Jeff Gross and VPN

Hey, I was listening to last weeks podcast and I was very interested in the discussion regarding VPNS and Jeff Gross ALLEGED use.
So, I wanted to perform my own experiment with a VPN from Connecticut and attempt it with the Legal Regulated Poker sites that are in Nevada, NJ, and PA.
I felt my odds were slim but I was bored for obvious reasons. So, the beginning of last week I researched the best products and advise I could find on line and made my attempt last Friday. Obviously, I was denied by WSOP NV, WSOP NJ, and PSTARS NJ with no penalties from the sites. Most likely, I did not do enough homework on this subject or mostly likely misunderstood the podcast discussion regarding Jeff Gross.

Thoughts on everything listed above greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Proverbs13.3

Hey, I was listening to last weeks podcast and I was very interested in the discussion regarding VPNS and Jeff Gross ALLEGED use.
So, I wanted to perform my own experiment with a VPN from Connecticut and attempt it with the Legal Regulated Poker sites that are in Nevada, NJ, and PA.
I felt my odds were slim but I was bored for obvious reasons. So, the beginning of last week I researched the best products and advise I could find on line and made my attempt last Friday. Obviously, I was denied by WSOP NV, WSOP NJ, and PSTARS NJ with no penalties from the sites. Most likely, I did not do enough homework on this subject or mostly likely misunderstood the podcast discussion regarding Jeff Gross.

Thoughts on everything listed above greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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All VPNs are not created equal. I think it’s not so much about the VPN it’s more of a “wink wink” arrangement that Party is giving to Gross as he is a sponsored pro and speculation is he is playing from the states. I think Traderusky was mainly blowing off steam about it being unfair while we have much less options.

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Originally Posted by JeffDime

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Originally Posted by Proverbs13.3

Hey, I was listening to last weeks podcast and I was very interested in the discussion regarding VPNS and Jeff Gross ALLEGED use.
So, I wanted to perform my own experiment with a VPN from Connecticut and attempt it with the Legal Regulated Poker sites that are in Nevada, NJ, and PA.
I felt my odds were slim but I was bored for obvious reasons. So, the beginning of last week I researched the best products and advise I could find on line and made my attempt last Friday. Obviously, I was denied by WSOP NV, WSOP NJ, and PSTARS NJ with no penalties from the sites. Most likely, I did not do enough homework on this subject or mostly likely misunderstood the podcast discussion regarding Jeff Gross.

Thoughts on everything listed above greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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All VPNs are not created equal. I think it’s not so much about the VPN it’s more of a “wink wink” arrangement that Party is giving to Gross as he is a sponsored pro and speculation is he is playing from the states. I think Traderusky was mainly blowing off steam about it being unfair while we have much less options.

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It was actually Vintage One who was concerned about Gross, not Tradershky. But close enough.

You're correct about the rest. It's alleged by Vintage One that Gross is VPNing with Party's permission, and that it's not fair to everyone else.

Just wondering. When you tried to VPN into WSOP.com, did you VPN with an IP that's supposed to be based where they're located?

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Originally Posted by Proverbs13.3

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

It was actually Vintage One who was concerned about Gross, not Tradershky. But close enough.

You're correct about the rest. It's alleged by Vintage One that Gross is VPNing with Party's permission, and that it's not fair to everyone else.

Just wondering. When you tried to VPN into WSOP.com, did you VPN with an IP that's supposed to be based where they're located?

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I had a VPN in Las Vegas, Nevada. So, when I downloaded the WSOP NV software, the geolocation software detected I was on the west coast, which was awesome.However, when I logged in, I received this message: "We have detected that you are accessing the internet through a proxy, VPN or other service which has the ability to misrepresent the geographic location of a computer. While your use of this service may be inadvertent, we are not able to confirm your location legal requirement for online wagering."

I had a thought, I own a dedicated private IP address in New York thru a VPN software company. What if I changed the IP address or purchased one for a private dedicated Las Vegas IP address, could that work?. If anyone has any advise it would be greatly appreciated because it would help me understand if and how a site can allow one person they choose to play on their site regardless of location.

I can't speak for NV or PA, but one VPN won't get you past any NJ site. It's not just the IP address. You need to have multiple wifi signals and they use some sort proprietary geo location software. So you would need to somehow reverse engineer the black boxed software and have multiple routers without raising any red flags. You'd also have to do all this without any black listed software.

The NJDGE monitors every sites traffic and randomly tests each sites diligence. Even a single small bet accepted that isn't confirmed in NJ (not confirmed outside of NJ, just not confirmed within NJ) could result in a 5 figure fine.

tldr; It's not worth it for NJ players.

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Originally Posted by duped_samaritan

I can't speak for NV or PA, but one VPN won't get you past any NJ site. It's not just the IP address. You need to have multiple wifi signals and they use some sort proprietary geo location software. So you would need to somehow reverse engineer the black boxed software and have multiple routers without raising any red flags. You'd also have to do all this without any black listed software.

The NJDGE monitors every sites traffic and randomly tests each sites diligence. Even a single small bet accepted that isn't confirmed in NJ (not confirmed outside of NJ, just not confirmed within NJ) could result in a 5 figure fine.

tldr; It's not worth it for NJ players.

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I don't know what you mean by "multiple wifi signals". You don't need wifi at all to play on WSOP NV or NJ.

