What would Rumsfeld do?
We miss him already.
LOL reminds me of a little thing the CIA once didQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
I bet sonatine could never guess what political party fucked that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaiLOL reminds me of a little thing the CIA once didQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
The mayor of Miami is the son of Cuban immigrants, who was born in Miami, and is a part of the giant Cuban expat community that despises the Communist regime. I think this is more personal for him (and playing to the local populace) and doesn't really fit neatly into the elephant vs donkey paradigm, and this is a bit of a reach.
Truman started the CIA but Eisenhower pulled the pin. Even Truman knew bad (inept) regime change shit was gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by gutI bet sonatine could never guess what political party fucked that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwai
Oh, gosh …. The inaugural C.I.A. regime change was a fuck up called the Bay of Pigs
The answer was Republican
I don’t mean to rain on your GOP hate party but the Bay of Pigs happened in April 1961 and last time I checked JFK was POTUS and he was a Democrat.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarTruman started the CIA but Eisenhower pulled the pin. Even Truman knew bad (inept) regime change shit was gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Oh, gosh …. The inaugural C.I.A. regime change was a fuck up called the Bay of Pigs
The answer was Republican
C.I.A. Chief Allen Dulles was installed by Eisenhower (R). Dulles drew Kennedy into the fiasco. Dulles and the Joint Chiefs were certain and gambled Kennedy would draw in the military. They wanted war with the Soviets. Kennedy passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftpjesusI don’t mean to rain on your GOP hate party but the Bay of Pigs happened in April 1961 and last time I checked JFK was POTUS and he was a Democrat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Kennedy fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion, and told a friend that he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds.” The outrage was very obviously mutual.
Fun bonus:
When Kennedy himself was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman – as it did to many others – that the disgraced Dulles and his unrepentant associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a president they felt was soft on Communism and get even for their Bay of Pigs fiasco.
I kinda slow played that one ftp. Hope no bad feelings. Peace
The fun part is if any one of the “little” countries had a pair of balls they wouldn’t ask the entire union to back there fucked up thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarC.I.A. Chief Allen Dulles was installed by Eisenhower (R). Dulles drew Kennedy into the fiasco. Dulles and the Joint Chiefs were certain and gambled Kennedy would draw in the military. They wanted war with the Soviets. Kennedy passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftpjesus
Kennedy fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion, and told a friend that he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds.” The outrage was very obviously mutual.
Fun bonus:
When Kennedy himself was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman – as it did to many others – that the disgraced Dulles and his unrepentant associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a president they felt was soft on Communism and get even for their Bay of Pigs fiasco.
I kinda slow played that one ftp. Hope no bad feelings. Peace
JFK was pussyfooting around, classic dem move. Had to act strong against Communism/Cuba, since he ran on that, but when it came time to actually do something, he neutered the attack plan and doomed it to fail. Solid strategy...whatever, he was banging some floozy that night no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarC.I.A. Chief Allen Dulles was installed by Eisenhower (R). Dulles drew Kennedy into the fiasco. Dulles and the Joint Chiefs were certain and gambled Kennedy would draw in the military. They wanted war with the Soviets. Kennedy passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftpjesus
Kennedy fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion, and told a friend that he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds.” The outrage was very obviously mutual.
Fun bonus:
When Kennedy himself was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman – as it did to many others – that the disgraced Dulles and his unrepentant associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a president they felt was soft on Communism and get even for their Bay of Pigs fiasco.
I kinda slow played that one ftp. Hope no bad feelings. Peace
I'm not sure there were 2 dumber mf'ers in high office in the last 100 years than JFK and his brother. No surprise what happened to them. When people are still arguing 60 years later over which organization killed you, because literally everyone hated you, not a good sign.
Unless you have your own army, you don't attack the cops and the robbers at the same time.
Truman Doctrine
The Truman Doctrine was an American foreign policy with the primary goal of containing Soviet geopolitical expansion during the Cold War. It was announced to Congress by President Harry S. Truman on March 12, 1947,[1] and further developed on July 4, 1948, when he pledged to contain the communist uprisings in Greece and Turkey.Direct American military force was usually not involved,
There is enough fail and nefarious activity to go around. Personally, I have long felt Truman was the scourge fresh off WWII and set us up for post war fail after fail.
