New York just made it legal to abort a fetus "at any time" of the pregnancy

https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/22/l...k-legislature/

Outrageous.

Abortions are now allowed in New York at ANY point of the pregnancy "... when necessary to protect a woman’s life or health".

In case this sounds reasonable to you, understand that it was ALREADY legal to abort a fetus at any point if the mother's life was in danger.

This change in law allows the abortion not just if the mother's life is in danger, but also if the pregnancy is having an impact on her "health".

Unfortunately, the term "health" is extremely broad, and will allow doctors to abuse it, where claims of mental or emotional health issues will be enough to justify a very late term abortion, which is basically the equivalent to murder, especially if that child is old enough to survive outside of the womb.

In addition, the state already allows abortions up to the 24th week, which honestly is pretty insane. Some babies born at the 24 week mark have gone on to survive and live normal lives. You're not just aborting a few cells at that point. For reference, babies born at the 26 week mark have an 80% survival rate, and those at the 27 week mark have a 90% survival rate.

I just don't understand how the left advocates shit like this, but they are screaming about the sanctity of human life when a mass murderer is given the death penalty.

Fuck the health of women right, Druff?

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Originally Posted by MrTickle

Fuck the health of women right, Druff?

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If you have carried a child to the point where it is such a formed human life to where it has a fair chance of surviving outside the womb, then yes, fuck the health of the woman if it means extinguishing a human life in order to make the mother more "healthy".

I agree that the pregnancy should be terminated if it threatens the mother's life, for obvious reasons.

But yes, non-life-threatening "health problems" aren't a good enough excuse to end a life, especially when this will open up the whole situation to abuse, and basically legalize murder of the almost-born.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/22/l...k-legislature/

Outrageous.

Abortions are now allowed in New York at ANY point of the pregnancy "... when necessary to protect a woman’s life or health".

In case this sounds reasonable to you, understand that it was ALREADY legal to abort a fetus at any point if the mother's life was in danger.

This change in law allows the abortion not just if the mother's life is in danger, but also if the pregnancy is having an impact on her "health".

Unfortunately, the term "health" is extremely broad, and will allow doctors to abuse it, where claims of mental or emotional health issues will be enough to justify a very late term abortion, which is basically the equivalent to murder, especially if that child is old enough to survive outside of the womb.

In addition, the state already allows abortions up to the 24th week, which honestly is pretty insane. Some babies born at the 24 week mark have gone on to survive and live normal lives. You're not just aborting a few cells at that point. For reference, babies born at the 26 week mark have an 80% survival rate, and those at the 27 week mark have a 90% survival rate.

I just don't understand how the left advocates shit like this, but they are screaming about the sanctity of human life when a mass murderer is given the death penalty.

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Can you cite statistics supporting this? My wife has told me a lot of stories of having to do emergency deliveries around this time period, and none of them have a happy ending. I will concede my understanding is that this is a threshold point and babies born even a few weeks later can survive and live "normal" lives.

FWIW, I am generally for allowing these "late-stage" abortions, mainly along pragmatic grounds. The vast majority of women who would entertain the notion of a 2nd stage or later abortion are poor, inner city (code for ghetto black or latino) teenage girls, who normally hid the pregnancy from their family until this time point. Some of them are also so stupid/obese/drugged out (normally some combination of all of these) they really don't know they are pregnant until it reaches this point.

From a merely pragmatic viewpoint a child born into such a situation has such a small chance of becoming a productive human being and is likely to be such a liability to society that I am ok with the abortion. However, I also understand why someone would have a strong moral stance against allowing this, and would never tell them they are wrong.

My wife was theoretically pro-abortion until she had to participate in a few during her training, and this personal experience made her personally against voluntary abortion of a healthy fetus, and she also refuses to do them herself. When a patient of hers does decide upon this course, she always refers them to colleagues who do them.

Also, FWIW I think the whole "women's body" argument is complete bullshit. If you are doing a voluntary abortion of a healthy, fertilized egg you are choosing to prematurely end another life, period. I don't care what trimester it happens in. That being said, I don't think it shouldn't necessarily be allowed, I am just saying we shouldn't be playing semantic games to deny what is really happening.

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Originally Posted by MrTickle

Fuck the health of women right, Druff?

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This argument is completely dishonest. We all know the purpose of this law is to loosely use the "health" clause to give women a legal out for having elective late stage abortions. The % of such abortions that would actually be performed for legitimate "health" reasons is so minuscule to be negligent, and probably all of these would be allowed without any new legislation.

If we are going to argue about such an important topic, can it at least be an honest argument? Is that asking too much?

Also, I do appreciate the irony that the practical application of most "pro-life" legislature, championed by the predominantly white religious right, would be to have more poor black/hispanic children who will grow up to share none of their values or beliefs.

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Originally Posted by verminaard

Also, I do appreciate the irony that the practical application of most "pro-life" legislature, championed by the predominantly white religious right, would be to have more poor black/hispanic children who will grow up to share none of their values or beliefs.

