Johan Guilbert tanks incessantly in hand, gets clock called on him three times

https://twitter.com/SavagePoker/stat...11125998637057


Poker Twitter is very angry about this hand, and now there's a lot more talk about "shot clocks" than ever before. There is some belief that there is abuse of tanking, to the point where it's ruining the game. European players are known to especially be guilty of this, though American players sometimes do it as well.

If you remember, Christoph Vogelsang had a similar controversy during WSOP.

Time to finally implement a shot clock at most tournaments, forcing action on each street after 30 seconds?

Shot clocks with time chips for spots where you really need the time. Thats the way to do it, imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serial Fail

Shot clocks with time chips for spots where you really need the time. Thats the way to do it, imo

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The argument against shot clocks is that they turn off recreational players.

Recs hate being forced into quick decisions. In fact, most people do not call the clock on fish, as they're happy enough to have the fish at the table (even in tournaments) and don't want to antagonize them.

At the same time, the over-tanking Euros are becoming a worse and worse problem, so something has to be done.

The time chips might be a good middle ground solution, and perhaps they could also be limited to usage of one per hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serial Fail

Shot clocks with time chips for spots where you really need the time. Thats the way to do it, imo

---

The argument against shot clocks is that they turn off recreational players.

Recs hate being forced into quick decisions. In fact, most people do not call the clock on fish, as they're happy enough to have the fish at the table (even in tournaments) and don't want to antagonize them.

At the same time, the over-tanking Euros are becoming a worse and worse problem, so something has to be done.

The time chips might be a good middle ground solution, and perhaps they could also be limited to usage of one per hand.

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My feeling is simple if people want to bitch about players taking too much time then screw it. Just play tournaments online or just sit at some table with a tablet and shit with a LAN installed on a big fucking server for the tournaments. Itll save the WSOP and WPT a fortune on staff and shit. I mean what were seeing to me, is the push to turn live poker into Online poker and its just not the same beast. Online poker already has essentially shot clocks for action and autofolded if not acted upon as well as the extended time (time chips/time bank no difference). I mean seriously If this is what poker players want then screw it let them use those electronic dealer tables programmed to what these whiny GTO asshats want and be done with it. Would mean less vig needed to cover staff etc. No need for dealer change outs etc. Live Poker isnt Online Poker period never has and it shouldnt be ever. This whole discussion just annoys me to no end.

As for a solution to guys like YoViral is to institute something via the TDA rules that if a player continues to take excessive time in a given time frame they be sanctioned for stalling by the TD or floor with a warning and then rnd penalities. Obviously the rules need to be flexible given the circumstances with a balance especially at the bubble between people with legit needs to decide if they want to try to fold to the money or take a shot to win it knowing if they make a bad decision it KOs them. The RFID cards are basically ubiquitous at this point maybe a TD has the ability to look at the cards themselves via some monitor to determine if this is a legitimate decision for the player or if the donkey is stalling with some shit hand like 82os preflop.

I’m so conflicted for two reasons that are pretty much same, the comfort of recreational players. Last summer, I witnessed the following multiple times, 1. Rec players annoyed at the tanking from anti social pros, especially upset because they felt it was robbing them of hands to play. (And they aren’t wrong). 2. Red players who are playing, in some cases, bucket list events, that are massive buy-ins for themselves, and are tanking because for them it’s truly a huge spot. I will admit, I was pretty agitated at first when I saw people tanking so early, two hours before the bubble. But it was when I realized, after talking to some of these RecTankers, in many cases these are huge spots for them, it’s a dream to cash and they don’t want to miss out. Their tanking was truly genuine even though to me I thought it was absured