We came incredibly close to not having Truman and thus American international politics might have taken a much different direction
The discovery of the CIA Chief Allen Dulles (Eisenhower) is a more recent treat and makes it difficult to lay the blame for a policy and value system that was responsible for Vietnam —> Afghanistan
There are no heroes
huh? before Bay of Pigs in 1961 the cia was involved in coups of Iran 1953, and Guatamala 1954 and the Congo 1960. And after the US was in on Dominican Republic (1961), South Vietnam (1963), Brazil (1964) and Chile (1973)...plus before the CIA came into being the US overthrew Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Phillipines, Nicaragua, Panama and a few othersQuote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarTruman started the CIA but Eisenhower pulled the pin. Even Truman knew bad (inept) regime change shit was gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Oh, gosh …. The inaugural C.I.A. regime change was a fuck up called the Bay of Pigs
The answer was Republican
indeed, there was a lot of meddling the US did that isn't taught in schools
What an idiot. Nuclear warfare potentially 90 miles away and you consider JFK ‘s move pussyfooting?Quote:
Originally Posted by gutJFK was pussyfooting around, classic dem move. Had to act strong against Communism/Cuba, since he ran on that, but when it came time to actually do something, he neutered the attack plan and doomed it to fail. Solid strategy...whatever, he was banging some floozy that night no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
I'm not sure there were 2 dumber mf'ers in high office in the last 100 years than JFK and his brother. No surprise what happened to them. When people are still arguing 60 years later over which organization killed you, because literally everyone hated you, not a good sign.
Unless you have your own army, you don't attack the cops and the robbers at the same time.
The options were incredible and not good for either side. Read a book
Hey, as you can probably tell, i'm no imperialist. But it would have been nice if Kennedy at least had the nuts to just say NO to the entire fucking operation. He did have those balls, history shows he wasn't lacking in that department. So again what he did was try to half-ass politico the shit, and it turned into a disaster. Then he blamed other people, which is the most American thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Tomato, tomato, I suppose. Just different viewpoints here.
No hard feelings. In fact it’s not much of a secret the Warhawks were indeed behind Kennedy’s assassination after he had a second chance to do their bidding and backed out on invading Cuba during the Missile Crisis as the brass all thought a Nuclear war was winneable and may have been given the US superiority and ability to strike rapidly and potentially decapitate the Soviets with only their bombers a threat really. Anyway when Kennedy balked on that (we were actually 24hrs of going in per my Dad who was a newly commissioned 2LT at Benning and we’re on alert to go). They decided he had to go. Kennedy also balked at going into replace the French who’d pulled out of Vietnam already seeing the quagmire for what it was way ahead of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarC.I.A. Chief Allen Dulles was installed by Eisenhower (R). Dulles drew Kennedy into the fiasco. Dulles and the Joint Chiefs were certain and gambled Kennedy would draw in the military. They wanted war with the Soviets. Kennedy passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ftpjesus
Kennedy fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion, and told a friend that he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds.” The outrage was very obviously mutual.
Fun bonus:
When Kennedy himself was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman – as it did to many others – that the disgraced Dulles and his unrepentant associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a president they felt was soft on Communism and get even for their Bay of Pigs fiasco.
I kinda slow played that one ftp. Hope no bad feelings. Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by gutHey, as you can probably tell, i'm no imperialist. But it would have been nice if Kennedy at least had the nuts to just say NO to the entire fucking operation. He did have those balls, history shows he wasn't lacking in that department. So again what he did was try to half-ass politico the shit, and it turned into a disaster. Then he blamed other people, which is the most American thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Tomato, tomato, I suppose. Just different viewpoints here.
i think you also have to view it through the lens of domino theory / soviet aggression.
it wasnt long after BoP that khrushchev went ham with the cuban nuke bases.
im painting in broad strokes here, of course.
Inserting “Inaugural” was pretty stupid. Wonder why I did thatQuote:
Originally Posted by GrenadaRogerhuh? before Bay of Pigs in 1961 the cia was involved in coups of Iran 1953, and Guatamala 1954 and the Congo 1960. And after the US was in on Dominican Republic (1961), South Vietnam (1963), Brazil (1964) and Chile (1973)...plus before the CIA came into being the US overthrew Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Phillipines, Nicaragua, Panama and a few othersQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
indeed, there was a lot of meddling the US did that isn't taught in schools
You’re right, Eisenhower, Dulles and the CIA has been hard at work since ‘53.
Limitles is right tho. I would not have bet on the US with nukes
Who the “aggressor” was depended on which continent you resided. We were pretty busy too. We had announced in plain English what our intentions were.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by gut
i think you also have to view it through the lens of domino theory / soviet aggression.
it wasnt long after BoP that khrushchev went ham with the cuban nuke bases.
im painting in broad strokes here, of course.
I still feel that when talking about preferred alternate history, i would rank it asQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by gut
i think you also have to view it through the lens of domino theory / soviet aggression.
it wasnt long after BoP that khrushchev went ham with the cuban nuke bases.
im painting in broad strokes here, of course.
1. we did nothing (no BoP)
2. we full on assraped Cuba and took it over
3. what actually happened
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarWho the “aggressor” was depended on which continent you resided. We were pretty busy too. We had announced in plain English what our intentions were.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
i subscribed to a very anti-american intelligence apparatus perspective (informed largely by dead kennedys lyrics) until the day i read oleg kalugin's autobiography.