Sklansky wants elderly drivers to post a warning on their cars

On the TwoPlusTwo Pokercast, David Sklansky wants elderly divers whose driving skills may have deteriorated to have a sign on their car that says "Elderly Driver", much like the "Student Driver" signs. Even though I am 65 myself and generally deplore "geezer bashing", the 66 year old Sklansky may have come up with an idea with some merit. On further reflection, I believe that when Sklansky is in a public place where females are present, he should by law be required to wear a T shirt that clearly states: WARNING: DAVID SLANSKY IS PRESENT ALL FEMALES WHO MAY BE EITHER PHYSICALLY OR PSYCHOLOGICALLY CHALLENGED HE MAY TRY TO INGRATIATE HIMSELF WITH YOU FOR THE PURPOSE OF SEXUAL PERVERSION PLEASE KEEP TWO CAR LENGTHS DISTANCE This only seems fair to me since we all should be concerned with public safety both on and off the road.

iam 67 and my top speed is 55. been that way for most of my life.

Does he have to have a "Pre-teen on Board" bumper sticker?

I didn't read OP til now or wouldn't have posted that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delaware

iam 67 and my top speed is 55. been that way for most of my life.

---

So how man years have you been 67? Too bad you didn't figure out how to stop age sooner than that. I can't imagine in would be much fun to be stuck on 67.

He needs to have a bumper sticker on his car that says.

''I'm a pervert that likes to screw young women.''

:lol2

anyone start digging that hole in the desert yet?

For someone who prides himself on being rational that's a very ignorant statement. While Elderly drivers do have worse driving skill overall, in terms of being dangerous they are a fairly safe population (hence why they have such low insurance rates). The Elderly tend to be self aware in that they self restrict their driving to comfortable conditions, and when they are in accidents, its more likely to be fender benders with minimal safety concerns. In the event that they do kill people its usually themselves.

The real problem has nothing to do with driving skill and all researchers have known this for 40 years. In fact its been shown repeatedly that the top race car drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road 9despite being the most skilled). How so? Well driving style plays much more of a role than skill. People who drive recklessly or take high risk (often young males) are the real people you have to watch out for.

You'd be better off mandating that all young males drive with a female passenger (which has been shown to make guys more responsible).

The warning sign idea is idiotic, and would be illegal, as it would be blatant age discrimination.

However, I do feel they should require more frequent driver's tests for drivers over 80. Like every year. While it's true that elderly people rarely drive recklessly, there are many cases of elderly people accidentally plowing into crowds of people (or storefronts) because they are senile and have no business behind the wheel. Other elderly people are still good drivers, so this should be determined on a case-by-case basis at the DMV.

There should also be a program where a direct relative can report an elderly driver to the DMV as being unfit, and they would then be immediately tested. Many senile and/or stubborn people over 80 don't want to give up their license despite being unfit to drive, and there's nothing any concerned relatives can do about it.

I think you should have to repass the drivers test or at least a reflex test at certain intervals to keep your license

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The warning sign idea is idiotic, and would be illegal, as it would be blatant age discrimination.

However, I do feel they should require more frequent driver's tests for drivers over 80. Like every year. While it's true that elderly people rarely drive recklessly, there are many cases of elderly people accidentally plowing into crowds of people (or storefronts) because they are senile and have no business behind the wheel. Other elderly people are still good drivers, so this should be determined on a case-by-case basis at the DMV.

There should also be a program where a direct relative can report an elderly driver to the DMV as being unfit, and they would then be immediately tested. Many senile and/or stubborn people over 80 don't want to give up their license despite being unfit to drive, and there's nothing any concerned relatives can do about it.

---

When I was like 15, I personally saw an 80+ year old back right through a furniture store in reverse. Nobody was hurt, but there was a two year old in a stroller a few feet away. Guy was definitely senile, he was complaining the groceries in his front seat would spoil as they led him into the ambulance. I looked in the car and there was a roll of paper towels and a 2 liter of coke and some type of soap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damone

When I was like 15, I personally saw an 80+ year old back right through a furniture store in reverse.

---

no you didn't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The warning sign idea is idiotic, and would be illegal, as it would be blatant age discrimination.

However, I do feel they should require more frequent driver's tests for drivers over 80. Like every year. While it's true that elderly people rarely drive recklessly, there are many cases of elderly people accidentally plowing into crowds of people (or storefronts) because they are senile and have no business behind the wheel. Other elderly people are still good drivers, so this should be determined on a case-by-case basis at the DMV.

