Druff! Stop being a Trumptard about mail-in voting!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

"No evidence of fraud from mail-in voting" is such a misleading statement, and you are smart enough to know that, Mumbles.

There are certain crimes where little-to-no evidence is left behind, and voter fraud is one of them, unless there are highly organized efforts to do it.

If I go through the trash of Ken Scalir's large apartment complex on the day ballots are received in the mail, there will be a TON of them in there. Some will be from people who don't feel like voting, and others will be ballots for former residents whose information is still on the local voter rolls.

I could take all of these ballots, mark Trump, and send them all in.

There would be zero evidence that this happened, and even if it was known that it occurred, zero ability to catch who did it.

This does not require any level of sophistication or organization. You see ballots in the trash. You hate Trump (or, alternatively, hate Biden). You grab those ballots, fill them in, and mail them. Easy.

It's even easier to fill out ballots for relatives who have expressed no desire to vote. Maybe your senile father is living out his final days with you. Maybe your apathetic son registered at your house when he turned 18 many years ago, and he has told you for years that he thinks voting is a waste of time. Maybe you have family members who have no desire to vote, but are fine with you taking their ballot and doing what they want with it. Maybe the previous residents of your home or apartment keep getting ballots mailed to you.

You can't deny that this will be super easy to do, and people will do it. There is no way to tell how many will do it, but it will happen, and it's incredibly naive to say that it will be an inconsequential number.

Besides, didn't we have a Presidential election in 2000 which came down to about 500 votes in Florida?

The "no evidence of mail-in voter fraud" is such a bullshit Democratic talking point, because they perceive this scheme will benefit them, so they pretend the gaping security hole isn't an issue.

Do you understand how security works, Mumbles? Security isn't about closing vulnerabilities after you've been compromised. It's about closing them AFTER you've been compromised.

Just because a few states have been stupidly doing mail-in voting doesn't mean that it's the right thing for everyone else to do.

---

Druff, you can be a conservative and that's cool. I disagree with you but you have carefully considered and well-reasoned opinions. This on the other hand is beneath you. This is so thoroughly dishonest you should be embarrassed.

When a mail-in ballot is counted, the voter's signature on the ballot is matched to the signature on file. If it doesn't sufficiently match, what happens depends on the state. Some states allow the voter to correct the problem with an affidavit or appearing in person with ID. Some states just toss the ballot. Depending on the state 3-7% of mail-in ballots are invalidated due to insufficiently matching signature. That is a far bigger problem than the potential for fraud which is tiny. People don't sign identically every time, so almost 100% of those discarded ballots are real and they are discarded anyway. What's the chance that a ballot slips through with a forged signature? You'd have to be an expert forger.

It's also almost impossible to vote twice as the same person due to the safeguards in place. They record who has a mail-in ballot and if the voter tries to vote in person either they have to surrender the mail-in ballot, or the mail-in ballot is discarded after it is checked against the system's record of who voted in person. The latter happens in states where mail-in ballots are not counted until the polls close.

There are very stiff penalties for voting fraud. In your scenario, a person who collected a bunch of unused mail-in ballots and wants to cast them all:
1. Must forge the signature of the voter whose ballot it is, well enough to withstand scrutiny
2. Must hope that voter doesn't (or didn't) vote in person
3. Must be willing to risk going to prison in exchange for casting a handful of extra votes.

This is so absurd, and you know it is absurd. You should be embarrassed for even saying it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

First off, you white trash TDS clown, stop repeating dumb Jewdonk insults.

Second, I just said that mail in voter fraud is nearly impossible to detect or prove due to the very nature of it.

Either you suck at reading comprehension, or you are the moron everyone here accuses you of being.

The scenarios I suggested will occur are extremely likely, and do not require any degree of planning or organization.

---

So are unicorns, but they're everywhere. Everywhere, I tell you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wrenchjockey

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/24/91663...ded-pa-ballots


Well that about wraps it up for no evidence of fraud.

