Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Pokerstars Players Push for Reduction in "Excessive" PLO Rake

  1. #1
    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
    Reputation
    457
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,451
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    67881353

    Pokerstars Players Push for Reduction in "Excessive" PLO Rake

    Good luck with that:

    Now, Pot Limit Omaha players have called on PokerStars ambassador Daniel Negreanu to press company executives to lower what they believe is a disproportionate amount of rake taken from the game. This was also covered in last week's PokerScout Scouting Report.

    Negreanu, who is in full agreement of a rake reduction in PLO games, first responded to player concerns in a podcast hosted by Joe "ChicagoJoey" Ingram. In it, he assured that he would do what he could to present the issue to higher-ups.

    The six-time bracelet winner also appeared in a Two Plus Two thread where the issue was discussed in detail. "The reason for concern, first of all, is that PLO players pay significantly higher rake in bb/100 compared to the NLHE players," said poster napsus. "Data shows that the bb/100 rake [in PLO] is more than double at micro-stakes PLO compared to the respective NLHE game."
    Name:  592380-pokerstars-plo-rake.jpg
Views: 607
Size:  14.2 KB

  2. #2
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4314
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,193
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Amaya came out with earnings this morning. Stock has finally overcome the insider trading price risk, imo. There is so much to discuss. Baasov is only 33 and is god.

    Simp & I were right on this stock but got burned by some harmless corporate shenanigans

    Anyway,
    US Nasdaq stock listing coming soon for better liquidity & trading.

    DFS acquisition likely - Fantasy is coming soon!

    I thought sportsbook woulda been out before May v Paq but promised before NFL.

    God, they love love love Spin & Go.

    Amaya IS online poker & gaming. You already know that. If you are interested in what gaming is going to look like in the free world - you know, like Mexico - you gotta strap it on and grind through this conference call. At least skim it.

    Don't rely on the moron poker press only. Like the idiots on 2+2 worried about PLO rake - they lack the understanding of the big picture. Poker gonna be a pimple on Amaya's ass. Something to cross sell. Read it yourself!

    Here is the transcript. Wish I had an audio recording to offer but it's a fucking Canadian company for now.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3184...nscript?page=3

  3. #3
    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
    Reputation
    457
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,451
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Poker gonna be a pimple on Amaya's ass.
    Agreed.....it will never achieve the full profit and growth it (and shareholders) desire from it. Unless the US is completely let back into the mold (I don't even think just the states of CA/NJ/NV will be enough), all "Pokerstars" will be for Amaya is a brand name, like Caesar's and the WSOP, Sony and Playstation, etc.....something to create traffic for its more profitable ventures (DFS/SB/CASINO) as supposed to being the main driver of the entity's profit.

    I've always said a casino where you could link online funds and get them at the cage (like the idea of a Pokerstars casino in NJ) would be where the next phase of growth is *but* only if, again, all the state where involved. Like someone could win a satty in Maine to play an event in LA type of stuff. But that is *so* far away and won't happen in the next 5 years, maybe longer...so I wouldn't blame Amaya saying, "fuck it" and sell Pokerstars to someone (or partner with a casino corporation) for a shit ton of money.

  4. #4
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4314
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,193
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzmoney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Poker gonna be a pimple on Amaya's ass.
    Agreed.....it will never achieve the full profit and growth it (and shareholders) desire from it. Unless the US is completely let back into the mold (I don't even think just the states of CA/NJ/NV will be enough), all "Pokerstars" will be for Amaya is a brand name, like Caesar's and the WSOP, Sony and Playstation, etc.....something to create traffic for its more profitable ventures (DFS/SB/CASINO) as supposed to being the main driver of the entity's profit.

    I've always said a casino where you could link online funds and get them at the cage (like the idea of a Pokerstars casino in NJ) would be where the next phase of growth is *but* only if, again, all the state where involved. Like someone could win a satty in Maine to play an event in LA type of stuff. But that is *so* far away and won't happen in the next 5 years, maybe longer...so I wouldn't blame Amaya saying, "fuck it" and sell Pokerstars to someone (or partner with a casino corporation) for a shit ton of money.
    Baasov's genius is financial - how he went from sleeping on a park bench to creating a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The model he is creating is no different than any brick and mortar. No genius there. If you want to see how all the gambling pieces will fit together in terms of scale just walk into the MGM. Poker is a throw away component meant to cross sell to more lucrative action. Aging Negraneau (hair plugs and dye job) was installed for nostalgia and your entertainment. Think Wayne Newton.

