jsearles and Chinamaniac debate about the value of his WSOP pieces

[chinamaniac]

China,

I am putting this here because I don't want to douche up your main WSOP thread....but I have a question for you. Why add your cash games into same stake as your tournament action. I would trust you and Druff to honestly report your results but realistically there is no way to verify any of your cash game play. Your online play can be tracked and tournament play can be tracked but live cash games cant. If you are able to sell out shares to people that know you and your character really well, I suppose it's not a problem, but if you need folks that don't know you as well to buy, I think it's a legit concern and they would be more likely to just buy tournament action.

I added the 2 together because it is extremely common in the staking world to have MTTS and Cash as bundles as part of a package. If you go to PTP and look at staking packages for WSOP you will probably find plenty that are set up the same way and same on 2+2.

As far as my honesty goes that's up to whomever buys to decide whether I am trustworthy or not. People who get staked live don't have their backers present at all times and that's where a level of trust has to come in. if I play live cash I will tweet what I am playing when I finish and how much I won or lost.

Also online cash tracking is not 100 % on PTR for merge. Here is an example of how I could have fucked my backers which is something I would never do.

PTR has me down like 1500 or 2k on the screen name I recently switched to when I am actually up over 1000 maybe 1500 on that name (I can get the exact # in a bit). It missed 2 or 3 short 15-30 and 20-40 games where I mopped up but I reported what actually happened and reported the true #s.

Any snake or someone dishonest may have used something like that to skew the actual #s so they could keep the winnings because it never was tracked.

So in the end that is up to the backers whether to trust me.

[nunbeater]

jsearles is just mad because he couldn't sell out a dime bap for a penny.

j-les, when you offer stakeback you take the stake amount out of whatever you cash and the rest is split according to the terms of whatever agreement. So if I stake someone $50 and a 50/50 split and they cash for 100 dollars I would get $50 and the remaining 50 would be split between me and the horse. If there was no stakeback agreement then we would split the cash 50/50 and I would end up making 0 dollars for my efforts while the horse made 50 dollars on a free roll. Not really fair for me as a staker to win money but not make any profit. Stakeback protects my profitability which is reasonable since I am the one risking money.

And the cash part of the bap is actually pretty sweet for investors since it is lower variance and a really nice cut for cash. 50/50 is standard and experienced players can get much better cuts. 65% is kind of a gift for a bap like this and definitely lowers variance.

Did you ever get staked for your chinamaniac vs. jsearles challenge? What happened with that?

[Deal]

JS is obviously the worst poster here. If everyone refuses to respond to any post of his then maybe his head will explode and he will stop posting.

[FPS_Russia]

Someone posted a pic of China calling him a doucher or something, all I took from it is I wouldn't trust that dude at all lolol. True story

[Sloppy Joe]

JSearles- Are you looking to buy or are you just spewing faggotry again? How's that diet working out?

[jsearles22]

FFS, for this being a poker site, the respondents are nearly retarded. $50 bet to anyone. I will prove that if you invest 10% in China and he ends up +$7000 then he owes you $755. Any takers? Serial Fail? Nunbeater? Deal?SloppyJoe? China? Anyone. My math is right you fucktards!

With that being said, I have actually changed my stance on this BAP. The cash combined with the tourneys makes it ok. The tourney portion isn't great but the cash off sets that. Chinas BAP is lower variance overall vs one Mtt thus lower return. Druffs is higher risk fora higher reward.

Lastly,I clearly get stake back so I'm not sure why people keep saying that. Nun beater,your example was dumb. No one offers stakes at 50/50 with no stake back! In a stake,stake back is about 98% mandatory. Buying pieces ala Druff and a stake ala China are different set ups.

Did you ever get staked for your china maniac vs jsearles challenge? What happened with that?

China isn't done yet but I'm ahead right now. China has to get above $12,880 to offer a better return so it's close. No one took the bet though (well one guy did but he backed out,wisely). I profited $129.60 and he has to profit $2880 for the exact same return on $50 invested.