---

It wraps it up for people who don't bother to check whether it's true or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

"No evidence of fraud from mail-in voting" is such a misleading statement, and you are smart enough to know that, Mumbles.

There are certain crimes where little-to-no evidence is left behind, and voter fraud is one of them, unless there are highly organized efforts to do it.

If I go through the trash of Ken Scalir's large apartment complex on the day ballots are received in the mail, there will be a TON of them in there. Some will be from people who don't feel like voting, and others will be ballots for former residents whose information is still on the local voter rolls.

I could take all of these ballots, mark Trump, and send them all in.

There would be zero evidence that this happened, and even if it was known that it occurred, zero ability to catch who did it.

This does not require any level of sophistication or organization. You see ballots in the trash. You hate Trump (or, alternatively, hate Biden). You grab those ballots, fill them in, and mail them. Easy.

It's even easier to fill out ballots for relatives who have expressed no desire to vote. Maybe your senile father is living out his final days with you. Maybe your apathetic son registered at your house when he turned 18 many years ago, and he has told you for years that he thinks voting is a waste of time. Maybe you have family members who have no desire to vote, but are fine with you taking their ballot and doing what they want with it. Maybe the previous residents of your home or apartment keep getting ballots mailed to you.

You can't deny that this will be super easy to do, and people will do it. There is no way to tell how many will do it, but it will happen, and it's incredibly naive to say that it will be an inconsequential number.

Besides, didn't we have a Presidential election in 2000 which came down to about 500 votes in Florida?

The "no evidence of mail-in voter fraud" is such a bullshit Democratic talking point, because they perceive this scheme will benefit them, so they pretend the gaping security hole isn't an issue.

Do you understand how security works, Mumbles? Security isn't about closing vulnerabilities after you've been compromised. It's about closing them AFTER you've been compromised.

Just because a few states have been stupidly doing mail-in voting doesn't mean that it's the right thing for everyone else to do.

---

Druff, you can be a conservative and that's cool. I disagree with you but you have carefully considered and well-reasoned opinions. This on the other hand is beneath you. This is so thoroughly dishonest you should be embarrassed.

When a mail-in ballot is counted, the voter's signature on the ballot is matched to the signature on file. If it doesn't sufficiently match, what happens depends on the state. Some states allow the voter to correct the problem with an affidavit or appearing in person with ID. Some states just toss the ballot. Depending on the state 3-7% of mail-in ballots are invalidated due to insufficiently matching signature. That is a far bigger problem than the potential for fraud which is tiny. People don't sign identically every time, so almost 100% of those discarded ballots are real and they are discarded anyway. What's the chance that a ballot slips through with a forged signature? You'd have to be an expert forger.

It's also almost impossible to vote twice as the same person due to the safeguards in place. They record who has a mail-in ballot and if the voter tries to vote in person either they have to surrender the mail-in ballot, or the mail-in ballot is discarded after it is checked against the system's record of who voted in person. The latter happens in states where mail-in ballots are not counted until the polls close.

There are very stiff penalties for voting fraud. In your scenario, a person who collected a bunch of unused mail-in ballots and wants to cast them all:
1. Must forge the signature of the voter whose ballot it is, well enough to withstand scrutiny
2. Must hope that voter doesn't (or didn't) vote in person
3. Must be willing to risk going to prison in exchange for casting a handful of extra votes.

This is so absurd, and you know it is absurd. You should be embarrassed for even saying it.

---

Do you realize what you're saying here?

Either fraud is going to run rampant, or they are going to invalidate a ton of valid votes due to signature mismatches for legitimate ballots.

How do you not see that this is a huge problem either way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Do you realize what you're saying here?

Either fraud is going to run rampant, or they are going to invalidate a ton of valid votes due to signature mismatches for legitimate ballots.

How do you not see that this is a huge problem either way?

---

How is 'the amount of fraud will be negligible' not a possibility?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Druff, you can be a conservative and that's cool. I disagree with you but you have carefully considered and well-reasoned opinions. This on the other hand is beneath you. This is so thoroughly dishonest you should be embarrassed.