    Baasov should buy GrubHub and have food brought to your house using player points to complete the experience.

    Edit: Of course when I mean food brought to "your house" I mean pierogi's & burritos for ROW. The only gamble US players will be offered is the stock which Baasov is trying to get listed on NASDAQ. He thinks of everything.

    Light regulation in the land of the free. Makes me chuckle every time Druff. Thx
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 05-16-2015 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4314
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,193
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Involved in a business that hires summer help. This past week the college kids have drifted in. While working and shooting the shit I ask them if they play poker. "Yeah, sometimes". Absolutely no passion about it.

    I especially feel like an old man telling them what online used to be like and how we used to love the game. It's like explaining how people were into chess when Bobby Fisher and Spassky were jammin'. They hear the story but the college kids can't relate.

    The subject was actually so awkward and their reaction so disinterested that I have honestly made myself a note to never bring up the subject again.

    Ask the kids about Fantasy sports and they start to show some excitement.

    Amaya is way more interested in getting DFS up and running and will likely buy someone to expedite this.

    PLO rake, lol.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 05-16-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  6. #6
    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
    Reputation
    -12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,590
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    67881353
    I too understand sanlmer.

    I have tried to get friends and family into online poker with no success, and some of these people actually spend real money on zynga chips! As well as real money on fake slots! I just don't get it???

    One explanation I have as "the unofficial rec player representative" is that the grinders and massive multi table ers chase us away. You feel like. Sucker when you deposit 50$ and some asshole takes all your money in an hour.

    Just like most gambling, if you win at least once the first couple of times you play, "your hooked" if you get totally wiped out by a low class pro, it turns you off to ever playing again.

    There has to be some way of letting the newbie play against other newbies, some kind of handicap!!

    I understand online poker is about making money BUT like I said there are sooo many people spending millions on play chips. What is it that stops them from playing real cash???

    Money doesn't buy class boys and girls. I also read on a poker scout link that the grinders are hurting there websites. The minute you sit at a table with 10 bucks to have a little fun and maybe win some money, out come all the cockroach grinders..
    Last edited by thesparten; 05-16-2015 at 02:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10150
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,773
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzmoney View Post

    Agreed.....it will never achieve the full profit and growth it (and shareholders) desire from it. Unless the US is completely let back into the mold (I don't even think just the states of CA/NJ/NV will be enough), all "Pokerstars" will be for Amaya is a brand name, like Caesar's and the WSOP, Sony and Playstation, etc.....something to create traffic for its more profitable ventures (DFS/SB/CASINO) as supposed to being the main driver of the entity's profit.

    I've always said a casino where you could link online funds and get them at the cage (like the idea of a Pokerstars casino in NJ) would be where the next phase of growth is *but* only if, again, all the state where involved. Like someone could win a satty in Maine to play an event in LA type of stuff. But that is *so* far away and won't happen in the next 5 years, maybe longer...so I wouldn't blame Amaya saying, "fuck it" and sell Pokerstars to someone (or partner with a casino corporation) for a shit ton of money.
    Baasov's genius is financial - how he went from sleeping on a park bench to creating a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The model he is creating is no different than any brick and mortar. No genius there. If you want to see how all the gambling pieces will fit together in terms of scale just walk into the MGM. Poker is a throw away component meant to cross sell to more lucrative action. Aging Negraneau (hair plugs and dye job) was installed for nostalgia and your entertainment. Think Wayne Newton.

    Baasov should buy GrubHub and have food brought to your house using player points to complete the experience.

    Edit: Of course when I mean food brought to "your house" I mean pierogi's & burritos for ROW. The only gamble US players will be offered is the stock which Baasov is trying to get listed on NASDAQ. He thinks of everything.

    Light regulation in the land of the free. Makes me chuckle every time Druff. Thx
    No idea what you are rambling about here, but it looks like some tie-in to your laughable idea that poker should just exist in the US with no regulation. Because that model worked out great the first time around.

    It seems like you're trying to say that Amaya doesn't give a crap about Pokerstars, and is just using it for a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

    Uh, no.

    Online poker is VERY lucrative when done right. Scheinberg proved that with the original Pokerstars. The overhead is low, the profits are high, and the risk is low provided that you don't pull a Jen Larson and overspend on marketing before you start making real money.

