You make the call: Loan sharking edition

[Dan Druff]

This story involves two guys, whom I will call "Jeff" and "Mark".

Before you start making assumptions, I want to state that I am neither Jeff nor Mark, and am not involved in this situation at all. I was just told about it and want to get the forum's opinion.

In January 2015, Jeff was really desperate for $100 (don't laugh) and started asking people around work for a loan. Everyone turned Jeff down, until he reached Mark. Mark said, "I will give you the $100, but I want $300 next week when you get paid. Deal?"

Feeling desperate, Jeff agreed. (Jeff is an idiot, as you will see from the rest of the story, but that's not the point here.)

Well, the next week came around, and Jeff had some other things come up and couldn't afford to give $300 to Mark, as that was nearly his entire paycheck. Mark was really pissed about this and got in Jeff's face.

Jeff then asked, "Okay, so how much extra do I have to give, so I can pay you next week instead?"

Mark demanded another $100, and Jeff agreed.

The next week arrived. Jeff could not pay $400. He again asked Mark for a deal.

At this point, Mark was furious and demanded that Jeff pay him all of the money immediately.

Jeff, always living in the moment, offered a compromise:

"I'll give you $200 today, then I'll increase the total I owe you by another $200, for a total of $600. I will pay the remaining $400 over the next two weeks," Jeff said.

Mark agreed, and took the $200.

The next week came, and Jeff again couldn't afford to pay the $200. So again he paid Mark what he could, and the total Jeff owed was raised as part of another "deal".

Fast forward to today -- 10 months later. The situation above repeated itself over and over, to where Jeff has already paid Mark thousands of dollars, owes many thousands more, and has agreed to pay him off with a portion of every paycheck for the next 5 years.

I heard about this yesterday and told Jeff that it was absolutely crazy, that this is illegal, and that he should stop paying Mark immediately. Keep in mind that Jeff already gave him thousands in exchange for a $100 loan.

Mark insists that he is still owed what was promised, because it was Jeff's idea in the first place to keep delaying payment in exchange for more money, and in fact Jeff made the repeated offers of, "Just accept this much right now and I will pay XXXX more if you give me another week". Mark says that since Jeff made these deals, he rightfully owes the money, no matter how bad of a deal this actually is for him.

Jeff is also afraid of Mark, as he has a criminal history and has made threats to beat him up if he backs out of this.

Opinions?

[SrslySirius]

Ethically speaking, Jeff should honor his agreements unless they were made under duress. Legally, I suspect that's probably the case as well.

Mark was really pissed about this and got in Jeff's face.

.....

Jeff is also afraid of Mark, as he has a criminal history

Sounds like Jeff could justifiably back out of this, but more details are needed.

[big dick]

Mark sounds like a sweetheart.

[IAmProfessionalTalk]

[YUUP]

Time to man up .Stop paying immediately.

Tell Mark you'll be involving the police if he lays a finger on you, hopefully he'll realize he's milked Jeff for all he can.

[big dick]

Or hit him in the head with a baseball bat

[Jayjami]

Legally, the debt may be unenforceable under state usury laws. Of course, if someone is going to threaten physical violence to collect it, that is a crime. No way this guy will take it to court. Whether he will break someone's leg is another matter, as is whether Jeff has a moral obligation honor a bad deal in which someone took advantage of him. If you have seen the interest rates on those payday advance loans, they are outrageous as well, but people still do them anyway.

The typical two-week payday loan has an annual interest rate ranging from 391 to 521 percent. The“churning” of existing borrowers’ loans every two weeks accounts for three-fourths of all payday loan volume.
http://www.responsiblelending.org/pa....sW4L4bct.dpuf

[jacosta24]

Micon should stop paying Druff immediately

[thesparten]

He should just throw the 100$ backnin his face and say that's all u get..

He couldn't do the guy a solid for a 100 bucks. The guy only makes like 300$ a week. He tried to take advantage and sucker him in a very bad and overly intrusive way.. The debt is not valid above 100$..

Fucken white trash hero trying to get over on some one over a desperate need of a 100 bucks.. I wanna kick that white trash ass..

P.s.
I don't give a fuck if he agreed to it. Then the guy had at least half the money and he wanted another 100$./.lol.. I wanna kick his ass

[big dick]

Rapist itt

[Dan Druff]

The problem is that this has morphed from a bad deal to a backbreaking, life-altering horrible deal.

