Terrence Chan in Twitter fight with Mike "Timex" McDonald over Pokershares bet

https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...43663934124035

https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...43668447121410

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https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...37011459195090

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https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...43705201893376

https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...43706363703297

Chinamaniac's resposne:

https://twitter.com/chinamaniac/stat...69896684265481

https://twitter.com/chinamaniac/stat...98285965152256




Dan Colman's response, which Mike McDonald then answered:

https://twitter.com/MikeMcDonald89/s...62667935412225



Mike added this, in response to Melissa Burr's take:

https://twitter.com/MikeMcDonald89/s...91283234758658

Cliffs:

- Landon Tice and Bill Perkins have a 200-400 NL heads up match coming up, with 20k hands, and where Perkins gets spotted 720k (9BB/100)

- Terrence Chan attempted to bet on this match on Mike McDonald's "Pokershares" site, regarding "who will win the heads up challenge". The bet does not mention the 720k Perkins gets back, as part of the terms of the match. The bet is ambiguous, and Chan takes it to mean that it's simply a -109 bet that Tice wins more money than Perkins.

- Pokershares support sends a quick e-mail to Chan indicating clarification, that Tice needs to win by more than 720k for Terrence's bet to win. Terrence cries foul and claims that wasn't stated.

- McDonald contacts Chan directly, without prompting, and starts off with, "are you dumb?", insisting that Chan should have known when he placed the bet that the 720k was part of it.

- The two argue back and forth. Chan accuses McDonald of not honoring his site's bets, even when the amount (780 euro) is relatively small. McDonald is insistent that the bet is about winning the match, not who finishes ahead in heads-up money, and that the 720k is part of the match. McDonald is also angry that Chan is trying to angle him, given that they've been friends for a long time.


So who is right?

This one isn't easy, but I'm actually more on McDonald's side here. The HU challenge between Perkins and Tice clearly states that 9BB/100 is part of it, even if the language on Pokershares is part of it. Clearly the winner of that challenge is the one who is ahead AFTER the 720k is deducted.

Furthermore, even if Chan believes he's right, it's still kinda shitty to take advantage of what he believes was a line-setting mistake by his friend's company. I didn't like how Terrence seemed to be saying that he would "play the fuck out of a +EV blackjack game" at a Steve Wynn owned property, even if Wynn were his personal friend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCR

Put me down for Timex should have ate it and fixed bet terms, but that Chan didn’t just fire max without knowing.

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I am starting to go this way, as well.

China did bring up a good point that people may bet on this without knowing anything about the terms of the Tice/Perkins challenge. They may simply know that Tice is a pro and Perkins is a rec, and bet on Tice. Then they'll get the bad news afterwards, which isn't fair.

While Pokershares clearly caught the mistake and clarified (and gave bettors the opportunity to cancel it), what if the person wasn't around to get the e-mail? Seems like Pokershares should just eat smallish bets on this, due to the ambiguity, and then fix it.

However, Terrence 100% was angling here, and if he has any kind of relationship with McDonald, that's not a good look.

On the flip side, LOL at Timex denying in chat that it was a mistake. Clearly it was, or they wouldn't have panicked and send a clarification by e-mail so quickly.

Put me down for Timex should have ate it and fixed bet terms, but that Chan didn’t just fire max without knowing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCR

Put me down for Timex should have ate it and fixed bet terms, but that Chan didn’t just fire max without knowing.

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I am starting to go this way, as well.

China did bring up a good point that people may bet on this without knowing anything about the terms of the Tice/Perkins challenge. They may simply know that Tice is a pro and Perkins is a rec, and bet on Tice. Then they'll get the bad news afterwards, which isn't fair.

While Pokershares clearly caught the mistake and clarified (and gave bettors the opportunity to cancel it), what if the person wasn't around to get the e-mail? Seems like Pokershares should just eat smallish bets on this, due to the ambiguity, and then fix it.

However, Terrence 100% was angling here, and if he has any kind of relationship with McDonald, that's not a good look.

On the flip side, LOL at Timex denying in chat that it was a mistake. Clearly it was, or they wouldn't have panicked and clarified it in e-mail so quickly.

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Ya, the I fired the max and then fired the max again a few more times wasn’t believable. I moved my post to keep flow of thread better.

This whole thing kinda brings up the ethics of taking advantage of a mistake or oversight in gambling.

Casinos are cold corporations set up to take your money. They have all kinds of mechanisms in place to make that happen, many of them subtle (no clocks and no windows to keep you from realizing how much time you're spending there, serving free drinks to inhibit your decision-making, etc). When I walk into a casino, I'm fully aware they don't care about my well-being, and would like to take every penny from me if possible. Therefore, if I can find a mistake in their offerings which makes it +EV on my side, I'm going to take that shot. I don't owe them exclusive play at -EV games, just like they don't owe me any personal concern about my financial well-being (aside from the very weak responsible gaming measures, required by law). It's a business transaction either way, and I see it as a competition that I will seek to win in any way except cheating.

However, I feel that gambling against friends is a different story. For example, let's say a friend said to me, "Hey, I heard you like blackjack. You know what would be fun? How about I act as the dealer and you the player, and we play some blackjack for real money?" I'd be a dick if I did this without first warning him that I can count cards, and that I'd be +EV against him.

I don't know why Terrence doesn't see that it looks like he was trying to take advantage of his friend's company's mistaken lines, and he shouldn't have been doing that.