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yep, if roe v wade was ever overturned, the only states that might make abortion illegal would be southern.

more kids growing up in absolute poverty would, of course, turn those states blue.

Wow, talk about changing your mind in a new york minute......

Lol libtards ...

Abortion after week 24 is murder, plain and simple. Justifying it that the kid “likely” would be born into a poor community is absolutely fucking asinine. Is it really even necessary to name works altering figures who grew up destitute? Or scum of the earth who grew up rich? God damn what a shitty decision making factor that is.

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Originally Posted by sah_24

Lol libtards ...

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thanks for the red rep but i'm not a liberal

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...-abortion-born

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Originally Posted by jsearles22

Abortion after week 24 is murder, plain and simple. Justifying it that the kid “likely” would be born into a poor community is absolutely fucking asinine. Is it really even necessary to name works altering figures who grew up destitute? Or scum of the earth who grew up rich? God damn what a shitty decision making factor that is.

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Mostly it just simplifies everything. It will be a really small number where abortion takes place now when it wouldn't have before.

There's no guesswork, if something is life threatening enough. The life threatening thingie is nearly always a probability. Just giving birth has a small chance of the mother dying. And then there are cases where it's extremely likely that the mother and baby will both die. Everything in between was always murky. Some people are willing to take 50/50 flips for their life while others aren't.

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Originally Posted by gimmick

Mostly it just simplifies everything. It will be a really small number where abortion takes place now when it wouldn't have before.

There's no guesswork, if something is life threatening enough. The life threatening thingie is nearly always a probability. Just giving birth has a small chance of the mother dying. And then there are cases where it's extremely likely that the mother and baby will both die. Everything in between was always murky. Some people are willing to take 50/50 flips for their life while others aren't.

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This ain’t the Middle Ages. The maternal mortality ratio in the US today is 23 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies. That is a very tiny percentage and I guarantee this law being passed isn’t moving the needle on that at all. This law has nothing to do With maternal safety, that is all pretense.

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Originally Posted by verminaard

This ain’t the Middle Ages. The maternal mortality ratio in the US today is 23 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies. That is a very tiny percentage and I guarantee this law being passed isn’t moving the needle on that at all. This law has nothing to do With maternal safety, that is all pretense.

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Yea there's a tiny percentage and then there's a huge percentage when it comes to life threatening. These are the closest things to absolutes we have. This law is about everything in the middle.

Feel free to set up the exact likelihood of death when you can abort the baby. 20/80, 50/50, 90/10. I don't know or care. Abortion isn't a day at the spa. People don't intentionally delay abortion to the last minute either. Or stay pregnant for 8 months without noticing.

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Originally Posted by gimmick

Yea there's a tiny percentage and then there's a huge percentage when it comes to life threatening. These are the closest things to absolutes we have. This law is about everything in the middle.

Feel free to set up the exact likelihood of death when you can abort the baby. 20/80, 50/50, 90/10. I don't know or care. Abortion isn't a day at the spa. People don't intentionally delay abortion to the last minute either. Or stay pregnant for 8 months without noticing.

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People actually do delay abortions, and do go 8 months without noticing (or at least pretending not to notice). This isnt even that uncommon in poor inner city communities.

My wife does OB. I here about this shit all the time. You are just talking out of your ass. And for my wife in several years and thousands of patients there was literally one maternal fatality, where the mother hemorrhaged and bled to death AFTER a normal delivery, this law would have done nothing for.

I could ask, but I doubt she had a single case where there was actual indication at 24-30 weeks a mother should abort a pregnancy at that time because there was a significant immediate risk to her own health. And I am pretty confident if such a scenario did come up a women could get an abortion in NY without this new law.

Serious maternal health issues do come up occasionally, but in the 35-40 week range, where the question is whether to do a C section and get the baby out a little early or not.

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Originally Posted by verminaard

People actually do delay abortions, and do go 8 months without noticing (or at least pretending not to notice). This isnt even that uncommon in poor inner city communities.

My wife does OB. I here about this shit all the time. You are just talking out of your ass. And for my wife in several years and thousands of patients there was literally one maternal fatality, where the mother hemorrhaged and bled to death AFTER a normal delivery, this law would have done nothing for.

I could ask, but I doubt she had a single case where there was actual indication at 24-30 weeks a mother should abort a pregnancy at that time because there was a significant immediate risk to her own health. And I am pretty confident if such a scenario did come up a women could get an abortion in NY without this new law.

That stuff does come up occasionally, but in the 35-40 week range, where the question is whether to do a C section and get the baby out a little early or not.

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Yea, if you still haven't picked it up, normal childbirth was an example of a very small chance that still occasionally happens. Basically the lower bound.

It's not even remotely important what can happen, but what will happen. And more precisely what will happen that wouldn't happen otherwise. Maybe 1 in 100000 abortions more, while it legally clears every party that's involved in 1000 abortions that will go through today but mother and doctors could be held accountable.

An abortion thread.... this should go well.