Los Angeles area (Thousand Oaks) mass shooting - 12 dead

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Originally Posted by verminaard

I am not trying to minimize anything, but lets have a little perspective. There are ~400 million people in the US. Given that, the violence rate in our country is actually extremely low historically. Granted, compared specifically to other Western democracies of today it is high, but from a historically perspective it is low. Most societies through most time (and many societies today) have had a lot more violence and mortality, and life was generally shorter, meaner and uglier.

The bottom line to keep in perspective is that generally the human experience is getting better and things are moving up. It isn't a straight line, and there are blips, and this is certainly a blip. However, we also have to keep in mind just how many more people there are than 50 or 100 or 200 years ago, and hence even low probability events are going to happen more often.

Obviously it doesn't help that we live in a society that glorifies gun violence and has millions of guns, and that certainly plays into things, but given that is the case and just how many people there are from a statistical perspective things aren't as doom and gloom as is often projected.

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So much this....but it seems to fall on deaf ears with some "educated" individuals....

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Originally Posted by Gookieheimowitz

The blame should solely be put on the disgusting VA health care system . The mental health system at the VA is a disaster when it comes to dealing with these guys . Sadly there is thousands of PTSD vets walking the streets untreated properly because the doctors at the VA are morons when it comes to mental health.

They see these guys and diagnose them within minutes . Prescribe them pills and send them on there way.


This shit will only get worse until the VA health care system gets there head out of there ass

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This and there is also the topic of security clearance. Many vets, even while not on active duty, have some type of security clearance of varying levels. This is a very valuable thing to have for them after discharge because, depending on the occupation they are seeking, it can significantly raise their chances of obtaining a well paying job. An example would be lets say a vet getting a job with Boeing. Unlike other employees, he would be able to work on planes that are classified as well as converse with military brass to get the job done.

The problem comes in where if a vet has ptsd issues and is officially seeking mental help, he may lose his clearance; thus many vets go untreated because they know it is a big risk.

I don't want to single out military veterans because that simply wouldnt be fair as there are obviously plenty of batshit crazy people out there who are not vets who commit acts of violence, however something needs to change so they can get the quality help they need and deserve. The current statistic is that 20 veterans per DAY are committing suicide.

I was raised by a COMBAT veteran of the korean war. Was there from DAY 1, shipped straight from Japan to stop hoards of screaming Chinese with little of way of supplies , support, clothing and nothing strong enough to counter the supirier weaponry of the Soviets that they had.

I was sorrounded by vets of Korea growing up..

WHY WASNT IT LIKE THAT BACK THEN,,, HMMMMM?!?!?;
They were all quiet humble and kind men that talked little of themselves but had great empathy for others..

They worked hard and raised there families in a nuclear family filled eurocentric judeo Christian enthused America.

Im sure the ww2 vets were the same.


SO THEREFORE!!! the answer lies somewhere else!!!!!!!!

But do carry on, it's entertaining for me.


what has changed???
Lollollolhahahahalololololhahalibtards.

He was just an uneducated immigrant who some little English and joined to receive his citizenship, WHICH HE GREATLY VALUED.

he was used as cannon fodder BUT just figured everyone has too pay there dues.

He never considered himself a victim of ANYTHING.

and nobody OWED HIM ANYTHING.

And it wasn't against the law to ask a pretty girl on a date and sodomy wasn't a way of life tought in schools.


hmm?!?
What has changed????

I'm sure it's not what I'm implying, it's just the white man's fault..
It's funny how these libtards always have the solutions to the problems there giving us.

And it's always the same fix, I'm sure it's a coincencedence.

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Originally Posted by thesparten

He was just an uneducated immigrant who some little English and joined to receive his citizenship, WHICH HE GREATLY VALUED.

he was used as cannon fodder BUT just figured everyone has too pay there dues.

He never considered himself a victim of ANYTHING.

and nobody OWED HIM ANYTHING.

