jsearles and Chinamaniac debate about the value of his WSOP pieces

[jsearles22]

Can you or Druff please explain the difference between your offer here and his offer? To my untrained eye it seems like Druff is selling pieces of himself and you are actually running a BAP or staking agreement.

For example, lets say you and Druff enter the same $3000 limit event, #48. Druff is marking this up and selling 1% for $37/share. The backers then get 1% of all profit from this event. China is selling the same event dollar for dollar with no markup but is doing so on a 65/35 staking agreement. Therefore if Druff and China both cash for $10,000 in this event and you owned 10% of each you would get back $1000 from Druff for your $370 investment ($630 profit) whereas you would get back $755 from China for your initial $300 investment ($455 profit)

In the above scenario, assuming i have done all of the math correctly, you would make a 38% greater return on your investment with only a 23% increase in risk.

Druff seemingly is the better play here considering he has a better history, has won a WSOP limit bracelet, and seems to be a lower risk.

[chinamaniac]

Can you or Druff please explain the difference between your offer here and his offer? To my untrained eye it seems like Druff is selling pieces of himself and you are actually running a BAP or staking agreement.

For example, lets say you and Druff enter the same $3000 limit event, #48. Druff is marking this up and selling 1% for $37/share. The backers then get 1% of all profit from this event. China is selling the same event dollar for dollar with no markup but is doing so on a 65/35 staking agreement. Therefore if Druff and China both cash for $10,000 in this event and you owned 10% of each you would get back $1000 from Druff for your $370 investment ($630 profit) whereas you would get back $755 from China for your initial $300 investment ($455 profit)

In the above scenario, assuming i have done all of the math correctly, you would make a 38% greater return on your investment with only a 23% increase in risk.

Druff seemingly is the better play here considering he has a better history, has won a WSOP limit bracelet, and seems to be a lower risk.

Your math is most likely off because mine includes stakeback and druffs is direct buy a piece with no stakeback. But I am not going to take the time to break down the exact #s between the 2 offers because his has nothing to do with mine.

What I can tell you is my BAP is 65-35 backers favor for MTTS + cash game action with stakeback

Now please stop trying to ruin this thread. TIA

[jsearles22]

Can you or Druff please explain the difference between your offer here and his offer? To my untrained eye it seems like Druff is selling pieces of himself and you are actually running a BAP or staking agreement.

For example, lets say you and Druff enter the same $3000 limit event, #48. Druff is marking this up and selling 1% for $37/share. The backers then get 1% of all profit from this event. China is selling the same event dollar for dollar with no markup but is doing so on a 65/35 staking agreement. Therefore if Druff and China both cash for $10,000 in this event and you owned 10% of each you would get back $1000 from Druff for your $370 investment ($630 profit) whereas you would get back $755 from China for your initial $300 investment ($455 profit)

In the above scenario, assuming i have done all of the math correctly, you would make a 38% greater return on your investment with only a 23% increase in risk.

Druff seemingly is the better play here considering he has a better history, has won a WSOP limit bracelet, and seems to be a lower risk.

Your math is most likely off because mine includes stakeback and druffs is direct buy a piece with no stakeback. But I am not going to take the time to break down the exact #s between the 2 offers because his has nothing to do with mine.

What I can tell you is my BAP is 65-35 backers favor for MTTS + cash game action with stakeback

Now please stop trying to ruin this thread. TIA

I apologize if you feel I am trying to ruin this thread in any way. I like how you angrily respond to me saying "your math is most likely off" when in fact my math is 100% accurate, but you dont ask people posting retarded gifs to quit fagging up the thread. Im trying to help potential investors better understand the *ahem* opportunity you are proposing.

[Dan Druff]

Your math is most likely off because mine includes stakeback and druffs is direct buy a piece with no stakeback. But I am not going to take the time to break down the exact #s between the 2 offers because his has nothing to do with mine.

What I can tell you is my BAP is 65-35 backers favor for MTTS + cash game action with stakeback

Now please stop trying to ruin this thread. TIA

I apologize if you feel I am trying to ruin this thread in any way. I like how you angrily respond to me saying "your math is most likely off" when in fact my math is 100% accurate, but you dont ask people posting retarded gifs to quit fagging up the thread. Im trying to help potential investors better understand the *ahem* opportunity you are proposing.

