Dude flips over opponent's hand before it's over while on live stream at Texas Card House

Yay... another Texas poker thread.

There are 4 Texas Card House locations. Like all Texas poker, there is no rake, and they function without regulation, kind of like a home game with an hourly charge.

They have a streamed poker game called "TCH Live", and a weird hand went down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4y-zCg-p-w


The Asian guy in the hand, Josh, ran an all-in bluff on the river from out of position, with a backdoor flush possible. His opponent hit the 9-high backdoor flush, but didn't snap call because the amount bet was so much. He had to think about it.

After some talk back and forth, Josh oddly started mentioning the possibility of each showing one card. Of course, this was a stupid offer in the first place, because the lack of heart in his hand would rule out the flush, and would make a lot more hands call him -- something he did NOT want!

Somehow Josh felt that his opponent agreed, and then just grabbed one of the cards and turned it over. The opponent understandably called for the floor, and demanded to be able to turn over one of Josh's cards. Josh obviously didn't want that, and once the non-heart would have been shown, it would have been an easy snap call.

Well, that's what happened, Josh was called, and his opponent won thousands off of him.


Josh then showed up in the YouTube comments section to apologize for the whole mess:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Josh

Hi! I am Josh, the goofball in the video. I apologize for the horrible mistake I made here, not only to my opponent but to the players who respect and love this game. I should never flip my opponent's card, whether I have finished my action or not. There are just no excuses for that kind of behavior on a poker table. But I was not trying to pull back what I had agreed on the table. I had never agreed to show my cards. Instead, I said, "If you show me your hands, I might consider showing one of mine," and the other players on the table had backed up what I said when the floor came. (I could hear that clearly in the original video, but this part has been muted in this edited version). Everything happened quickly, and I stupidly believed that my opponent agreed to what I was saying and let me flip his card. There was some miscommunication between us — as you guys could tell, English is not my first language — and I was pretty nervous because I was bluffing.

Again, I'm not trying to make any excuse for this horrible mistake I made — but I would like to emphasize that I have completed my actions already. And it was not my intention to take any advantage of my opponent.

And I wasn’t trying to deny that I flipped his card when the floor came — I was trying to say that “I didn’t flip his card without his permission”.

On top of all of these, I might be the worst player in porker history. I should keep my mouth shut and never touch my opponent's cards. He was about to fold.

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His opponent took some heat from a YouTube commenter, however, feeling that there was angling going on, especially because Josh was already all-in and couldn't use any information he gained, whereas the opponent could. It was also noted that the opponent let Josh mess with his cards and choose which one to flip over, prior to it happening:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Illiturit1

It's pretty clear Josh was given permission to flip over one card, and if he did indeed say he "might" turn a card over depending on what he sees, then the only douchebag in this video is the scarf-indoors guy. He's the only one who's gaining any actual information, considering Josh was already all-in.

So, for the scarf-indoors guy, who goes by the lame name JDogg, to try and claim a $3500 pot risk-free or to get to see one of Josh's card is a tool move and for him to demand it is even more telling. The fact that Josh no longer wanted to show a card after seeing a heart is a tell, snap-call and move on. But, instead scarf-boy starts claiming "he can't just flip over one of my cards" when he clearly took off his card protector and spread them so Josh could pick one and then manipulates a free look at one of his opponent's cards, hence an easy call for the pot, because he's JDouche, the angleshooter who wears scarves indoors.

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What is your opinion?

Bad move, obviously, to be touching an opponents card(s). I think most people who have played even once or twice would know this. Also, the indoor scarf IS obnoxious.

My strategy has always been to fly under the radar at the table, play a few hours, and hopefully cash out with an extra rack. The only time I will go off on another player is when they try to touch my cards. I would have gone all Hong Kong Fuey on him. That kid would have had a sprained wrist for to weeks.

The crazy thing to me was the floor had it right to begin with. It is a situation in which you punish the player after the hand. 1 round penalty or at the harshest you consider it a rack up and you're gone offense. There's also a little bit of the "A player must protect his own hand" rule in effect here.

Yes asian broke the rules. However nothing he did effects the outcome of the hand. Allowing the other player to flip a card with having action pending is a HUGE no no. However the all in Asian player had no further action to make.

Touching another player's cards during or after a hand is grounds for an ass beating.

Obviously you should never touch another players cards or chips. But this is an interesting case as nitty scarf douche angle shooter is the one taking advantage and gaining as no action was left on the drunk. Scarf douche should call sooner and not nit roll and this would never have happened. Also he clearly wanted an angle because as soon as anyone got near touching my cards when playing live I would say something right then. It's pretty simple to always keep your cards under a chip near you until you are ready to show or muck. Not sure why so many players can't seem to do this.

I'd like to hear an experienced floor's take on what should happen here. Protecting players money is most important so I would rule that Josh gets some kind of temp ban or time out and that since the action ends on scarf douche he needs to decide what to do and the hand is still live. When scarf douche flips his opponents card scarf douches hand should be dead. If scarf douche wants Josh's hand dead that might be ok but he would only lose whats in the pot then and not the all in bet.

And these texas games are redic, I have to get back to Austin soon for a visit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matos

Obviously you should never touch another players cards or chips. But this is an interesting case as nitty scarf douche angle shooter is the one taking advantage and gaining as no action was left on the drunk. Scarf douche should call sooner and not nit roll and this would never have happened. Also he clearly wanted an angle because as soon as anyone got near touching my cards when playing live I would say something right then. It's pretty simple to always keep your cards under a chip near you until you are ready to show or muck. Not sure why so many players can't seem to do this.

I'd like to hear an experienced floor's take on what should happen here. Protecting players money is most important so I would rule that Josh gets some kind of temp ban or time out and that since the action ends on scarf douche he needs to decide what to do and the hand is still live. When scarf douche flips his opponents card scarf douches hand should be dead. If scarf douche wants Josh's hand dead that might be ok but he would only lose whats in the pot then and not the all in bet.

And these texas games are redic, I have to get back to Austin soon for a visit.

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I spent half my adult life putting in poker rooms, establishing policies & procedures, managing day to day operations, and working the floor.
I would have explained to the gentleman that he is correct he absolutely should not have had his cards turned over but it is also his responsibility to protect his hand. As the player was already all in there was no information to be gained by him doing what he did so I will deal with him after the hand. What I can't decide is if what he did was obnoxious enough to warrant "Setting out a round" or "rack up you're done for the night". Keep in mind the floor person didn't see this go down live like we did, he was called over after.

You are also absolutely right that the guy tried to play this as an angle. When he reached over to grab his cards he made no effort to keep him from turning over his hand.

In all my years of poker playing I've never heard "protect your hand" to mean physically preventing someone from reaching over and flipping it over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

In all my years of poker playing I've never heard "protect your hand" to mean physically preventing someone from reaching over and flipping it over.

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Just because the dealer taking your cards is the most common instance where this applies doesn't make it the only instance. There's not a "opposing player grabs my cards" section in any rule book so there's some thought that has to be applied here. You want to kick that guy out for doing it I'm completely OK with it. I was kind of proud of the guy when he said I'll deal with him after the hand, it's your action. Then when he caved to the "He shows me 1 card or his hand is dead" it was definitely an eye roll hard to watch moment.