There should also be a program where a direct relative can report an elderly driver to the DMV as being unfit, and they would then be immediately tested. Many senile and/or stubborn people over 80 don't want to give up their license despite being unfit to drive, and there's nothing any concerned relatives can do about it.

---

Druff you are smarter than this. "Many" cases is simply media bias. There are 40k fatalities every year in usa from motorvehicles crashes, the people who are killed from elderly are nothing compared to a young jewdonk/bottomset. If you are worried about someone killing your family its much more likely it will be someone younger than yourself.

https://www.aaafoundation.org/sites/...sk%20FINAL.pdf

Look at the charts/graphs starting on page 4/5

Just to be clear and not to defend the loathsome Sklansky, he only wanted elderly drivers with deteriorated driving skills to have the Elderly Driver sign. When I started the thread it was mostly to poke fun at Sklansky the putz, but it clearly struck a nerve with fellow seniors like Delaware and BetCheckBet. What I would say about this issue is that if you hear about a driver who was texting and mowed down a cyclist or a jogger, will he turn out to be 65 or 25? When you are about to cross the street at an intersection and a car accelerates through the just changed red light, will he be 19 or 79? If by chance you are out on the road about a half an hour after bar closing time and see a mangled car accident involving a car and a tree, will the EMTs be trying to save the lives of three 81 year olds or three 21 year olds? Who is most likely to self-regulate by taking advantage of public transportation, the elderly impaired driver or the teenager with numerous traffic violations and accidents? Finally, because there is no crime in America, I am sure that cars with the Elderly Driver sign would not be targeted by muggers or carjackers as easy prey. They would surely be sympathetic and respectful to senior citizens. Concentrate on bad younger drivers first who cause the vast majority of mayhem, then come talk to us when you have all that sorted out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The warning sign idea is idiotic, and would be illegal, as it would be blatant age discrimination.

However, I do feel they should require more frequent driver's tests for drivers over 80. Like every year. While it's true that elderly people rarely drive recklessly, there are many cases of elderly people accidentally plowing into crowds of people (or storefronts) because they are senile and have no business behind the wheel. Other elderly people are still good drivers, so this should be determined on a case-by-case basis at the DMV.

There should also be a program where a direct relative can report an elderly driver to the DMV as being unfit, and they would then be immediately tested. Many senile and/or stubborn people over 80 don't want to give up their license despite being unfit to drive, and there's nothing any concerned relatives can do about it.

---

Druff you are smarter than this. "Many" cases is simply media bias. There are 40k fatalities every year in usa from motorvehicles crashes, the people who are killed from elderly are nothing compared to a young jewdonk/bottomset. If you are worried about someone killing your family its much more likely it will be someone younger than yourself.

---

You can't effectively test at the DMV for reckless driving because all but the biggest idiots will be on their best behavior at the test.

You CAN effectively test for people who are too senile or physically deteriorated to be able to drive safely.

This isn't a contest as to which age group causes the most fatalities. It is a real problem with an easy solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Just to be clear and not to defend the loathsome Sklansky, he only wanted elderly drivers with deteriorated driving skills to have the Elderly Driver sign. When I started the thread it was mostly to poke fun at Sklansky the putz, but it clearly struck a nerve with fellow seniors like Delaware and BetCheckBet. What I would say about this issue is that if you hear about a driver who was texting and mowed down a cyclist or a jogger, will he turn out to be 65 or 25? When you are about to cross the street at an intersection and a car accelerates through the just changed red light, will he be 19 or 79? If by chance you are out on the road about a half an hour after bar closing time and see a mangled car accident involving a car and a tree, will the EMTs be trying to save the lives of three 81 year olds or three 21 year olds? Who is most likely to self-regulate by taking advantage of public transportation, the elderly impaired driver or the teenager with numerous traffic violations and accidents? Finally, because there is no crime in America, I am sure that cars with the Elderly Driver sign would not be targeted by muggers or carjackers as easy prey. They would surely be sympathetic and respectful to senior citizens. Concentrate on bad younger drivers first, then come talk to us.

