Do you c-bet this flop? 5-10 NL cash game situation

I don't play much NL cash, so I'm curious what you guys would do here.

I was at a Commerce 5-10 NL cash game, waiting to get into 40-80 limit holdem. I was new to the table and had only played 3 hands (all folded pre).

Now I'm in the cutoff with AhKs. Player two to my right, a middle-aged Asian guy, opens to 35. Next guy, another middle-aged Asian guy, flats. I make it 130, hoping to take down the pot there without further drama. I have 1500 in my stack, and the other two both have around that as well.

Original raiser calls, other one folds.

Flop: 5s6c7s

He checks.

Do you c-bet here or check behind?

If you c-bet, how much?

Explain your reasoning either way. Then I'll say what I did, and how the rest of the hand played out.

Terrible flop for your range where competent villains will be check-raising a ton. I check back and give up unless the turn is an ace, king, or spade.

For his 2.5x open opponent has mostly big cards or low/medium pairs. He mostly misses this flop. I c-bet around 160-200. fold to a check/rasise, check fold to a call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick

Terrible flop for your range where competent villains will be check-raising a ton. I check back and give up unless the turn is an ace, king, or spade.

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Flop also terrible for the villians range.

With no info other than 35 y/o male asian, I would c-bet 30% pot, hoping for a cheap fold, or a call.

I would fold to a large check-raise obviously. If he pots it, I think I call holding 2 overs and backdoor K-high flush.

If he calls I start thinking flush draw/ straight draw/ combo draw/ set/ a pair+

You should have at least 30% equity against his full range.

Im almost certainly giving up on T or R if I dont improve and he raises another bet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick

I check back and give up unless the turn is an ace, king, or spade.

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this is definitly the easy way to play the hand and not end up in a weird situation, fit-or-fold. Although I dont think this will be the most +EV strat in a 5-10 game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aayjay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick

I check back and give up unless the turn is an ace, king, or spade.

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this is definitly the easy way to play the hand and not end up in a weird situation, fit-or-fold. Although I dont think this will be the most +EV strat in a 5-10 game.

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I miscounted. This is 3.5x open but is probably standard in this game.
Here are a couple of things to consider:
If you c-bet say, $120 then that is all you are risking right now, but only you know you're folding to a check-raise.
If he does check-raise, he's risking his entire stack because he doesn't know you're going to fold.
If you check back, you're telling him you DON'T have AA,KK,QQ, set, two pair, or 1 card straight draw.
I would go a little more than 30% to try to fold out his straight draws.

It would be interesting to see what a solver says about this spot.
Thanks for bringing us this hand, Todd, I wish we had more discussions like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbodoggins

If you c-bet say, $120 then that is all you are risking right now, but only you know you're folding to a check-raise
If he does check-raise, he's risking his entire stack because he doesn't know you're going to fold.

Yeah. If he check raises his range is very strong, because of the implied threat

If you check back, you're telling him you DON'T have AA,KK,QQ, set, two pair, or 1 card straight draw.

Not sure I agree here, I could check back this board if I had it crushed with a straight, set of 8s, or pocket QQ, not always but I dont hate it.

I would go a little more than 30% to try to fold out his straight draws.

Agree, 35% maybe 40% , roughly $150 in this spot


Thanks for bringing us this hand, Todd, I wish we had more discussions like this.

10000% Super refreshing. Would be great if the forum had daily active gambling content.

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Thanks for your commentary, everyone. Unfortunately, I don't play much NL cash, so posted hands like this will be few and far between. I just find NL cash to be boring, whereas I enjoy limit games (not just holdem) in cash format.

I felt this hand was worth posting because it's not at all obvious what to do.

If you check back on this board as a pre-flop 3-bettor, you're screaming loudly that you missed. There are just too many dangerous free cards to give away here.

If you c-bet it, you might be throwing away money, especially if you get called and think you need to keep firing on the turn in order to win the hand (or at least avoid getting bluffed off on river).

My decision came down to the player I was facing. While I did not know anyone at the table, and had only been there for 3 hands, I decided to go with what I knew of middle-aged Asian guys at Commerce. Some are tight/solid, and others are wild gamblers. However, this guy gave me more of the tight/solid vibe, so I figured he probably wasn't trying any funny moves on me. Even if he did, it wouldn't be painful to throw away AK on a board like that, as a check raise would likely mean I'm either crushed or he's drawing to a ton of outs to beat me. It's not like the board is AQ9 with two spades, and I have to be concerned that I might be run off the best hand.

Therefore, I decided to fire out a c-bet, fold to a raise, and not put any more money into the hand unless I caught an A or K.

Pot before the flop was $310, so that's another consideration. We don't have a lot of room to play a lot postflop without being committed, and we both know that.

I bet $175, he called. Crap.

Turn was 5c. Fairly unlikely to have changed anything. He checked quickly, I checked.

River Jh.

He checked quickly, I checked.

At this point, I thought I might actually be the winner. Perhaps he called with a straight or flush draw on the flop, didn't improve, and decided not to attempt to run me off on the river. However, it was also possible he had something like 44, where he didn't want to fold the flop, but didn't feel he'd get a call for worse on the river.

He turned over his hand to show....





























AJ spades!!

:what


Not what I was expecting. So he actually rivered me! Quite surprised he didn't fire the river, but perhaps he was trying to induce a bluff. I do wonder what he would have done if the jack or spade didn't hit. Would he have tried to run me off the better hand? I'm guessing probably not, as he could have taken an aggro line on the flop (flush draw with two overs), and chose not to.

I left the game a few hands later when I was called to the 40-80 limit holdem.