    Pokerstars is now a virtual monopoly. The competition is a non-factor. If they get licensed in the US, even more of the competition will be crushed.

    Sure, Amaya isn't satisfied just offering poker as Scheinberg was, but they are supplementing the Pokerstars product, not replacing it.

    Is it possible they will sell Pokerstars? Sure. Anything can be bought for the right price.

    Poker no longer has the growth or fad-like excitement that we saw in the mid-2000s, but it has stabilized and remained part of our culture. There is talk of 20,000 unique individuals playing the Colossus at the WSOP. How can you see that and say that poker is dead or dying?

    Brick and mortar cash poker is what's slowly dying. Between the ever-increasing rake, slow pace, and generally unpleasant experience sitting with 8 sometimes angry degenerates, the live cash end of poker is gradually fading. However, the online game is different, and if done correctly, will live on for a very long time.

    Online poker allows you the freedom to play from your home, doesn't carry many of the negative elements experienced at live card rooms, and most importantly, allows most players to delude themselves into believing they are favorites to win. It's not like playing a game like blackjack or craps, where all but the most dim realize the house has an edge. Most poker players sit down believing they have a better chance to win than lose.

    DFS is indeed growing, but it will never reach the popularity of poker. There's too much preparation and research involved.

    If you have a basic understanding of Texas holdem, you can sit down at a poker table and just start playing.

    With DFS, even if you're a big fan of your local sports team, you have to start looking up the stats of players on others teams, figure out who is streaking and who is slumping, and crunch a bunch of other data. It's more effort than most casual players are going to want to expend.

    Poker is much more appealing to those who either want lazy entertainment or easy money. Little studying required. Little learning required. Little research required. Just understand the game, sit down, play, and win! What could be easier?

    This, of course, is also the same argument as to why bitcoin will never catch on with the general population. People are still having trouble understanding how to program their DVR. Are we really going to ever have a mass understanding of the blockchain? I think not.

  8. #8
    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
    Reputation
    -12
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,590
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Druff, I'm in jersey quite often. People who actually spend money on play chips adamantly refuse to play real cash(I don't get it).

    As far as fantasy football, I see many twenty something,s actually sitting around together figuring out there strategies just like a d+d session. Just last year one group of educated well to do Manhattan ites would come to the restaurant and do there fantasy football..

    I mentioned online poker and they also didn't get it.

    It's really weird. Fantasy sports is really hot right now. Even club wpt has some kind of thing going on with draft kings..

    On a side note the advertising to club wpt makes poker seem fun and!! Accessible. The advertising for real cash online poker, suck,s!!!

    The opinion of a rec player in this matter I think has greater relevance then the grinder because I'm the demographic they should be aiming for.

    The working/middle class guy that doesn't mind depositing 75 "here and there".
    Doesn't mind losing as long as I have fun and actually have a chance to win on occasion.

    The feeling of getting jumped by grinders is a real!!# turn off.
    My feeling,s on this matter has been validated by negranu as well as quite a few poker articles.

    Fantasy football is the shit right now. If I signed up to real cash poker before my experience with club poker... I would of left it!!!

  9. #9
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4314
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,193
    Load Metric
    67881353
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post

    Baasov's genius is financial - how he went from sleeping on a park bench to creating a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The model he is creating is no different than any brick and mortar. No genius there. If you want to see how all the gambling pieces will fit together in terms of scale just walk into the MGM. Poker is a throw away component meant to cross sell to more lucrative action. Aging Negraneau (hair plugs and dye job) was installed for nostalgia and your entertainment. Think Wayne Newton.

    Baasov should buy GrubHub and have food brought to your house using player points to complete the experience.

    Edit: Of course when I mean food brought to "your house" I mean pierogi's & burritos for ROW. The only gamble US players will be offered is the stock which Baasov is trying to get listed on NASDAQ. He thinks of everything.

    Light regulation in the land of the free. Makes me chuckle every time Druff. Thx
    No idea what you are rambling about here, but it looks like some tie-in to your laughable idea that poker should just exist in the US with no regulation. Because that model worked out great the first time around.

    It seems like you're trying to say that Amaya doesn't give a crap about Pokerstars, and is just using it for a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

    Uh, no.



    Online poker is VERY lucrative when done right. Scheinberg proved that with the original Pokerstars. The overhead is low, the profits are high, and the risk is low provided that you don't pull a Jen Larson and overspend on marketing before you start making real money.