---

It's not an either/or scenario, and your examples are silly, esp about the elderly who would self-regulate and take public transportation. Elderly drivers oftentimes equate the ability to drive with independence, and would sooner admit to pedophilia and murder than admit to their diminishing skills and need for help/supervision. Ain't NOBODY more stubborn than an old person who's been independent their whole life, and cannot fathom not being so at their elevated age.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Just to be clear and not to defend the loathsome Sklansky, he only wanted elderly drivers with deteriorated driving skills to have the Elderly Driver sign. When I started the thread it was mostly to poke fun at Sklansky the putz, but it clearly struck a nerve with fellow seniors like Delaware and BetCheckBet. What I would say about this issue is that if you hear about a driver who was texting and mowed down a cyclist or a jogger, will he turn out to be 65 or 25? When you are about to cross the street at an intersection and a car accelerates through the just changed red light, will he be 19 or 79? If by chance you are out on the road about a half an hour after bar closing time and see a mangled car accident involving a car and a tree, will the EMTs be trying to save the lives of three 81 year olds or three 21 year olds? Who is most likely to self-regulate by taking advantage of public transportation, the elderly impaired driver or the teenager with numerous traffic violations and accidents? Finally, because there is no crime in America, I am sure that cars with the Elderly Driver sign would not be targeted by muggers or carjackers as easy prey. They would surely be sympathetic and respectful to senior citizens. Concentrate on bad younger drivers first, then come talk to us.

---

If he only wanted ones with deteriorated skills labeled, that's even dumber. If you could identify those drivers enough to give them a sign, they should be off the road completely, not saddled with a warning label and sent on their way.

BTW, when I advocated more frequent testing for elderly drivers, I meant ones over 80, not ones your age. Most people in their mid-60s have not deteriorated mentally/physically to where they become a danger on the road.

If I am still alive in 38 years, I will not be offended if the DMV requires me to take more frequent tests.

Imagine if your parent is 82 years old, and has had a sudden and sharp deterioration in their mental and/or physical state. However, they are stubborn and won't give up their keys, and you can't do a thing about it. You would feel helpless and unfortunately would have zero ability to do anything about it, unless they deteriorated to the point where they become fully incompetent. Many people in their 50s and 60s have had to deal with this situation involving their elderly parents, and the current laws regarding this are not sufficient.

BTW, one of my grandmothers died at 85. On her 84th birthday, she was fully mentally and physically competent. By the time she died (actually on her 85th birthday), she was completely enveloped in a mental fog and didn't know what was going on around her, to the point that she sometimes didn't recognize her own children. Fortunately she never drove, so taking her car away wasn't an issue, but otherwise she would have been an extreme danger if she held a license during that year. For the first few months of her degradation, she denied anything was wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Just to be clear and not to defend the loathsome Sklansky, he only wanted elderly drivers with deteriorated driving skills to have the Elderly Driver sign. When I started the thread it was mostly to poke fun at Sklansky the putz, but it clearly struck a nerve with fellow seniors like Delaware and BetCheckBet. What I would say about this issue is that if you hear about a driver who was texting and mowed down a cyclist or a jogger, will he turn out to be 65 or 25? When you are about to cross the street at an intersection and a car accelerates through the just changed red light, will he be 19 or 79? If by chance you are out on the road about a half an hour after bar closing time and see a mangled car accident involving a car and a tree, will the EMTs be trying to save the lives of three 81 year olds or three 21 year olds? Who is most likely to self-regulate by taking advantage of public transportation, the elderly impaired driver or the teenager with numerous traffic violations and accidents? Finally, because there is no crime in America, I am sure that cars with the Elderly Driver sign would not be targeted by muggers or carjackers as easy prey. They would surely be sympathetic and respectful to senior citizens. Concentrate on bad younger drivers first who cause the vast majority of mayhem, then come talk to us when you have all that sorted out.

---

lol what a great post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Just to be clear and not to defend the loathsome Sklansky, he only wanted elderly drivers with deteriorated driving skills to have the Elderly Driver sign. When I started the thread it was mostly to poke fun at Sklansky the putz, but it clearly struck a nerve with fellow seniors like Delaware and BetCheckBet. What I would say about this issue is that if you hear about a driver who was texting and mowed down a cyclist or a jogger, will he turn out to be 65 or 25? When you are about to cross the street at an intersection and a car accelerates through the just changed red light, will he be 19 or 79? If by chance you are out on the road about a half an hour after bar closing time and see a mangled car accident involving a car and a tree, will the EMTs be trying to save the lives of three 81 year olds or three 21 year olds? Who is most likely to self-regulate by taking advantage of public transportation, the elderly impaired driver or the teenager with numerous traffic violations and accidents? Finally, because there is no crime in America, I am sure that cars with the Elderly Driver sign would not be targeted by muggers or carjackers as easy prey. They would surely be sympathetic and respectful to senior citizens. Concentrate on bad younger drivers first who cause the vast majority of mayhem, then come talk to us when you have all that sorted out.