He is explaining that your math is "off" in the way that it's not as simple as just breaking down what you get when either of us wins $10,000 in the same event, because his includes stakeback (which has some value), and mine has no stakeback.

I'm not sure how to calculate stakeback value, and won't bother trying, but these are just two very different offers and are hard to compare.

[jsearles22]

I apologize if you feel I am trying to ruin this thread in any way. I like how you angrily respond to me saying "your math is most likely off" when in fact my math is 100% accurate, but you dont ask people posting retarded gifs to quit fagging up the thread. Im trying to help potential investors better understand the *ahem* opportunity you are proposing.

He is explaining that your math is "off" in the way that it's not simple to the point of just breaking down what you get when either of us wins $10,000 in the same event, because his includes stakeback (which has some value), and mine has no stakeback.

I'm not sure how to calculate stakeback value, and won't bother trying, but these are just two very different offers and are hard to compare.

Anyway, jsearles, you made your point, and I think everyone understands it. Please don't disrupt this thread further. If you would like to raise an issue with China, please do it in a different thread.

Stakeback is of no real value. The only feasible way you can calculate value of a stake, BAP, or piece buying is to say if I invest X dollars and you cash for Y, whats my return on investment. In these two scenarios Druffs return is higher. I dont know how thats even disputable.

[chinamaniac]

I apologize if you feel I am trying to ruin this thread in any way. I like how you angrily respond to me saying "your math is most likely off" when in fact my math is 100% accurate, but you dont ask people posting retarded gifs to quit fagging up the thread. Im trying to help potential investors better understand the *ahem* opportunity you are proposing.

He is explaining that your math is "off" in the way that it's not as simple as just breaking down what you get when either of us wins $10,000 in the same event, because his includes stakeback (which has some value), and mine has no stakeback.

I'm not sure how to calculate stakeback value, and won't bother trying, but these are just two very different offers and are hard to compare.

Anyway, jsearles, you made your point, and I think everyone understands it. Please don't disrupt this thread further. If you would like to raise an issue with China, please do it in a different thread.

Yes his math is off because of the stakeback plus I am adding in cash games where I am only taking a 35 % cut so that adds a bonus to it as well considering right now I am running a cash stake and I am getting a 70% cut!!!!

[jsearles22]

He is explaining that your math is "off" in the way that it's not as simple as just breaking down what you get when either of us wins $10,000 in the same event, because his includes stakeback (which has some value), and mine has no stakeback.

I'm not sure how to calculate stakeback value, and won't bother trying, but these are just two very different offers and are hard to compare.

Anyway, jsearles, you made your point, and I think everyone understands it. Please don't disrupt this thread further. If you would like to raise an issue with China, please do it in a different thread.

Yes his math is off because of the stakeback plus I am adding in cash games where I am only taking a 35 % cut so that adds a bonus to it as well considering right now I am running a cash stake and I am getting a 70% cut!!!!

My math is off because of stakeback? So if you finish at $10,000 and someone invested $300 then you wont ship them back $755, meaning they profited $455? How the fuck can you keep spewing that my math is wrong when its not?

[limitles]

Can you or Druff please explain the difference between your offer here and his offer? To my untrained eye it seems like Druff is selling pieces of himself and you are actually running a BAP or staking agreement.

For example, lets say you and Druff enter the same $3000 limit event, #48. Druff is marking this up and selling 1% for $37/share. The backers then get 1% of all profit from this event. China is selling the same event dollar for dollar with no markup but is doing so on a 65/35 staking agreement. Therefore if Druff and China both cash for $10,000 in this event and you owned 10% of each you would get back $1000 from Druff for your $370 investment ($630 profit) whereas you would get back $755 from China for your initial $300 investment ($455 profit)

In the above scenario, assuming i have done all of the math correctly, you would make a 38% greater return on your investment with only a 23% increase in risk.

Druff seemingly is the better play here considering he has a better history, has won a WSOP limit bracelet, and seems to be a lower risk.