When a mail-in ballot is counted, the voter's signature on the ballot is matched to the signature on file. If it doesn't sufficiently match, what happens depends on the state. Some states allow the voter to correct the problem with an affidavit or appearing in person with ID. Some states just toss the ballot. Depending on the state 3-7% of mail-in ballots are invalidated due to insufficiently matching signature. That is a far bigger problem than the potential for fraud which is tiny. People don't sign identically every time, so almost 100% of those discarded ballots are real and they are discarded anyway. What's the chance that a ballot slips through with a forged signature? You'd have to be an expert forger.

It's also almost impossible to vote twice as the same person due to the safeguards in place. They record who has a mail-in ballot and if the voter tries to vote in person either they have to surrender the mail-in ballot, or the mail-in ballot is discarded after it is checked against the system's record of who voted in person. The latter happens in states where mail-in ballots are not counted until the polls close.

There are very stiff penalties for voting fraud. In your scenario, a person who collected a bunch of unused mail-in ballots and wants to cast them all:
1. Must forge the signature of the voter whose ballot it is, well enough to withstand scrutiny
2. Must hope that voter doesn't (or didn't) vote in person
3. Must be willing to risk going to prison in exchange for casting a handful of extra votes.

This is so absurd, and you know it is absurd. You should be embarrassed for even saying it.

---

Do you realize what you're saying here?

Either fraud is going to run rampant, or they are going to invalidate a ton of valid votes due to signature mismatches for legitimate ballots.

How do you not see that this is a huge problem either way?

---

Those aren't the only two choices. You left out the truth, which is that fraud is nearly non-existent.

I don't like the idea of valid ballots being invalidated, but that's a lot better than not allowing mail-in voting at all. Far more people will be prevented from voting if they aren't able to vote by mail, especially this year.

Several states have all mail-in elections and they're doing fine.

The real reason for the fake "mail-in ballot fraud" narrative: to disenfranchise Democrats. That is the only reason. Republicans have been trying this since the rise of the New Right in the Reagan era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

And it continues today, out of their own mouths (requires subscription): https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...e11_story.html

Your bullshit isn't going to work this year. People are going to vote whether you like it or not.

Trump has gone to court to stop or limit ballot drop-boxes, and has sued to stop Democratic-aligned groups from offering their own ballot drop boxes.

The California Republican party is doing the exact same thing in areas where they think they're likely to collect Republican ballots. When the Cal AG told them to stop as per state law, the Republicans told him to go fuck himself in so many words.

Rank hypocrisy. Once again, there is no fraud, it's all about disenfranchising people who are likely to vote for the Democrats. That is the only reason.

Fuck disenfranchsing scumbags. You can all drink bleach.

Druff,

Are you still trying to peddle the bullshit narrative that mail-in ballots are likely to result in material levels of voter fraud in this election? Because the FBI director, Christopher Wray, as well as ALL of the leading state officials responsible for the integrity of the elections say otherwise.

https://youtu.be/uT9k1QbUo6M

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dmndkutr

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

---

Don't worry, soon we will be treated to an explanation of why it's fine for him to do it but not fine for it to be generally available to everyone. Expect it to include an accusation that Democrats are hypocrites and/or fraudsters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dmndkutr

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

---

He shouldn't, given his pre existing conditions of being corpulent, old, and having LPR on top of rolling in with the immune system of a late stage AIDS patient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dmndkutr

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

---

He shouldn't, given his pre existing conditions of being corpulent, old, and having LPR on top of rolling in with the immune system of a late stage AIDS patient.

---

This from the 34-year-old who got permanent lung damage from COVID.

https://i.redd.it/cwkcmv3s8ea31.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Do you realize what you're saying here?

Either fraud is going to run rampant, or they are going to invalidate a ton of valid votes due to signature mismatches for legitimate ballots.

How do you not see that this is a huge problem either way?

---

Those aren't the only two choices. You left out the truth, which is that fraud is nearly non-existent.

I don't like the idea of valid ballots being invalidated, but that's a lot better than not allowing mail-in voting at all. Far more people will be prevented from voting if they aren't able to vote by mail, especially this year.

