who used the software to view the "dark web" to an unknown party. Now the non-profit Tor Project that develops and maintains the anonymity software thinks it has its culprit. The group says that Tor was cracked by the FBI, with the help of researchers from Carnegie Mellon University, who were allegedly paid $1 million for their work.

    THE TOR PROJECT SUSPECTED CARNEGIE MELLON LAST YEAR

    In evidence, the Tor Project points to the attack that it uncovered last year. The attack reportedly began in February, after its instigators created more than a hundred new relays on the Tor network in late January, and ran until July 4th, when the team discovered the vulnerability. The attackers were able to use a combination of two methods to gather information on Tor's users, but at the time, the Tor Project wasn't sure exactly how detailed that information was. It was more convinced of who was behind the attack — it suspected Carnegie Mellon's Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT).

    Carnegie Mellon researchers were due to give at last year's Black Hat hacking conference that detailed a new way of breaking in to Tor using just $3,000 of hardware. As tracked by security researcher Ed Felton last year, proposals for the presentation were collated and submitted between February and April, with researchers presenting some of the research in June, pinpointing the vulnerability and indicating that the attack had been carried out in real life. But after the ongoing attack was discovered in early July, the talk was abruptly canceled, and the Tor Project says the researchers stopped answering their emails.

    COURT DOCUMENTS USED BY THE GOVERNMENT REFERENCE A UNIVERSITY-BASED RESEARCH GROUP

    The Tor Project's accusations were spurred by documents used the government's case against Silk Road 2.0 staff member Brian Richard "DoctorClu" Farrell, reviewed yesterday by Motherboard. The documents directly state that Farrell's involvement with the second iteration of the infamous drug marketplace was identified thanks to information obtained by "a university-based research institute." In the search warrant used to search Farrell's home in January 2015, Special Agent Michael Larson pointed to an FBI source of information that gave "reliable IP addresses for TOR and hidden services such as [Silk Road 2.0]" between January 2014 and July 2014 — lining up with the dates of the suspected CERT attack.

    It's believed that the information pulled during the five months the attack was running was used in Operation Onymous, a joint mission against dark web marketplaces and sellers, carried out by Europol, Eurojust, the FBI, the US Department of Homeland Security, and other governmental agencies. The operation was responsible for the arrest of 17 sellers and site administrators, the shuttering of around 410 hidden services only accessible through Tor, and the seizure of $1 million in Bitcoin.

    THE TOR PROJECT SAYS THE ACTION WAS A "VIOLATION OF TRUST"

    The Tor Project questioned the legality and ethical basis for the attack, and the collusion between a research institute and the FBI. "There is no indication yet that they had a warrant or any institutional oversight by Carnegie Mellon's Institutional Review Board," the group wrote in a statement. "We think it's unlikely they could have gotten a valid warrant for CMU's attack as conducted, since it was not narrowly tailored to target criminals or criminal activity, but instead appears to have indiscriminately targeted many users at once."

    The NSA has tried to crack Tor before, but the software's creators say that academic research agencies should not exist to help law enforcement agencies invade technically legal networks. "Such action is a violation of our trust and basic guidelines for ethical research. We strongly support independent research on our software and network, but this attack crosses the crucial line between research and endangering innocent users," the Tor Project wrote. "If this kind of FBI attack by university proxy is accepted, no one will have meaningful 4th Amendment protections online and everyone is at risk."

    Speaking to Wired, Carnegie Mellon said the Tor Project had no evidence for its claims. "I'd like to see the substantiation for their claim," a PR representative for the University's Software Engineering Institute said. "I'm not aware of any payment." Roger Dingledine, director of the Tor Project, said the $1 million figure was quoted by "friends in the security community."

     
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      Sanlmar: damn good find
      
      thesparten: Dam good find +2
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #2
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    The government should have access to ALL our conversations and transactions.

    I am pretty sure this is how Druff would feel, anyway.

    It's 6am, now I can finally sleep with both eyes closed.

     
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      varys: Lowkey shots fired at druff rep

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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9...gie-mellon-tor

    Encryption service Tor was designed to keep its users anonymous, but early last year, it was compromised, handing reams of information about people who used the software to view the "dark web" to an unknown party. Now the non-profit Tor Project that develops and maintains the anonymity software thinks it has its culprit. The group says that Tor was cracked by the FBI, with the help of researchers from Carnegie Mellon University, who were allegedly paid $1 million for their work.

    THE TOR PROJECT SUSPECTED CARNEGIE MELLON LAST YEAR

    In evidence, the Tor Project points to the attack that it uncovered last year. The attack reportedly began in February, after its instigators created more than a hundred new relays on the Tor network in late January, and ran until July 4th, when the team discovered the vulnerability. The attackers were able to use a combination of two methods to gather information on Tor's users, but at the time, the Tor Project wasn't sure exactly how detailed that information was. It was more convinced of who was behind the attack — it suspected Carnegie Mellon's Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT).

    Carnegie Mellon researchers were due to give at last year's Black Hat hacking conference that detailed a new way of breaking in to Tor using just $3,000 of hardware. As tracked by security researcher Ed Felton last year, proposals for the presentation were collated and submitted between February and April, with researchers presenting some of the research in June, pinpointing the vulnerability and indicating that the attack had been carried out in real life. But after the ongoing attack was discovered in early July, the talk was abruptly canceled, and the Tor Project says the researchers stopped answering their emails.