---

LOL at thinking I'm elderly. My avatar is of one of the greatest Canadian athletes ever!

The reason I'm passionate and knowledgeable on the subject is because I spent two years of my life writing a 100 page thesis around driving based on the FARS database, and in the process worked with some top researchers. In fact, I even spent some time looking into effective elderly driver retraining campaigns (which are way more effective than bumper stickers LOL). But as I mentioned there are some seriously ridiculous media bias in the area when it comes to what is reported and actual statistics. And contrary to what Druff states there are very effective ways to reduce risky driving styles. If you look at the history of fatalities from crashes in the usa its been on a steep decline the past two decades and it has nothing to do with DMV or more skilled drivers and much more around educational and policy changes.

BTW John is correct about elderly drivers self regulating. Tons of research to support this. Doesn;t change fact though that it is very difficult to go through and associated with quality of life drop.

Druff, nowhere in your latest post do you mention the most dangerous person in the entire United States, the American male teenage driver. This is indisputable. The reason why drivers your age and younger seem to single out a low risk group like seniors is because of their experience with elderly drivers. They drive too slowly and that is annoying to young people with their "busy" schedules. What you don't seem to grasp is that Delaware, BetCheckBet, and myself have already been your age and we know what bothers you because it bothered us at your age. We also remember the reckless behavior of our own youth. Finally, bizarre and grotesque accidents involving seniors make good media stories. The old guy who ploughed into the LA Farmers Market about 20 years ago and the senior in Florida who hit a cyclist and drove home with him lying on the hood are great stories but statistically insignificant. With regard to Crow Diddly, texting while driving, substance impaired driving and deliberate recklessness are areas where younger drivers particularly excel. If you think that is silly, I am not sure what I can say that wouldn't be insulting. Also, I guess you don't frequent public transportation much. I have my senior pass do you have a public transportation pass?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Druff, nowhere in your latest post do you mention the most dangerous person in the entire United States, the American male teenage driver. This is indisputable. The reason why drivers your age and younger seem to single out a low risk group like seniors is because of their experience with elderly drivers. They drive too slowly and that is annoying to young people with their "busy" schedules. What you don't seem to grasp is that Delaware, BetCheckBet, and myself have already been your age and we know what bothers you because it bothered us at your age. We also remember the reckless behavior of our own youth. Finally, bizarre and grotesque accidents involving seniors make good media stories. The old guy who ploughed into the LA Farmers Market about 20 years ago and the senior in Florida who hit a cyclist and drove home with him lying on the hood are great stories but statistically insignificant. With regard to Crow Diddly, texting while driving, substance impaired driving and deliberate recklessness are areas where younger drivers particularly excel. If you think that is silly, I am not sure what I can say that wouldn't be insulting. Also, I guess you don't frequent public transportation much. I have my senior pass do you have a public transportation pass?

---

But again, you can't test for bad behavior exhibited by drivers when they think nobody is watching. I am not trying to attack elderly drivers here, or say they are the cause of most deaths on the road. I realize that young male drivers are the most dangerous in that respect.

But again, this isn't an age competition.

I am only mentioning the elderly (the ones over 80) because they have a different situation going on.

The reckless young male drivers CAN drive well, but often choose not to. That's very hard to test for, so there's not much we can do, other than get tougher with suspending licenses for drivers caught being reckless.

The over-80 driver often WANTS to drive well, but physically can't. That CAN be tested very easily, which is why I advocate more frequent testing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

With regard to Crow Diddly, texting while driving, substance impaired driving and deliberate recklessness are areas where younger drivers particularly excel. If you think that is silly, I am not sure what I can say that wouldn't be insulting. Also, I guess you don't frequent public transportation much. I have my senior pass do you have a public transportation pass?

---

I don't think that's silly, I think its silly that you use such obvious examples and act like anyone was arguing otherwise. Of COURSE younger drivers do those things. Nobody's defending young drivers, that's why I thought your examples were silly. Problem with older drivers who have their skills go is they ar ebad ALL the time. They're a danger as soon as they pull out of their driveway. Once the senses and skills go, they're gone forever. They're not distracted for a minute, they're impaired the entire time, in some cases. These are things that are easily resolvable. Eye and hearing tests every few years would be a great start, with some sort of easy test that just ensures they are not completely out of touch with reality.