And it wasn't against the law to ask a pretty girl on a date and sodomy wasn't a way of life tought in schools.


hmm?!?
What has changed????



I'm sure it's not what I'm implying, it's just the white man's fault..
It's funny how these libtards always have the solutions to the problems there giving us.

And it's always the same fix, I'm sure it's a coincencedence.

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the Sparten or FPS Russia?
you make the call

https://beta-static.photobucket.com/...080&fit=bounds

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Originally Posted by Gordman

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Originally Posted by Gookieheimowitz

The blame should solely be put on the disgusting VA health care system . The mental health system at the VA is a disaster when it comes to dealing with these guys . Sadly there is thousands of PTSD vets walking the streets untreated properly because the doctors at the VA are morons when it comes to mental health.

They see these guys and diagnose them within minutes . Prescribe them pills and send them on there way.


This shit will only get worse until the VA health care system gets there head out of there ass

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This and there is also the topic of security clearance. Many vets, even while not on active duty, have some type of security clearance of varying levels. This is a very valuable thing to have for them after discharge because, depending on the occupation they are seeking, it can significantly raise their chances of obtaining a well paying job. An example would be lets say a vet getting a job with Boeing. Unlike other employees, he would be able to work on planes that are classified as well as converse with military brass to get the job done.

The problem comes in where if a vet has ptsd issues and is officially seeking mental help, he may lose his clearance; thus many vets go untreated because they know it is a big risk.

I don't want to single out military veterans because that simply wouldnt be fair as there are obviously plenty of batshit crazy people out there who are not vets who commit acts of violence, however something needs to change so they can get the quality help they need and deserve. The current statistic is that 20 veterans per DAY are committing suicide.

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this is an incredibly good post.

i have a good friend who carries TS+ clearance and struggles with a lot of problems he should seek professional help for.

why doesnt he?

because it can cost him his clearance to get help.

maintaining clearance is a lifestyle commitment that can get untenable quickly. i was asked to upgrade my clearance about 2 years ago and decided to opt out of it entirely, because i recognized that under this administration it was going to be a fucking nightmare. everything ive seen/heard since backs up that gut read. life-long civil servants are being frog marched off government installations because they required an upgrade in clearance levels and the backlog kept it from happening in a reasonable amount of time.

and to be clear; i mean literally marched off the premises in broad daylight in front of people they have worked with for 20+ years, with a security guard's hand under each arm the entire way. and summarily replaced with a Very Dumb Honkey who has no idea what works, only what they want. that sort of trip.

good times, america. good times.

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Originally Posted by Gookieheimowitz

This shit will only get worse until the VA health care system gets there head out of there ass

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to be clear, the root problem is we no longer have enough hot wars to thin the herd of psychopaths.

a lot of smart people are predicting a rash of serial/spree killers in the next decade because of this. perhaps we are starting to see it already.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

It occurred on "college country music night" at the bar, named Borderline Bar.

It's located right off the 101 freeway in Thousand Oaks, which is about halfway between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara.

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That place has been in business so long that even I've been there...last time was about 20 years ago

Nice place; clean, open and well lit with large windows (think Denny's/strip mall like exterior), good sized dance floor, and was not at all anything like a smoky dive bar: a place that felt very safe

it primarily country music then and had a 21 - 45 crowd...although times changing as they are I'm certain the place now has nights of Salsa & Rock En Espanole

Named the "Borderline" because it's near the county line between LA & Ventura Counties.

Real shame so many young people out for some fun and this happens

(I was there when I was learning West Coast Swing and looking for a place to try out my developing skillz...)

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Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

It occurred on "college country music night" at the bar, named Borderline Bar.

It's located right off the 101 freeway in Thousand Oaks, which is about halfway between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara.