Several states have all mail-in elections and they're doing fine.

---

I don't understand how you can say fraud is "non-existent" when it's impossible to detect, and impossible to stop unless you also invalidate tons of legitimate votes.

So let me get this straight. Democrats think this is themostimportantelectionofourlife and that Trumpisathreattohumanity, and they are willing to burndownbuildingsandbeatpeopleup during protests. Yet somehow they're not willing to mail in extra ballots which show up at their house?

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

They see Trump as the modern Hitler, and the narrative for a long time for many on the left has been "the ends justify the means" regarding opposing him. He's supposedly so bad that lying, cheating, and committing acts of violence is justified if it will keep him out of office for a second term.

Now suddenly they're all going to fall in line and vote fairly, even though it's super easy to cheat and impossible to get caught?

Come on. That defies common sense.

So basically you're advocating a terrible voting system which either can't detect fraud (lax or no signature verification) or will invalidate a ton of votes (strict signature verification). Either way is a disaster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dmndkutr

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

---

Yes, I mailed in my vote. But I also would have if there wasn't universal mail-in voting. I would have requested an absentee ballot, an option which has been available to me for all 30 years I've been eligible to vote.

I'm not against absentee balloting, as the chance for fraud there is much less, given the extra steps required to acquire ballots. Universal mail-in is a disaster, for reasons I mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dmndkutr

So we know Druff doesn’t leave the house much. He only goes to get groceries loaded in to his car, hiking, and the necessary root canal.

Did Druff mail in his vote?


Survey says .....

---

Yes, I mailed in my vote. But I also would have if there wasn't universal mail-in voting. I would have requested an absentee ballot, an option which has been available to me for all 30 years I've been eligible to vote.

I'm not against absentee balloting, as the chance for fraud there is much less, given the extra steps required to acquire ballots. Universal mail-in is a disaster, for reasons I mentioned.

---

CALLED IT

:glory

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Yes, I mailed in my vote. But I also would have if there wasn't universal mail-in voting. I would have requested an absentee ballot, an option which has been available to me for all 30 years I've been eligible to vote.

I'm not against absentee balloting, as the chance for fraud there is much less, given the extra steps required to acquire ballots. Universal mail-in is a disaster, for reasons I mentioned.

---

CALLED IT

:glory

---

If Druff lived in Texas, he wouldn’t have been issued an absentee ballot based on his requested reason unless he committed voter fraud by lying and saying that he would out of the state when in-person voting is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

CALLED IT

:glory

---

If Druff lived in Texas, he wouldn’t have been issued an absentee ballot based on his requested reason unless he committed voter fraud by lying and saying that he would out of the state when in-person voting is possible.

---

Also true. The rules vary significantly from state to state. Druff, what would you do if you lived in Texas? "I don't want to vote in person to reduce the risk of COVID" is not an acceptable reason to vote absentee in Texas. I'd like to know what you'd do if you lived there.

Needing a reason for absentee balloting is dumb, and I've never supported that.

I'm not sure what I would do if I were in Texas, but that's irrelevant, because I'm not, and I'm not arguing for their system.

I'm arguing against universal mail-in balloting.

Still trying to understand how "studies" can show that undetectable fraud is "nonexistent". What is their method? "If we can't see it, then it's not happening"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Needing a reason for absentee balloting is dumb, and I've never supported that.

I'm not sure what I would do if I were in Texas, but that's irrelevant, because I'm not, and I'm not arguing for their system.

I'm arguing against universal mail-in balloting.

Still trying to understand how "studies" can show that undetectable fraud is "nonexistent". What is their method? "If we can't see it, then it's not happening"?

---

So you are implying that mail-in voting in the 5 states that have had universal mail-in voting before this year — Washington, Oregon, Hawaii, Utah, and Colorado — has allowed rampant undetected voter fraud??? And you do so without a shred of evidence of such voting fraud and contrary to the data collected by The Heritage Foundation??? Wow! You are so fair and unbiased!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...us-states.html