Terms of a bet have to be super clear or someone will always try to wriggle out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Cliffs:

- Landon Tice and Bill Perkins have a 200-400 NL heads up match coming up, with 20k hands, and where Perkins gets spotted 720k (9BB/100)

- Terrence Chan attempted to bet on this match on Mike McDonald's "Pokershares" site, regarding "who will win the heads up challenge". The bet does not mention the 720k Perkins gets back, as part of the terms of the match. The bet is ambiguous, and Chan takes it to mean that it's simply a -109 bet that Tice wins more money than Perkins.

- Pokershares support sends a quick e-mail to Chan indicating clarification, that Tice needs to win by more than 720k for Terrence's bet to win. Terrence cries foul and claims that wasn't stated.

- McDonald contacts Chan directly, without prompting, and starts off with, "are you dumb?", insisting that Chan should have known when he placed the bet that the 720k was part of it.

- The two argue back and forth. Chan accuses McDonald of not honoring his site's bets, even when the amount (780 euro) is relatively small. McDonald is insistent that the bet is about winning the match, not who finishes ahead in heads-up money, and that the 720k is part of the match. McDonald is also angry that Chan is trying to angle him, given that they've been friends for a long time.


So who is right?

This one isn't easy, but I'm actually more on McDonald's side here. The HU challenge between Perkins and Tice clearly states that 9BB/100 is part of it, even if the language on Pokershares is part of it. Clearly the winner of that challenge is the one who is ahead AFTER the 720k is deducted.

Furthermore, even if Chan believes he's right, it's still kinda shitty to take advantage of what he believes was a line-setting mistake by his friend's company. I didn't like how Terrence seemed to be saying that he would "play the fuck out of a +EV blackjack game" at a Steve Wynn owned property, even if Wynn were his personal friend.

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What about the people out there that just fired on it without knowing that Perkins is the dog? People fire on shit all the time just for the action. Of course this doesn't include Terrence but there could be others just gambling.

Stay tuned for the MacDonald vs Chan HU for rollz coming to a twitch channel near you soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IamGreek

Stay tuned for the MacDonald vs Chan HU for rollz coming to a twitch channel near you soon.

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Half HUNL half MMA?

China lookin' slim and trim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe

China lookin' slim and trim.

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I noticed that. Glad to see he turned his weight loss bet into a lifestyle change. Looks great.

Well, here we go...

Terrence Chan, a mild-mannered fellow who hasn't been directly part of drama in almost 15 years (the last time being his beef with Joy Miller in 2007, when he was in the right), has cracked under the pressure and written one of those "leaving to go spend time with family" posts:

https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...09843555401729

https://twitter.com/tchanpoker/statu...09847284060162



I should have posted a prediction that this would happen, because I had a feeling it would go that way. Despite doing MMA fighting as a hobby, Terrence doesn't like confrontation. I had a feeling this was going to quickly be too much for him, as it was clear right away that he would take some sharp criticism for his actions. He just doesn't have the personality type to deal well with a lot of social media blowback.


However, Mike McDonald still has some growing up to do. Despite being a very sharp and smart guy, McDonald has demonstrated on several occasions that he's both immature and a little bit naive about how the world works.

McDonald decided to needle him about the above tweet, and went as far to call Terrence a "liar/scammer", which is totally unfair and inaccurate.

https://twitter.com/MikeMcDonald89/s...66850291343364


McDonald is getting killed in the comments section, as he seems blind to his own culpability in the situation, and is sanctimoniously acting like he was a scam victim.

Mike should just eat the $1k bet to look like he cares about customer service and then guilt-trip the hell out of Terrance in front of everyone to make him look bad. Terrance wouldn’t smash max bet button if he didn’t know.

Mike comes off as annoying, but I did enjoy his comment along the lines of “If you needed some money, you just had to ask”.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrWallace

Mike should just eat the $1k bet to look like he cares about customer service and then guilt-trip the hell out of Terrance in front of everyone to make him look bad. Terrance wouldn’t smash max bet button if he didn’t know.

Mike comes off as annoying, but I did enjoy his comment along the lines of “If you needed some money, you just had to ask”.

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:this

That would have actually been the best approach. Admit his company made a mistake and pay it out, but publicly lament that his friend Terrence would try to angle him like this. He would've gotten a lot more positive response that way, and Terrence would have looked like an asshole. Of course, then Terrence wouldn't have brought it out to Twitter in the first place, so Mike would've had to do this himself.

The problem here was that Mike acted sanctimonious the entire time that the whole thing wasn't an error, that Terrence was a scammer, and that Terrence was stupid. Plus he wouldn't book the bet as Terrence thought it was. Not a good look.

The lesson here is if somebody is a customer or patron of your business, they are not your friend. Especially if you run a gambling based business. Nearly 100% of the time the person will take advantage of you and your mistakes if it is in their financial interest. Chances are, if you give them pushback about that, they will threaten to, or will, trash you publicly and present themselves as an innocent victim. That life folks!

Obviously this weirdo Chan shot an angle, who cares it’s gambling, what’s annoying is how he acted on Twitter afterwards. The poker “world” is so strange with this nonsense. I found his self imposed Twitter ban post the most bizarre. Imagine the shame you would feel if your father posted something like that to social media?

Mike handled it poorly, but Chan also attacked his business and I guess reputation so it’s his right to go back at him hard if he wants. No big deal! It’s not like he is running a local sandwich shop or something, where you’d want to handle customer service issues a little more delicately.

All I have to say is Terrance Chan is lucky he didn’t pull a stunt like this on Tony from 5Dimes! 0 tolerance policy!