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That place has been in business so long that even I've been there...last time was about 20 years ago

Nice place; clean, open and well lit, good sized dance floor, and was not at all anything like a smoky dive bar: a place that felt very safe

it primarily country music then and had a 21 - 45 crowd...although times changing as they are I'm certain the place now has nights of Salsa & Rock En Espanole

Named the "Borderline" because it's near the county line between LA & Ventura County.

(I was there when I was learning West Coast Swing and looking for a place to try out my developing skillz...)

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im a bit confused because one of the people grazed apparently was 19 but w/e.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

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Originally Posted by Gookieheimowitz

This shit will only get worse until the VA health care system gets there head out of there ass

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to be clear, the root problem is we no longer have enough hot wars to thin the herd of psychopaths.

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I’m kinda nostalgic for McNamara’s Project 100,000 but then who would I talk to on PFA?

Rumor has it that 50 people who survived the Las Vegas shooting were in the club during this shooting.

jooincidence?

LULZ


Fucking Mossad.

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Originally Posted by thesparten

Im sure the ww2 vets were the same.

what has changed???
Lollollolhahahahalololololhahalibtards.

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My great uncle who was at the Bulge was completely fucked up. Slept under his bed and screamed through the night.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

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Originally Posted by Gordman

This and there is also the topic of security clearance. Many vets, even while not on active duty, have some type of security clearance of varying levels. This is a very valuable thing to have for them after discharge because, depending on the occupation they are seeking, it can significantly raise their chances of obtaining a well paying job. An example would be lets say a vet getting a job with Boeing. Unlike other employees, he would be able to work on planes that are classified as well as converse with military brass to get the job done.

The problem comes in where if a vet has ptsd issues and is officially seeking mental help, he may lose his clearance; thus many vets go untreated because they know it is a big risk.

I don't want to single out military veterans because that simply wouldnt be fair as there are obviously plenty of batshit crazy people out there who are not vets who commit acts of violence, however something needs to change so they can get the quality help they need and deserve. The current statistic is that 20 veterans per DAY are committing suicide.

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this is an incredibly good post.

i have a good friend who carries TS+ clearance and struggles with a lot of problems he should seek professional help for.

why doesnt he?

because it can cost him his clearance to get help.

maintaining clearance is a lifestyle commitment that can get untenable quickly. i was asked to upgrade my clearance about 2 years ago and decided to opt out of it entirely, because i recognized that under this administration it was going to be a fucking nightmare. everything ive seen/heard since backs up that gut read. life-long civil servants are being frog marched off government installations because they required an upgrade in clearance levels and the backlog kept it from happening in a reasonable amount of time.

and to be clear; i mean literally marched off the premises in broad daylight in front of people they have worked with for 20+ years, with a security guard's hand under each arm the entire way. and summarily replaced with a Very Dumb Honkey who has no idea what works, only what they want. that sort of trip.

good times, america. good times.

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I had a friend who went to West Point etc. His view on all this PTSD stuff was that many of these guys had a ton of issues before getting in the military. For the most part, you do that shit if your options are limited and you can't figure out anything better. It is sorta the lazy way to go. Give your life for a dollar, kill on command. These are people who couldn't make it in the private sector.

PTSD. Christ. Life is ugly. Deal with it. A bunch of liberal whiners. Security Cleareance? So the guys who lived off government jobs now get some special preference in the private sector. Those jobs are filled regardless.

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

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Originally Posted by sonatine

this is an incredibly good post.

i have a good friend who carries TS+ clearance and struggles with a lot of problems he should seek professional help for.

why doesnt he?

because it can cost him his clearance to get help.

maintaining clearance is a lifestyle commitment that can get untenable quickly. i was asked to upgrade my clearance about 2 years ago and decided to opt out of it entirely, because i recognized that under this administration it was going to be a fucking nightmare. everything ive seen/heard since backs up that gut read. life-long civil servants are being frog marched off government installations because they required an upgrade in clearance levels and the backlog kept it from happening in a reasonable amount of time.

and to be clear; i mean literally marched off the premises in broad daylight in front of people they have worked with for 20+ years, with a security guard's hand under each arm the entire way. and summarily replaced with a Very Dumb Honkey who has no idea what works, only what they want. that sort of trip.

good times, america. good times.

