Interesting MMA scandal is brewing: fight fixing accusations

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08-11-2015, 10:03 AM
sonatine

Interesting MMA scandal is brewing: fight fixing accusations

So about 10 days ago, Wandy started going off about how there was fight fixing in the UFC, which no one really paid much attention to since he claimed that he had 'proof' which never materialized, shock of shocks.

Tito Ortiz just chimed in and said there was _definitely_ fight fixing in the UFC and that he was positive the judges were paid off in his fight against Forrest. Which.. is interesting but probably the bitter declarations of a fading star with early onset dementia.

But honestly its pretty noteworthy that these two are willing to go toe to toe with Zuffa's notoriously efficient legal team over these claims. Zuffa has already filed all sorts of nasty legal shit against Wand over his claims so for Tito to even step into the line of fire makes me wonder if something might come of this.

Would anyone realllllly be that surprised if the FBI held a press conference in a month saying they found the offshore accounts and paper trails detailing organized fight fixing in MMA?
08-11-2015, 10:19 AM
Shizzmoney

1 Attachment(s)

With the size of the odds that some of these underdogs get too, I wouldn't be shocked.

speaking of rigged: Aldo/McGregor just announced for Dec 12
08-11-2015, 10:23 AM
BeerAndPoker

Nothing should surprise anyone when money is involved both from immediate funds for anyone who is involved in a fix to a setup "fix" by an MMA company to benefit their future back end profits.
08-11-2015, 10:27 AM
SrslySirius

Who all benefits from match fixing? I get why boxing managers do it, to protect their best fighters and pad their records. I would think that the actual organizations would hate it.
08-11-2015, 10:31 AM
gut

Quote:

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Who all benefits from match fixing? I get why boxing managers do it, to protect their best fighters and pad their records. I would think that the actual organizations would hate it.

I know you're not this dumb. I am seriously confused if this was serious or a trolol
08-11-2015, 10:41 AM
SrslySirius

Quote:

Originally Posted by gut

Quote:

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Who all benefits from match fixing? I get why boxing managers do it, to protect their best fighters and pad their records. I would think that the actual organizations would hate it.

I know you're not this dumb. I am seriously confused if this was serious or a trolol

Well I guess I am that dumb? I'm asking because I don't know.

The only motive that makes sense to me is simply to hype up big fights, but that seems unsustainable. Then again, it happened forever in boxing (still does?), so maybe fans don't care too much.

Similar to the reasoning as to why poker sites shouldn't be rigged, UFC has a good thing going so why risk fucking it up?
08-11-2015, 10:41 AM
cmoney

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonatine

So about 10 days ago, Wandy started going off about how there was fight fixing in the UFC, which no one really paid much attention to since he claimed that he had 'proof' which never materialized, shock of shocks.

Tito Ortiz just chimed in and said there was _definitely_ fight fixing in the UFC and that he was positive the judges were paid off in his fight against Forrest. Which.. is interesting but probably the bitter declarations of a fading star with early onset dementia.

But honestly its pretty noteworthy that these two are willing to go toe to toe with Zuffa's notoriously efficient legal team over these claims. Zuffa has already filed all sorts of nasty legal shit against Wand over his claims so for Tito to even step into the line of fire makes me wonder if something might come of this.

Would anyone realllllly be that surprised if the FBI held a press conference in a month saying they found the offshore accounts and paper trails detailing organized fight fixing in MMA?

It is also interesting because I think Tito manages Cyborg, so I dont see what he has to gain by making up shit. It seems as if the right play for Tito (if fight fixing is true) is to stfu so he can get the Rhonda/Cybord fight and print money.
08-11-2015, 10:47 AM
shortbuspoker

Who knows when it comes to Tito's stupid ass, but here is why Wandy suddenly stfu.
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/13...-company-zuffa
08-11-2015, 10:55 AM
sonatine

Quote:

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Quote:

Originally Posted by gut

I know you're not this dumb. I am seriously confused if this was serious or a trolol

Well I guess I am that dumb? I'm asking because I don't know.

The only motive that makes sense to me is simply to hype up big fights, but that seems unsustainable. Then again, it happened forever in boxing (still does?), so maybe fans don't care too much.

Similar to the reasoning as to why poker sites shouldn't be rigged, UFC has a good thing going so why risk fucking it up?

There are lots of different types of fight fixing and lots of different people who stand to benefit.

Example; Seth Petruzelli being offered a huge bonus to stand and trade with Kimbo. Thats a pretty subtle attempt to influence the outcome of the fight cloaked in a 'we want to keep this interesting' type sales pitch. Didnt go the way the promoters planned but you get the idea, and it demonstrates that the line is constantly crossed.

Slithering down Dante's morality ladder, you have the more obvious shit like stacking up on a huge dog when you know the favorite is going to lose. There was a real high profile incident back in the days when Yves Edwards showed up at like -425 against some relatively unknown kickboxer (Hominick maybe?) and literally minutes before the fight, something like 50k+ went on Hominick, who won via a shot to the liver in the first then basically crumpled Yves. No one could prove that Yves' camp didnt place the bet, but Yves couldnt book a match for a long time after that fight and when he did, the books refused to set a line on it.

Then you have the big business shit; if you can make $50m off a match between Fighter A and Fighter B, but Fighter B needs to weather Fighter C first, maybe its worth working with the judges or Fighter C directly to make sure things pan out as desired. Maybe you're just sick of Fighter C's bullshit, and a couple of the judges are vulnerable.

