GGNetwork (GGPoker, Natural8, PokerOK, etc) bans players for "bumhunting"

A banned player from the GGNetwork, who temporarily had his money also confiscated for unknown reasons, brought light to an interesting and somewhat disturbing policy of the GGNetwork.

In short, if you sit at a table only when you see 1 or more fish there, you're violating their terms.

https://i.imgur.com/cXjMeJE.png
https://i.imgur.com/NJ3Wiq5.png
https://i.imgur.com/IKDNaQv.png

After receiving this warning, this player claimed he cashed out his $150k bankroll from PokerOK, hadn't received it yet, and redeposited $120k to the flagship site GGPoker.

Before playing a single hand, he claims he got this message:

https://i.imgur.com/KgywcKF.png

Then they confiscated both his 120k deposit and his 150k cashout. He was able to get the 120k deposit back quickly, but the 150k was still stuck. However, there were holes in his story, and I'm guessing he wasn't 100% honest about his situation. He also later claimed he got it resolved.

Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...olved-1764963/

Anyway, this guy's particular situation isn't all that important.

What is important is the fact that GGNetwork is indeed banning these supposed "bumhunters", though it's a soft ban (meaning you get your money, but can't continue playing on the network.)

You might ask what's wrong with banning these predatory players?

Well, there's several things wrong with it.

First off, it's ludicrous to require players not to game select. Game selection is a part of poker. As the old adage goes, if you're the 9th best poker player in the world, and you sit with the best 8, you're the fish in the game. Therefore, it's completely reasonable not to play if you open a table and everyone there is better than you.

Second, sitting only when certain fish sit (which is apparently what this guy was doing) is also fine, as it's again a form of game selection. Additionally, people could be accidentaly bumhunting in certain games, only being willing to play when the table is near full, which may only happen when a fish is present.

If they're really that worried about certain fish attracting sharks sitting just for them, they can go to an anonymous model like on Bovada or Run It Once.

The entire premise is flawed because a person being a "fish" is relative. A winning low-stakes player might be the fish at a high-stakes game. How do they define who a fish is? What if you're not bumhunting, but rather are choosing to play people whose styles you can best handle?

This seems more like a war against winning players. Basically if you are going to win on that site, you need to be willing to churn rake against other regulars when there are no fish around, or you're a gonner.

This is the network Negreanu represents now, by the way.

Lol Dnegs ...

What I find amazing is this. (and before anybody says but in live poker usually you get sat with whomever so there is no way to bumhunt Im calling bullshit). A live card room would never be able to get away with this shit. Dont say it doesnt or cant happen because we all know it does.. You mean there arent phone calls made when somebody like Guy LaLiberte shows up at Bobbys room??? Yeah right.. It may not be easy like it can online, but it sure as hell happens.. The only reasonable solution out of fairness is have a tag/key for tables for newbies where only they are allowed to sit at certain tables and the rest of the site isnt.. If some dumbass is dumb enough to shove a huge bankroll on the table for high stakes and gets crushed thats their own damn fault nobodyelses.. Poker Darwinism at its finest..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ftpjesus

What I find amazing is this. (and before anybody says but in live poker usually you get sat with whomever so there is no way to bumhunt Im calling bullshit). A live card room would never be able to get away with this shit. Dont say it doesnt or cant happen because we all know it does.. You mean there arent phone calls made when somebody like Guy LaLiberte shows up at Bobbys room??? Yeah right.. It may not be easy like it can online, but it sure as hell happens.. The only reasonable solution out of fairness is have a tag/key for tables for newbies where only they are allowed to sit at certain tables and the rest of the site isnt.. If some dumbass is dumb enough to shove a huge bankroll on the table for high stakes and gets crushed thats their own damn fault nobodyelses.. Poker Darwinism at its finest..

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Agree.

The stupid thing is that preventing bumhunting doesn't help the fish survive longer. The fish will lose quickly against a table full of good players no matter what (barring unusually good short-term luck).

The site only hates bumhunting because people learn not to play games unless fish are present, which makes the games go less often, which translates into less rake.

Thus, they want to throw off anyone who isn't willing to play in non-fish lineups.

It's all about the site making money, not giving the fish a better experience, or whatever bullshit they're claiming.

It's like the question I've asked on radio:

"If there's a 6-handed game, with 2 fish, and 4 good players, the best player at the table leaves, who benefits the most?"

Many people would guess the two fish benefit. Nope. The biggest one to benefit is the SECOND best player at the table, as he becomes the best one there, and is most likely to take the lion's share of the money from the two fish, instead of the one guy who was better than him! The two fish are big underdogs in the game as long as everyone else is better, so one of the pros leaving doesn't impact much. It just shifts around who gets the fish money.

The only way you can really help fish is by having other fish sit who are even worse than them.