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I had a friend who went to West Point etc. His view on all this PTSD stuff was that many of these guys had a ton of issues before getting in the military. For the most part, you do that shit if your options are limited and you can't figure out anything better. It is sorta the lazy way to go. Give your life for a dollar, kill on command. These are people who couldn't make it in the private sector.

PTSD. Christ. Life is ugly. Deal with it. A bunch of liberal whiners. Security Cleareance? So the guys who lived off government jobs now get some special preference in the private sector. Those jobs are filled regardless.

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i think your friend is 100% correct and very, very few people who ever find themselves firing a shot in anger ended up in that position because of something other than personality defect or a general lack of ambition.

but as far as my post goes, i wasnt really getting into the ptsd angle (or its root causes) as much as i was pointing out how trying to maintain security clearance when you really need basic, average, every day professional mental health care can be like trying to catch a knife.

devidee: How would every gangbanger in Chicago get a gun?

The last registered owner of the gun would bear civil liability as de facto seller unless they had filled a report to the police before the crime was committed that it had been stolen.

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

devidee: How would every gangbanger in Chicago get a gun?

The last registered owner of the gun would bear civil liability as de facto seller unless they had filled a report to the police before the crime was committed that it had been stolen.

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And if they file the LULZ report?

U.S. Mass Shooters Are Disproportionately Veterans

http://davidswanson.org/u-s-mass-sho...tely-veterans/

This shit these guys see in modern war today is fucked up. I say the government provides them with mushrooms. It can't hurt

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Originally Posted by Shizzmoney

U.S. Mass Shooters Are Disproportionately Veterans

http://davidswanson.org/u-s-mass-sho...tely-veterans/

This shit these guys see in modern war today is fucked up. I say the government provides them with mushrooms. It can't hurt

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Agreed. Normal people signing up to "defend their country" exposed to horrific scenes, never erased, are expected to blend back into society? No one but their counterparts can say shit about what they've gone through.
How dare anyone belittle their patriotism and experience.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

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Originally Posted by Gordman

This and there is also the topic of security clearance. Many vets, even while not on active duty, have some type of security clearance of varying levels. This is a very valuable thing to have for them after discharge because, depending on the occupation they are seeking, it can significantly raise their chances of obtaining a well paying job. An example would be lets say a vet getting a job with Boeing. Unlike other employees, he would be able to work on planes that are classified as well as converse with military brass to get the job done.

The problem comes in where if a vet has ptsd issues and is officially seeking mental help, he may lose his clearance; thus many vets go untreated because they know it is a big risk.

I don't want to single out military veterans because that simply wouldnt be fair as there are obviously plenty of batshit crazy people out there who are not vets who commit acts of violence, however something needs to change so they can get the quality help they need and deserve. The current statistic is that 20 veterans per DAY are committing suicide.

---

this is an incredibly good post.

i have a good friend who carries TS+ clearance and struggles with a lot of problems he should seek professional help for.

why doesnt he?

because it can cost him his clearance to get help.

maintaining clearance is a lifestyle commitment that can get untenable quickly. i was asked to upgrade my clearance about 2 years ago and decided to opt out of it entirely, because i recognized that under this administration it was going to be a fucking nightmare. everything ive seen/heard since backs up that gut read. life-long civil servants are being frog marched off government installations because they required an upgrade in clearance levels and the backlog kept it from happening in a reasonable amount of time.

and to be clear; i mean literally marched off the premises in broad daylight in front of people they have worked with for 20+ years, with a security guard's hand under each arm the entire way. and summarily replaced with a Very Dumb Honkey who has no idea what works, only what they want. that sort of trip.

good times, america. good times.

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The plot to Homeland is in here somewhere. (at least the first few seasons)