JSearles- Are you looking to buy or are you just spewing faggotry again? How's that diet working out?

Im looking to invest. I have $100 on Druff and am thinking about putting $100 on China and see which is better. Anyone want China for a small side wager?
And I'm down to about 207 from my original 225. It's been a roller coaster,but slightly beneficial so far. How's your health bud?

[FPS_Russia]

FFS, for this being a poker site, the respondents are nearly retarded. $50 bet to anyone. I will prove that if you invest 10% in China and he ends up +$7000 then he owes you $755. Any takers? Serial Fail? Nunbeater? Deal?SloppyJoe? China? Anyone. My math is right you fucktards!

With that being said, I have actually changed my stance on this BAP. The cash combined with the tourneys makes it ok. The tourney portion isn't great but the cash off sets that. Chinas BAP is lower variance overall vs one Mtt thus lower return. Druffs is higher risk fora higher reward.

Lastly,I clearly get stake back so I'm not sure why people keep saying that. Nun beater,your example was dumb. No one offers stakes at 50/50 with no stake back! In a stake,stake back is about 98% mandatory. Buying pieces ala Druff and a stake ala China are different set ups.


China isn't done yet but I'm ahead right now. China has to get above $12,880 to offer a better return so it's close. No one took the bet though (well one guy did but he backed out,wisely). I profited $129.60 and he has to profit $2880 for the exact same return on $50 invested.

JSearles- Are you looking to buy or are you just spewing faggotry again? How's that diet working out?

Im looking to invest. I have $100 on Druff and am thinking about putting $100 on China and see which is better. Anyone want China for a small side wager?
And I'm down to about 207 from my original 225. It's been a roller coaster,but slightly beneficial so far. How's your health bud?

Quit being a tight lil bitch, put a fucking grand on each at least or don't waste your time, haha.

[Steve-O]

China,

I am putting this here because I don't want to douche up your main WSOP thread....but I have a question for you. Why add your cash games into same stake as your tournament action. I would trust you and Druff to honestly report your results but realistically there is no way to verify any of your cash game play. Your online play can be tracked and tournament play can be tracked but live cash games cant. If you are able to sell out shares to people that know you and your character really well, I suppose it's not a problem, but if you need folks that don't know you as well to buy, I think it's a legit concern and they would be more likely to just buy tournament action.

I added the 2 together because it is extremely common in the staking world to have MTTS and Cash as bundles as part of a package. If you go to PTP and look at staking packages for WSOP you will probably find plenty that are set up the same way and same on 2+2.

As far as my honesty goes that's up to whomever buys to decide whether I am trustworthy or not. People who get staked live don't have their backers present at all times and that's where a level of trust has to come in. if I play live cash I will tweet what I am playing when I finish and how much I won or lost.

Also online cash tracking is not 100 % on PTR for merge. Here is an example of how I could have fucked my backers which is something I would never do.

PTR has me down like 1500 or 2k on the screen name I recently switched to when I am actually up over 1000 maybe 1500 on that name (I can get the exact # in a bit). It missed 2 or 3 short 15-30 and 20-40 games where I mopped up but I reported what actually happened and reported the true #s.

Any snake or someone dishonest may have used something like that to skew the actual #s so they could keep the winnings because it never was tracked.

So in the end that is up to the backers whether to trust me.

I ran into the same issue when I was staked a few years back: Sharkscope had me way under what I was really running at in STT's, it was off by a good 30% if I remember correctly. What was even scarier was the realization that this could happen the other way as well, and a random backer could very well say "PTR has you up $5,000", and the rality is you are only up $1,000.... So for anyone doing staking online my advice is to have an alternative way to track results since these sites are unreliable.

[Serial Fail]

China isn't done yet but I'm ahead right now. China has to get above $12,880 to offer a better return so it's close. No one took the bet though (well one guy did but he backed out,wisely). I profited $129.60 and he has to profit $2880 for the exact same return on $50 invested.

Anyone capable of playing ABC poker can win at the stakes that you play. When you can beat stakes where the people you are going up against can actually play the game, then you can talk shit.