Yes, I do take public transportation. Yes, its full of old people. And yes, I was overly broad about elderly giving up their licenses. The people I described are probably a lot lower % of the whole than I gave you oldies credit for. I probably only notice the stubborn ones, as nobody tells stories about how grandma was so reasonable about giving up her car. Perception bias of sorts.

Sorry BetCheckBet, I'm a Patriots and Celtics fan and I assume that this is probably a hockey player like Hull, definitely not Orr or Howe. As for you Druff, your much beloved grandmother was no threat to anyone, a self- regulator in her own way. People who want to test elders say that that they want to be tough on all drivers but the catalyst for their ire is almost always the same whether they will admit it or not, interaction with slow driving seniors and stories about crazy accidents involving seniors. If anyone thinks that that I am going to make a survivor of Omaha Beach at Normandy or of the Bataan Death March, undergo the indignity of having their competence tested while some stoner punk drives around looking to score, they are as crazy as the depraved Sklansky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hutmaster

---

What's the big deal? Everybody in Kentucky and West Virginia does too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Sorry BetCheckBet, I'm a Patriots and Celtics fan and I assume that this is probably a hockey player like Hull, definitely not Orr or Howe. As for you Druff, your much beloved grandmother was no threat to anyone, a self- regulator in her own way. People who want to test elders say that that they want to be tough on all drivers but the catalyst for their ire is almost always the same whether they will admit it or not, interaction with slow driving seniors and stories about crazy accidents involving seniors. If anyone thinks that that I am going to make a survivor of Omaha Beach at Normandy or of the Bataan Death March, undergo the indignity of having their competence tested while some stoner punk drives around looking to score, they are as crazy as the depraved Sklansky.

---

Smoking pot makes you drive slower and more cautiously. There is a peer reviewed study that concluded cannabis users are less likely to have an accident while under the influence.

Whenever I smoke bud and drive, I never exceed the speed limits and I'm naturally extra cautious, when I'm straight I drive much faster and I'm less patient.
I do believe my reflexes are impaired to a slight degree, but slowing down more then compensates.

Just on a side-note. :)

Sorry SALTY AUS, it may be both a generational thing combined with my limited experience with marijuana in the 70's, but I don't think I can get behind the notion of marijuana as a safe driving product. Even in states where it is legal, I don't think you will ever be able to buy an ounce of Acapulco Gold at Pep Boys or Napa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnCommode

Sorry SALTY AUS, it may be both a generational thing combined with my limited experience with marijuana in the 70's, but I don't think I can get behind the notion of marijuana as a safe driving product. Even in states where it is legal, I don't think you will ever be able to buy an ounce of Acapulco Gold at Pep Boys or Napa.

---

First time I ever got smashed and hit the roads, I sat in the slow lane doing 80 KPH in a 100 KPH zone, hanging on to the handlebars of my bike thinking 'fuck I'm going fast'

Booze makes you feel confident and you drive fast and reckless, pot slows me down and I drive extra cautious without doubt. :)
Not that I make a habit of driving smashed, it's been at least ten years since I last did this.

Agree, would be a hard concept for many to accept and there certainly is a degree of impairment. And of course some folks would react differently.

Worth a read, I'm sure I could find other sites who disagree and are poorly researched, but this is rather well researched and a balanced argument in my opinion.

https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannab...driving7.shtml

interesting stat: 5 months of cannabis legalization in Colorado, traffic fatalities are down 9%. Basically,young people are getting stoned instead of getting drunk, and the drunk driving numbers are down accordingly. Beer sales are also down some amount, though this article didn't say how much.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19437417

"Rees said the main reason for the drop appears to be that medical-marijuana laws mean young people spend less time drinking and more time smoking cannabis. Legalization of medical marijuana, the researchers report, is associated with a 12-percent drop in the alcohol-related fatal-crash rate and a 19-percent decrease in the fatality rate of people in their 20s, according to the study."

If I had to choose between people smoking weed or people drinking, I would definitely go with weed since people rarely seem to get aggressive as compared with alcohol. My only concerns about weed would be issues like lung damage, weed as a gateway drug, impaired driving, and possible brain cell damage. Even with all of that, weed seems preferable to alcohol when you think about all the mayhem caused by alcohol abuse. It certainly should be legalized.