    COURT DOCUMENTS USED BY THE GOVERNMENT REFERENCE A UNIVERSITY-BASED RESEARCH GROUP

    The Tor Project's accusations were spurred by documents used the government's case against Silk Road 2.0 staff member Brian Richard "DoctorClu" Farrell, reviewed yesterday by Motherboard. The documents directly state that Farrell's involvement with the second iteration of the infamous drug marketplace was identified thanks to information obtained by "a university-based research institute." In the search warrant used to search Farrell's home in January 2015, Special Agent Michael Larson pointed to an FBI source of information that gave "reliable IP addresses for TOR and hidden services such as [Silk Road 2.0]" between January 2014 and July 2014 — lining up with the dates of the suspected CERT attack.

    It's believed that the information pulled during the five months the attack was running was used in Operation Onymous, a joint mission against dark web marketplaces and sellers, carried out by Europol, Eurojust, the FBI, the US Department of Homeland Security, and other governmental agencies. The operation was responsible for the arrest of 17 sellers and site administrators, the shuttering of around 410 hidden services only accessible through Tor, and the seizure of $1 million in Bitcoin.

    THE TOR PROJECT SAYS THE ACTION WAS A "VIOLATION OF TRUST"

    The Tor Project questioned the legality and ethical basis for the attack, and the collusion between a research institute and the FBI. "There is no indication yet that they had a warrant or any institutional oversight by Carnegie Mellon's Institutional Review Board," the group wrote in a statement. "We think it's unlikely they could have gotten a valid warrant for CMU's attack as conducted, since it was not narrowly tailored to target criminals or criminal activity, but instead appears to have indiscriminately targeted many users at once."

    The NSA has tried to crack Tor before, but the software's creators say that academic research agencies should not exist to help law enforcement agencies invade technically legal networks. "Such action is a violation of our trust and basic guidelines for ethical research. We strongly support independent research on our software and network, but this attack crosses the crucial line between research and endangering innocent users," the Tor Project wrote. "If this kind of FBI attack by university proxy is accepted, no one will have meaningful 4th Amendment protections online and everyone is at risk."

    Speaking to Wired, Carnegie Mellon said the Tor Project had no evidence for its claims. "I'd like to see the substantiation for their claim," a PR representative for the University's Software Engineering Institute said. "I'm not aware of any payment." Roger Dingledine, director of the Tor Project, said the $1 million figure was quoted by "friends in the security community."
    Dam good post..

    I'm all tingly Inside..

    am I gay now?

  4. #4
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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      lewfather: TPTK
      
      Corrigan: top top
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Should we be concerned that everything is emanating from Germany?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Dragons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Should we be concerned that everything is emanating from Germany?
    I'm not sure but I see that the sizzler and lannister are doing work.

  7. #7
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Im far more intrigued by the 16 nodes running hundreds of miles south of the Nigerian coast in the Gulf of Guinea.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Im far more intrigued by the 16 nodes running hundreds of miles south of the Nigerian coast in the Gulf of Guinea.
    I spent 5 minutes zooming in on this.

    There is a good story offshore.

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    Bronze blubbernuffle's Avatar
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    This is exactly why everyone should be running a tor node. Make the tor network stronger. You don't have to be doing something private on the internet to appreciate tor. It's like not voting and saying your one vote doesn't matter.

    edit: i think tor (or tech like it) should be a backbone/mesh network of the internet

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blubbernuffle View Post
    This is exactly why everyone should be running a tor node. Make the tor network stronger. You don't have to be doing something private on the internet to appreciate tor. It's like not voting and saying your one vote doesn't matter.

    edit: i think tor (or tech like it) should be a backbone/mesh network of the internet

    so just for starters, having seen some of the traffic that passes through a tor node, i wish you and your lawyer nothing but the best in your adventures.

    im not going to tuck into your backbone/mesh idea but anyone using words like 'backbone' and 'mesh' should, by rights, understand the vast number of protocols that wouldnt run under it, the horrific latency issues, and oh god i just cant.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
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    Gotta admit, I wasn't curious at all.

    To be fair, you didn't state your other threads denouncing tor to be ***Official***. Nor did you claim them to be "Locks" or continually bombard us with your record & claim to be "world class" in these so-called "Locks" so it was really hard to take them seriously.

     
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      sonatine: for my own good reps
    (•_•) ..
    ∫\ \___( •_•)
    _∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  12. #12
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Independent security auditors just spot checked TOR nodes and discovered over 100 nodes that appear to have been modified to expose source IPs / decrypt traffic in transit:


    http://www.slideshare.net/evilhackerz/tor-honions
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  13. #13
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blubbernuffle View Post
    This is exactly why everyone should be running a tor node. Make the tor network stronger. You don't have to be doing something private on the internet to appreciate tor. It's like not voting and saying your one vote doesn't matter.

    edit: i think tor (or tech like it) should be a backbone/mesh network of the internet

    so just for starters, having seen some of the traffic that passes through a tor node, i wish you and your lawyer nothing but the best in your adventures.

    im not going to tuck into your backbone/mesh idea but anyone using words like 'backbone' and 'mesh' should, by rights, understand the vast number of protocols that wouldnt run under it, the horrific latency issues, and oh god i just cant.
    He said "or tech like it", and I completely agree as the agencies designed to protect, are busy elsewhere. It's spy vs spy and the majority has the edge by numbers alone. Whatever the motivation, keeping big brother running in circles is possible and hugely important.

  14. #14
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    so just for starters, having seen some of the traffic that passes through a tor node, i wish you and your lawyer nothing but the best in your adventures.

    im not going to tuck into your backbone/mesh idea but anyone using words like 'backbone' and 'mesh' should, by rights, understand the vast number of protocols that wouldnt run under it, the horrific latency issues, and oh god i just cant.
    He said "or tech like it", and I completely agree as the agencies designed to protect, are busy elsewhere. It's spy vs spy and the majority has the edge by numbers alone(brilliant stuff). Whatever the motivation, keeping big brother running in circles is possible and hugely important.

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