Bottom line; for all the reasons people fixed boxing matches, people could be fixing MMA.
08-11-2015, 12:27 PM
Crowe Diddly

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmoney

It is also interesting because I think Tito manages Cyborg

tito was cyborg's co-manager (lol) for about 15 minutes in 2013, at which point he got her her release from her UFC contract. He was removed from any managerial decisions almost immediately after that. He also said she'd die if she tried to cut to 135 and shit like that.

The problem with the people who accuse the UFC of shit is that they're the same type of characters you see suing the WWE all the time, guys with shit reps with almost no credibility. Like, Billy Jack Haynes sued the WWE for concussions and shit, but he a lying drug addict who worked all over the place and burned all sorts of bridges long before he ever came to the wwe, and well after. Tito and Wand are idiots who say idiot things all the time, so even if they're right here, who can possibly ever believe them?

if there's fixing in MMA, you'd have to think it lies outside of the promotion, not within. Of course, when you are a billionaire business man who gets what he wants in the business you feel like you single-handedly resurrected (dana or lorenzo), you might be tempted to make a gamble a sure thing.
08-11-2015, 02:27 PM
Hockey Guy

I think the UFC fixing fights is a little far fetched but fighters throwing fights isn't out of the realm. Just look at what some of these guys make per fight, even some of the headliners.

Now with the new Reebok deal cutting into their earning potential I can see it happening even more now. We were told for years, by fighters & the UFC itself, that you needed to get into the UFC to make any money in MMA but judging by their purses it had to be because of sponsorships. What stopping a big favorite from betting it all on himself & taking a dive when a loss doesn't really do anything to derail title aspirations & future paydays? You don't have to look any further than Gus who's getting a title shot coming off a devastating KO loss. As long as it looks totally believable......
08-11-2015, 02:48 PM
sonatine

To be clear, the Gus situation is complicated; he only agreed to fight Anthony Johnson as a courtesy to the UFC; he had been promised a rematch against Jones. So its not too hard to guess that given AJ's mysterious evolution into a KO monster, there was a stipulation in the contract that said "God fine I'll fight him but I get Jones next no matter what" which obv translated into a strap fight with DC once Jones imploded.

Also I agree with Crowe re this being something that takes place either on the fringes of the org or outside it entirely. I do not believe for a second that Zuffa as an entity would do anything to risk their position. That does leave a lot of wiggle room for shenans tho regardless, above and beyond the more egregious examples.
08-11-2015, 03:29 PM
Hockey Guy

Definitely NOT implying that Gus threw that fight. Just used it as an example of how a loss doesn't necessarily set you back in MMA. I don't remember him being a big favorite in that fight either.
08-11-2015, 04:09 PM
Kuntmissioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

What stopping a big favorite from betting it all on himself & taking a dive

Seems like a silly thing to do, HG.
08-11-2015, 04:27 PM
Hockey Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

What stopping a big favorite from betting it all on himself & taking a dive

Seems like a silly thing to do, HG.

Not really. If you look at what some of these guys make, even headliners, then take into consideration that they just got fucked over by the UFC on this Reebok deal, I don't think it's that far fetched.

They have guys headlining shows who's base pay is less than 20K & are now getting 5K or less from the Reebok deal when they were getting, by some estimations & admissions, 50-100K so it doesn't take much of an imagination to think it could happen. Of course if they didn't make it look 100% believable or were exposed they would be fucked for life from ever making another dime in MMA.

Just go look at some of the payouts for these fighters. If they don't get a PPV % to worry about, which very few do, it's more than plausible IMO.
08-11-2015, 04:33 PM
Daly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner

Seems like a silly thing to do, HG.

Not really. If you look at what some of these guys make, even headliners, then take into consideration that they just got fucked over by the UFC on this Reebok deal, I don't think it's that far fetched.

They have guys headlining shows who's base pay is less than 20K & are now getting 5K or less from the Reebok deal when they were getting, by some estimations & admissions, 50-100K so it doesn't take much of an imagination to think it could happen. Of course if they didn't make it look 100% believable or were exposed they would be fucked for life from ever making another dime in MMA.

Just go look at some of the payouts for these fighters. If they don't get a PPV % to worry about, which very few do, it's more than plausible IMO.

Yeah - this. Some mid card fighter can make $25K from a card with the promise of another fight, or they can take a dive and get some "real $$".
08-11-2015, 04:59 PM
sonatine

According to Tim Kennedy, he made more money in his last Strikeforce fight than anyone did on the UFN 73 roster. And what with it getting harder and harder to afford a proper roid program, I expect a lot of underdogs to pay off in the near future.
08-11-2015, 05:04 PM
Crowe Diddly

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonatine

According to Tim Kennedy, he made more money in his last Strikeforce fight than anyone did on the UFN 73 roster. And what with it getting harder and harder to afford a proper roid program, I expect a lot of underdogs to pay off in the near future.

If you are talking about on the MMA Hour, he said he made more money in sponsorships off his last strikeforce fight than the entire UFC73 earned in Reebok payouts.
08-11-2015, 05:07 PM
Crowe Diddly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

What stopping a big favorite from betting it all on himself & taking a dive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner

Seems like a silly thing to do, HG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

Not really.

Yes, really. If a big favorite bets on himself then throws the fight and loses, he has less money, not more.

DUCY?
08-11-2015, 05:13 PM
sonatine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonatine

According to Tim Kennedy, he made more money in his last Strikeforce fight than anyone did on the UFN 73 roster. And what with it getting harder and harder to afford a proper roid program, I expect a lot of underdogs to pay off in the near future.

If you are talking about on the MMA Hour, he said he made more money in sponsorships off his last strikeforce fight than the entire UFC73 earned in Reebok payouts.

LOL WAY 2 LISTEN TO PODCASTS NERD.

i had no idea, im sure youre right, i heard it through the grapevine.