Using a VPN isn't a good idea because they have likely already discovered and blacklisted most VPN IPs. In fact, they may be doing it in opposite fashion -- whitelisting known good IPs which resolve back to known internet providers or in-state cell phone carriers, and calling everything else a "VPN" which resolves to supposedly being in-state.

If you connected through a computer remotely at a friend's house who is in-state, it should probably work. It's possible they look for screen sharing software like Teamviewer, but it's also possible they don't.

I agree with duped that it's probably not worth it, though. You will get your money confiscated if caught, and possibly banned from all Caesars properties.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by duped_samaritan

I can't speak for NV or PA, but one VPN won't get you past any NJ site. It's not just the IP address. You need to have multiple wifi signals and they use some sort proprietary geo location software. So you would need to somehow reverse engineer the black boxed software and have multiple routers without raising any red flags. You'd also have to do all this without any black listed software.

The NJDGE monitors every sites traffic and randomly tests each sites diligence. Even a single small bet accepted that isn't confirmed in NJ (not confirmed outside of NJ, just not confirmed within NJ) could result in a 5 figure fine.

tldr; It's not worth it for NJ players.

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I don't know what you mean by "multiple wifi signals". You don't need wifi at all to play on WSOP NV or NJ.

Using a VPN isn't a good idea because they have likely already discovered and blacklisted most VPN IPs. In fact, they may be doing it in opposite fashion -- whitelisting known good IPs which resolve back to known internet providers or in-state cell phone carriers, and calling everything else a "VPN" which resolves to supposedly being in-state.

If you connected through a computer remotely at a friend's house who is in-state, it should probably work. It's possible they look for screen sharing software like Teamviewer, but it's also possible they don't.

I agree with duped that it's probably not worth it, though. You will get your money confiscated if caught, and possibly banned from all Caesars properties.

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Hey all who replied,

Thanks for the advise. I am lucky that I live 60 miles from a New Jersey Highway rest area with a starbucks. Ill just multi table in my car and use there free wifi for access.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't know what you mean by "multiple wifi signals". You don't need wifi at all to play on WSOP NV or NJ.

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In NJ you don't need to be connected to wifi, but you need to have wifi enabled and be within range of more than one signal. I am 100% certain of this.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

If you connected through a computer remotely at a friend's house who is in-state, it should probably work. It's possible they look for screen sharing software like Teamviewer, but it's also possible they don't.

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They definitely actively check for remote desktop software. If you open it while playing, you will immediately be disconnected. Same goes for VPN software.

Software developer here that's been playing on NJ sites since literally the first day of soft opening.

I can't say it's impossible, but there's a nearly 0% chance any sort of virtual machine would work.

If there were a way to get around the geo location checks I'd know about it so unless something major has changed in the past couple weeks (it hasn't) my comments 100% accurate.

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Originally Posted by duped_samaritan

Software developer here that's been playing on NJ sites since literally the first day of soft opening.

I can't say it's impossible, but there's a nearly 0% chance any sort of virtual machine would work.

If there were a way to get around the geo location checks I'd know about it so unless something major has changed in the past couple weeks (it hasn't) my comments 100% accurate.

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Hey,

Your absolutely CORRECT. I have made 8 trips to NJ from CT to play on PSTARS and WSOP and have used my phone with no issue.
When I used my phone the geo locator finds me and it confirms my location. When I use my laptop off my phone hotspot I sometime get kicked off due to Geolocator having issues finding my IP address. So, I researched free wifi in NJ and found out that NJ was enabling people the opportunity to use their free WIFI during the pandemic. That went great and I played 8 sessions with no issues. Regarding VPN, as a experiment I purchased TWO VPN's with my own PERSONAL IP address's NOT Shared with anyone in NJ and Nevada, I WAS kicked off immediately due to the fact the program knew I was using a VPN even though it recognized I was apparently in those two states. So, I cannot understand these trolls comments.

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Originally Posted by duped_samaritan

They definitely actively check for remote desktop software. If you open it while playing, you will immediately be disconnected. Same goes for VPN software.

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As a software developer can you explain how the poker software running from inside a virtual machine sandbox could check for remote desktop or VPN software on its host machine?

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Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick

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Originally Posted by duped_samaritan

They definitely actively check for remote desktop software. If you open it while playing, you will immediately be disconnected. Same goes for VPN software.

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As a software developer can you explain how the poker software running from inside a virtual machine sandbox could check for remote desktop or VPN software on its host machine?

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The geolocation software is separate from the poker software.
I'm not an expert in this stuff but If an OS is running on a virtual machine you should be able to figure it out by checking the hardware specs and registry. I think there's also a way to know whether a processor is physical or virtual.

Of course everything can be spoofed with enough technical knowledge, but unless you have insider information on precisely what the GS is looking for it would require a lot of trial and error. You will get a permaban after a couple warnings for trying to place a wager without being geolocated or while running prohibited software, so you'd need to have a lot of accounts to burn and each of them would have to pass the ID verification (SSN, DOB and recent address need to match). Even if you got something to work, I'd still be concerned that down the road somebody would take a closer look or there would be an update that got you busted.

I don't understand why you guys think you know how these things work when it's obvious you have little or no experience playing in NJ. Telling me that I'm wrong about wifi being required is especially laughable.