[jsearles22]

China isn't done yet but I'm ahead right now. China has to get above $12,880 to offer a better return so it's close. No one took the bet though (well one guy did but he backed out,wisely). I profited $129.60 and he has to profit $2880 for the exact same return on $50 invested.

Anyone capable of playing ABC poker can win at the stakes that you play. When you can beat stakes where the people you are going up against can actually play the game, then you can talk shit.

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

[chinamaniac]

Anyone capable of playing ABC poker can win at the stakes that you play. When you can beat stakes where the people you are going up against can actually play the game, then you can talk shit.

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

I think I am ahead of you now. But even if I wasn't one stake wouldnt prove anything> But FTR I have run 4 stakes and profited on all 4

[vegas1369]

Anyone capable of playing ABC poker can win at the stakes that you play. When you can beat stakes where the people you are going up against can actually play the game, then you can talk shit.

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

Please do yourself a favor and learn the difference between "then" and "than" before calling someone else borderline retarded. As you are well aware I have unfortunately read a lot of your posts, and not once have you ever used those two words correctly. Not fucking once. So fucking funny that a guy that talks so much shit still can't grasp something you learn in elementary school.

[jsearles22]

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

I think I am ahead of you now. But even if I wasn't one stake wouldnt prove anything> But FTR I have run 4 stakes and profited on all 4

Your ability to profit was never in question; it was the profitability that you were offering your backers that I was questioning.

[jsearles22]

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

Please do yourself a favor and learn the difference between "then" and "than" before calling someone else borderline retarded. As you are well aware I have unfortunately read a lot of your posts, and not once have you ever used those two words correctly. Not fucking once. So fucking funny that a guy that talks so much shit still can't grasp something you learn in elementary school.

Ahhhhhhh shit, the spelling nazi is up in this bitch!!

I will bet you $1,000,000 at 50:1 that I have used those words correctly at least once!

Tight life bro; still no other traffic here except trolling me. I would think you could find other things to do than that!

[vegas1369]

Please do yourself a favor and learn the difference between "then" and "than" before calling someone else borderline retarded. As you are well aware I have unfortunately read a lot of your posts, and not once have you ever used those two words correctly. Not fucking once. So fucking funny that a guy that talks so much shit still can't grasp something you learn in elementary school.

Ahhhhhhh shit, the spelling nazi is up in this bitch!!

I will bet you $1,000,000 at 50:1 that I have used those words correctly at least once!

Tight life bro; still no other traffic here except trolling me. I would think you could find other things to do than that!

It's not a spelling error, it's a grammar issue. And I would take that bet if you could pay because I know you have not used it correctly once. Please prove me wrong and link me to ONE post where you have used it correctly. It's something I noticed about you a while ago, but I just laughed about it and never said anything. Trust me, up until my last post you didn't know the difference between then and than.

Also, my last 6 posts over the last week before this one had absolutely nothing to do with you, don't flatter yourself thinking I come here to troll you, that would be false. I just feel the need to point out stupidity when I see it, and it just so happens you tend to be the one saying stupid shit more than anyone else. 408mike has gotten off the meth, so obv you have stepped up in that category.

[jsearles22]

Ahhhhhhh shit, the spelling nazi is up in this bitch!!

I will bet you $1,000,000 at 50:1 that I have used those words correctly at least once!

Tight life bro; still no other traffic here except trolling me. I would think you could find other things to do than that!

It's not a spelling error, it's a grammar issue. And I would take that bet if you could pay because I know you have not used it correctly once. Please prove me wrong and link me to ONE post where you have used it correctly. It's something I noticed about you a while ago, but I just laughed about it and never said anything. Trust me, up until my last post you didn't know the difference between then and than.

Also, my last 6 posts over the last week before this one had absolutely nothing to do with you, don't flatter yourself thinking I come here to troll you, that would be false. I just feel the need to point out stupidity when I see it, and it just so happens you tend to be the one saying stupid shit more than anyone else. 408mike has gotten off the meth, so obv you have stepped up in that category.