Mark has already been paid THOUSANDS for a $100 loan 10 months ago -- and he wants MANY thousands more over the next 5 years!

This is definitely illegal for many reasons, but here are the more important questions:

1) Is it ethical? Does Mark morally have the right to the money if Jeff agreed to it, even if it's orders of magnitude above the principle of the loan?

2) What will Mark do if Jeff refuses? Is Mark simply taking the money because Jeff is a puss and it's easy money rolling into his pocket, or does he really believe Jeff owes him for the next 5 years, to the point where he will feel cheated if Jeff stops paying?

Regarding #1, I do not believe it is ethical. Mark is clearly taking huge advantage of Jeff here, and has already (illegally) profited huge off a tiny loan. Anyone trying to make a poor person give up most of his paycheck for 6 years in order to pay tens of thousands of dollars in return for a $100 loan is a complete asshole, pure and simple. This is far from ethical.

Keep in mind that I would be mostly on Mark's side if it were simply a bad loan where Jeff had to pay him back several times the principle, such as $500 for $100. In that case, Jeff needs to suck it up and just pay the terrible interest, because that's what he agreed to. But this has gotten beyond ridiculous.

Regarding #2, there is actually a huge difference between the way a person feels between someone actually owing them money versus being able to squeeze them for money due to opportunity. For example, if you made a bet with Mark and then welched on it, you should have a legitimate fear that Mark is going to beat you up, provided you believe he's capable of it. That's because Mark would feel that you cheated him.

However, in this case, Mark fully realizes he got thousands out of Jeff for a $100 loan. I think he's just demanding the extra money at this point because he can, but in reality won't do anything if Jeff stops paying him at this point, other than perhaps make a few threats as a final attempt to get more out of him.

Anyway, those are my opinions of the situation.

[Belly Buster]

Story doesn't check out. 0% Jeff has enough brains to have a job.

[thesparten]

He should just throw the 100$ backnin his face and say that's all u get..

He couldn't do the guy a solid for a 100 bucks. The guy only makes like 300$ a week. He tried to take advantage and sucker him in a very bad and overly intrusive way.. The debt is not valid above 100$..

Fucken white trash hero trying to get over on some one over a desperate need of a 100 bucks.. I wanna kick that white trash ass..

P.s.
I don't give a fuck if he agreed to it. Then the guy had at least half the money and he wanted another 100$./.lol.. I wanna kick his ass

If that guy needs help with that situation. I will kick his ass and take all that money back and the sneakers off his feet and his watch and kick his teeth in.

What an idiot for paying him anything above 100$

[BCR]

You really need to step in and get power of attorney over Ken. No one of sound mind would ever agree to this payment plan. You're either an addict or mentally ill, and neither of those debts are legally enforceable. Doesn't mean someone won't take a ballbat to you, but fuck that.

Jeff should borrow in the future from poker players and just keep the $100. They'll just write a really mean post about you on 2plus2.

[sonatine]

u·su·ry
ˈyo͞oZH(ə)rē
noun
the illegal action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest.
archaic
interest at unreasonably high rates.


</thread>

[Crowe Diddly]

Sucks that Scalir keeps getting into these spots, but there's really no call to make here, right? The loans are illegal and immoral, as are the threats, and someone needs to involve the police or an attorney immediately.

Anyone who is aware of this situation and does nothing to try to stop it should be ashamed of themselves.

[Pooh]

Just give Ken the $100 next time Druff.

[Krypt]

[MumblesBadly]

Tell "Jeff" to file a usury law civil suit against "Mark", then contact Judge Judy producers (and similar reality TV shows) to ask for his case to be aired in their show.

[MumblesBadly]

Also see this:

Pursuant to California law, non-exempt lenders (the average individual) can charge a maximum of: (i) 10% interest per year (.8333% per month) for money, goods or things used primarily for personal, family or household purposes and (ii) for other types of loans (home improvement, home purchase, business purposes, etc.), ...

More details here:
http://www.yourlegalcorner.com/artic...?cat=biz&id=97

Also, Druff, help "Jeff" figure out how much excess interest he has paid "Mark" so far, and include those calculations and figure in the filing. Based on how much "Jeff" has already paid, he will certainly be due money back from "Mark".