Virtue Poker owes a bunch of it’s beta testers

They have been jerking a bunch of people around, making them wait several months to then have to complete KYC (why?) and some have never received a KYC request and get no responses from support (including my elderly mother who I warned not to play but she misses gambling). Lots of people put in a lot of time as beta testers and say they have not been paid. Class action maybe? Can anyone suggest an attorney? I feel especially bad for the investors who keep getting the runaround as well about when certain things will roll out. Somehow they have Ivey and Rast as pros. Software is total crap. You can win a hand and then it is suddenly cancelled. Totally not ready, this platform will be a complete failure.

Any ideas? Pretty scummy to not pay people that honestly provided you with a service.

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Originally Posted by CryptoNinja

They have been jerking a bunch of people around, making them wait several months to then have to complete KYC (why?) and some have never received a KYC request and get no responses from support (including my elderly mother who I warned not to play but she misses gambling). Lots of people put in a lot of time as beta testers and say they have not been paid. Class action maybe? Can anyone suggest an attorney? I feel especially bad for the investors who keep getting the runaround as well about when certain things will roll out. Somehow they have Ivey and Rast as pros. Software is total crap. You can win a hand and then it is suddenly cancelled. Totally not ready, this platform will be a complete failure.

Any ideas? Pretty scummy to not pay people that honestly provided you with a service.

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Where did you get this info? Any article you can link us to?

No article has been written on this. I participated in beta 1 and it was such a shi* show, I was done with it. Told my Mom about it, she wanted to play Beta 2 so I set it up for her. She also played in beta 3 (ongoing) but has now stopped because she feels scammed and the software is so bad (like I mentioned above, hands getting cancelled, etc). Her emails to support get no response. They owe her 1 Ethereum and somewhere around 15k of their token VPP. Other people on Twitter have posted similar stories. Search “virtue poker scam” and you’ll find them. Also lots of complaints about difficulty passing KYC in their telegram.

I think you can still get in on beta 3 if you want to check it out for yourself.

This is from June 8:

https://virtuepoker.ghost.io/update-...-final-tables/

Will cover on radio tonight

Tried calling in. The issues with fraud they mention are separate from KYC.

There are 2 processes. First, there is a “game security review”. Obviously I don’t know what that process is but I assume they check for collusion and such. If you pass that, then you have to pass KYC, which there is really no way to fake. So there’s really no way “sign up your Mom and get paid twice.” kinda thing. We did not ever even play in the same beta round, so ...anyway, most the players are Russian, so who knows what kind of “fraud” they have uncovered but I am not surprised. The owner I believe is Ryan Gitelson. Something like that. Know him?

Oh, also, maybe because of this post, support finally did reach out to my Mom to start the KYC process, so once she completes that, she should get paid. I agree with what you said, it’s not a scam, it’s just a shit show.

Sorry, I didn't see your call. Would have liked to have taken it.

Radio topic was at the 2:50:44 mark, for anyone interested: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...13-2020-Axel-W

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Originally Posted by CryptoNinja

Tried calling in. The issues with fraud they mention are separate from KYC.

There are 2 processes. First, there is a “game security review”. Obviously I don’t know what that process is but I assume they check for collusion and such. If you pass that, then you have to pass KYC, which there is really no way to fake. So there’s really no way “sign up your Mom and get paid twice.” kinda thing. We did not ever even play in the same beta round, so ...anyway, most the players are Russian, so who knows what kind of “fraud” they have uncovered but I am not surprised. The owner I believe is Ryan Gitelson. Something like that. Know him?

Oh, also, maybe because of this post, support finally did reach out to my Mom to start the KYC process, so once she completes that, she should get paid. I agree with what you said, it’s not a scam, it’s just a shit show.

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Oh, and like I said on radio, it's amazing that such intelligent people can design these complex cryptography-based poker sites, but are so bad at managing the site itself, and at developing basic working features of the software.

This totally looks like a case of misplaced priorities.

BTW, did they really raise $5,9 million selling those VPP tokens, or did I misunderstand something?