Book the bet, yes or no? I'm not reading my thousands of posts searching for the words then and than unless you book the bet. Since we obviously aren't making a bet for millions, I will bet you $500?

[vegas1369]

It's not a spelling error, it's a grammar issue. And I would take that bet if you could pay because I know you have not used it correctly once. Please prove me wrong and link me to ONE post where you have used it correctly. It's something I noticed about you a while ago, but I just laughed about it and never said anything. Trust me, up until my last post you didn't know the difference between then and than.

Also, my last 6 posts over the last week before this one had absolutely nothing to do with you, don't flatter yourself thinking I come here to troll you, that would be false. I just feel the need to point out stupidity when I see it, and it just so happens you tend to be the one saying stupid shit more than anyone else. 408mike has gotten off the meth, so obv you have stepped up in that category.

Book the bet, yes or no? I'm not reading my thousands of posts searching for the words then and than unless you book the bet. Since we obviously aren't making a bet for millions, I will bet you $500?

Do you not realize how much dumber this is making you look asking me to book a bet about something that you learn in elementary school? Maybe you luckboxed your way into using it correctly ONE fucking time, I could be wrong as I don't read every post you make, but the point is, and you haven't even denied this, YOU ARE CALLING PEOPLE BORDERLINE RETARDED YET YOU DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEN AND THAN UNTIL I JUST POINTED IT OUT.

I have a better bet for you... How about I find, lets say 15 posts, where you have used those two words incorrectly? I will bet you $1000. Booked?

[jsearles22]

Book the bet, yes or no? I'm not reading my thousands of posts searching for the words then and than unless you book the bet. Since we obviously aren't making a bet for millions, I will bet you $500?

Do you not realize how much dumber this is making you look asking me to book a bet about something that you learn in elementary school? Maybe you luckboxed your way into using it correctly ONE fucking time, I could be wrong as I don't read every post you make, but the point is, and you haven't even denied this, YOU ARE CALLING PEOPLE BORDERLINE RETARDED YET YOU DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEN AND THAN UNTIL I JUST POINTED IT OUT.

I have a better bet for you... How about I find, lets say 15 posts, where you have used those two words incorrectly? I will bet you $1000. Booked?

25 incorrect usages for $250 with a panel of 3 impartial judges to rule on the validity of each usage and it's merit. Would you book that bet than?

[Sirens]

[QUOTE=jsearles22;18638]

Do you not realize how much dumber this is making you look asking me to book a bet about something that you learn in elementary school? Maybe you luckboxed your way into using it correctly ONE fucking time, I could be wrong as I don't read every post you make, but the point is, and you haven't even denied this, YOU ARE CALLING PEOPLE BORDERLINE RETARDED YET YOU DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEN AND THAN UNTIL I JUST POINTED IT OUT.

I have a better bet for you... How about I find, lets say 15 posts, where you have used those two words incorrectly? I will bet you $1000. Booked?

25 incorrect usages for $250 with a panel of 3 impartial judges to rule on the validity of each usage and it's merit. Would you book that bet than

I would like to book a bet that the bet don't get booked

[Serial Fail]

Anyone capable of playing ABC poker can win at the stakes that you play. When you can beat stakes where the people you are going up against can actually play the game, then you can talk shit.

I know you are borderline retarded serial, so i will spell this out for you. I never claimed to be better then China. The entire bet was an attempt to illustrate that I felt China was giving a poor deal (and the fact that me winning $130 gives the same investment return as him winning $3000 proves that IMO). My skill vs his skill isnt even in question as I play micro stakes and he is a baller. China is god obv. Please run along now child.

Do you think anyone gives a damn that they would have received a better ROI percentage if they had invested in you rather than China? The ROI percentage goes down as the stakes go up, it's pretty simple and anyone who stakes understands that. Anyone in the staking business would gladly invest $1000 into China and bring back $1500 rather than $100 into you and bring back $200. Percentages be damned all they care about is the dollar amount.