    Pokerstars is now a virtual monopoly. The competition is a non-factor. If they get licensed in the US, even more of the competition will be crushed.

    Sure, Amaya isn't satisfied just offering poker as Scheinberg was, but they are supplementing the Pokerstars product, not replacing it.

    Is it possible they will sell Pokerstars? Sure. Anything can be bought for the right price.

    Poker no longer has the growth or fad-like excitement that we saw in the mid-2000s, but it has stabilized and remained part of our culture. There is talk of 20,000 unique individuals playing the Colossus at the WSOP. How can you see that and say that poker is dead or dying?

    Brick and mortar cash poker is what's slowly dying. Between the ever-increasing rake, slow pace, and generally unpleasant experience sitting with 8 sometimes angry degenerates, the live cash end of poker is gradually fading. However, the online game is different, and if done correctly, will live on for a very long time.

    Online poker allows you the freedom to play from your home, doesn't carry many of the negative elements experienced at live card rooms, and most importantly, allows most players to delude themselves into believing they are favorites to win. It's not like playing a game like blackjack or craps, where all but the most dim realize the house has an edge. Most poker players sit down believing they have a better chance to win than lose.

    DFS is indeed growing, but it will never reach the popularity of poker. There's too much preparation and research involved.

    If you have a basic understanding of Texas holdem, you can sit down at a poker table and just start playing.

    With DFS, even if you're a big fan of your local sports team, you have to start looking up the stats of players on others teams, figure out who is streaking and who is slumping, and crunch a bunch of other data. It's more effort than most casual players are going to want to expend.

    Poker is much more appealing to those who either want lazy entertainment or easy money. Little studying required. Little learning required. Little research required. Just understand the game, sit down, play, and win! What could be easier?
    but it looks like some tie-in to your laughable idea that poker should just exist in the US with no regulation.
    This, of course, is also the same argument as to why bitcoin will never catch on with the general population. People are still having trouble understanding how to program their DVR. Are we really going to ever have a mass understanding of the blockchain? I think not.
    Like a good debater you key on the weak phrase to dismiss the entire argument - add a little ugly misstatement and I am left with a whisp of smoke circling my head.

    but it looks like some tie-in to your laughable idea that poker should just exist in the US with no regulation.
    First, you know my position regarding legislation of poker in the US is this:
    Given the way laws are created in the U.S., government is incapable of developing & approving sane & workable regulation for online poker. The attempts so far have been dysfunctional & such colossal failures and serve as a hint of the results you can expect moving forward.

    Light sensible regulation is simply not going to be possible. It's just not how the game works here.

    Rather than suffer US regulation I would elect laissez faire, caveat emptor & pip pip tally-ho. We HAVE learned something. Many poker companies are NOW PUBLIC. Someone smart will provide the market with information regarding poker site safety and the potential for fraud. Maybe call it Poker Fraud Alert.

    Online poker is VERY lucrative when done right. Scheinberg proved that with the original Pokerstars. The overhead is low, the profits are high
    Where did the idea that Amaya might sell PokerStars come from? That is ridiculous. Amaya DID pay a lot for poker. Overhead is HIGH. $4.9b It had better generate good money to pay back the investment. However, it (poker) would have been a lousy investment if it ended there. If you are not growing as a business you are dying. Poker is not growing. Lots of recent numbers worldwide to support that claim. The PokerStar's customer base poker is an opportunity for synergism & cross-sell to more lucrative sales. DFS rake is almost criminal. Casino & sportsbook - you get this part, I think.

    There is talk of 20,000 unique individuals playing the Colossus at the WSOP.
    .
    I should have known to expect this. SrslySirius pulled that old saw on me last year. I'll have to think about that a little bit. My intuition tells me the attraction is just another MegaBucks/Powerball Lottery that Americans love so much. If you had a $5 million dollar free-throw shooting tournament you would get 20,000. It's hardly representative of the health of the game.


    In an effort to preserve your self-esteem I will praise your observation regarding poker & Bitcoin barrier to entry. Well done. Sincerely.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 05-18-2015 at 03:47 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. "MODEL CITIZEN" "DAN DRUFF" "DOESNT" KILL CHIL'RIN
    By Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-04-2016, 12:46 AM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-01-2014, 05:48 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-14-2014, 01:10 PM
  4. New "user friendly" porn site is funded by poker players
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-24-2013, 05:09 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2012, 03:34 AM