More than that. ETH was more then.

Wow.

From what I understand, the VPPs have no real value until they are supposedly "traded" later, right?

Did your mom buy those 15k VPPs, or did she earn them for beta testing?

Right, supposedly (and they wont address any questions regarding this) VPPs will eventually be listed on an exchange, which in and of itself is not that difficult, but who knows what value they will have. Getting listed on a major exchange will be more difficult. They keep claiming that a Maltese gaming license is holding things up. It’s always some excuse.

She earned the VPPs.

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Originally Posted by CryptoNinja

Right, supposedly (and they wont address any questions regarding this) VPPs will eventually be listed on an exchange, which in and of itself is not that difficult, but who knows what value they will have. Getting listed on a major exchange will be more difficult. They keep claiming that a Maltese gaming license is holding things up. It’s always some excuse.

She earned the VPPs.

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Yeah, this is Breakout Poker all over again, just in a different format.

Much of the "success" of these sites rests upon the eventual trading value of the cryptocurrency they created, and that's just not a trivial matter these days. Maybe in 2012 this idea would have been viable. Too many cryptos clogging the market at this point.

The problem is that everyone creating a cryptocurrency these days believes themselves to be an innovative genius.

Update: Took forever but my Mom did eventually get paid.

Update: All beta testers that are not in a jurisdiction for Virtue Poker (which finally launched today) must wait 6 months to claim their VPP tokens.

What kind of bullshit is that? “We’ve determined that it is illegal for you to use our platform, so we are not going to pay you what we owe you for 6 months.”

Update: After 6 month wait period US beta testers were still not paid. Free play to earn version was announced which would allow US players. Beta testers were told they had to complete basic play through (now being forced to gamble with the VPP they earned) to get payout. VPP was removed from account at end of promotion. Some players still have not been paid. Virtue is demanding some players complete KYC for a third time, citing “regulations”. Documents on file now (complaints filed) with the Malta Gaming Authority. Meanwhile price of VPP has gone from a high of 92 cents in September to less than 4 cents today.

Also, Virtue has launched a new promotion and new form of virtual token called $GOLD which supposedly is convertible to dollars at some point. Promises like listing on a top exchange and a celebrity tournament have not been kept.

Note that when the email below was sent out to US beta testers, the current price of VPP made each players stake worth about $7500. At the end of the promotion, when VPPs were removed from players accounts, that same stake was worth $1300. Today it is worth $700.

Note that Dan and Sue Goldman no longer work for Virtue Gaming.

As you saw, I shared this on Twitter and even did an @ to Phil Ivey and suggested he at least cover up to what he was paid by them. (No response from him, obviously, though I suspect he doesn't even manage his own Twitter account.)

I saw someone responding that Virtue Poker is owned by a huge company now? Is that true? If so, why not contact the parent company in some way, and raise issue about this?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

As you saw, I shared this on Twitter and even did an @ to Phil Ivey and suggested he at least cover up to what he was paid by them. (No response from him, obviously, though I suspect he doesn't even manage his own Twitter account.)

I saw someone responding that Virtue Poker is owned by a huge company now? Is that true? If so, why not contact the parent company in some way, and raise issue about this?

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Yes, they are a ConsenSys project and that’s been true from the start. I don’t know exactly how that works, what percentage ConsenSys owns, etc. I have contacted them to try and resolve this. No response yet and there might not be one because I threatened to sue them. No matter how much I ask they will not put me in touch with their lawyer, which I know would just tell them to pay.

Heres a question, if the VPP they added to my account was worth $5500 when they added it and $1300 when they took it out, how much should I be demanding they pay me? Up until now I’ve been asking for $1300 but because this has been such a hassle and this was a contract that they breached multiple times, I am asking for the $5500 now. Of course I would have sold it if I would have been able to withdraw it when it was worth $5500 but was unable to. Also, is that theft if they just took the VPP from my account and did not compensate me?

We now have a dispute filed with eCOGRA and a mediator assigned to the case. Looks like it will be at least a couple weeks until this is resolved.