You have to calculate the cost of advertising.....Druff is obv getting some advertising dollars from China for this......so China must charge more......lol?

[Deal]

JS is obviously the worst poster here. If everyone refuses to respond to any post of his then maybe his head will explode and he will stop posting.

[FPS_Russia]

Someone posted a pic of China calling him a doucher or something, all I took from it is I wouldn't trust that dude at all lolol. True story

[Deal]

China, how much would you like me to invest in order for you to adhere to one condition. That being that you do not respond to another jseales post during the entire bap.

[chinamaniac]

China, how much would you like me to invest in order for you to adhere to one condition. That being that you do not respond to another jseales post during the entire bap.

hof

[jsearles22]

China, how much would you like me to invest in order for you to adhere to one condition. That being that you do not respond to another jseales post during the entire bap.

hof

You should probably take his money and then do what you want. I presume he is referring to me, but my name is jsearles22, not jseales. You would be in the clear!

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Im thinking about investing $500-$1000, but I have a few quick questions first.

1. Do you play under other SN for yourself while also running this stake?
2. Volume- what do you intend to put in? Just saying "similar to the last BAPs" wont appease me (or others). Im wondering if you have a set amount of hours per day or week you are shooting for?

I think you are a long time winning, but more importantly stable, online LHE player. Investing $1000 6 months ago and then rolling over all profits into the second BAP, and a person would now have $2400 (according to your numbers). Thats a great investment, better then you are getting from a bank.

LOL at you actually following through with this. I almost guarantee you won't end up investing and are just finding a new thing to babble about.

ALL DAY LONG

[limitles]

[bottomset316]

Not trying to fag up this thread, but it just amazes me people are willing to gamble on a bet that might pay a couple hundred bucks 90 days later. I spent $140 the other night on dinner / drinks and did not think twice. Tough economy I guess.

Seriously, "investing" in China playing online poker? You know how ridiculous that is? How about you fags just buy a bunch of scratch offs.

How is the diet China? You back up around 3 bills again?

This place is infested with ball lickers.

[bottomset316]

Not trying to fag up this thread, but it just amazes me people are willing to gamble on a bet that might pay a couple hundred bucks 90 days later. I spent $140 the other night on dinner / drinks and did not think twice. Tough economy I guess.

Seriously, "investing" in China playing online poker? You know how ridiculous that is? How about you fags just buy a bunch of scratch offs.

How is the diet China? You back up around 3 bills again?

This place is infested with ball lickers.

Please take the trolling to this thread


http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...-pieces/page31

No offense China, but you can request nothing. You had a forum and it went out of business. I'll post whenever and wherever I want. You are a guest here

As I stated, I just think its hilarious people are "investing" in your scheme. LOL.

Starting to warm up to this JSearles guy. I think he might be onto something.

[limitles]

Please take the trolling to this thread


http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...-pieces/page31

No offense China, but you can request nothing. You had a forum and it went out of business. I'll post whenever and wherever I want. You are a guest here

As I stated, I just think its hilarious people are "investing" in your scheme. LOL.

Starting to warm up to this JSearles guy. I think he might be onto something.

I don't understand why China gets to clutter this forum with a business proposition? He did it at DD, he does it here, not to mention the promotion of his new competing website over and over again

[jsearles22]

Not that anyone should really be surprised, but China is outright lying about his past BAP results. He has published that $1000 invested had a 20% return so $200 profit when he in fact returned $188/thousand invested. This could be looked at as just careless rounding, but I disagree. Ask any business in the world if they simply fudge 1.2% off the bottom line?

So this got me thinking, has he been stretching the truth all along? So i decided to look into his first BAP that he claims had a 100% ROI. Imagine my surprise when I stumble upon this:

http://www.donkdown.com/forum/6000-c...ml?hilit=stake

Its pretty plain that his numbers arent adding up.



So after China rounded up, the first stake ended at a 75% ROI even though China has been trumpeting a 100% ROI? So two baps and China hasnt accurately portrayed the results of either one of them to future investors?

[limitles]

Scenario ....the Twin Towers are collapsing....China bumps his staking thread