Bitcoin poker Seals with clubs

Druff feel free to move this.....discuss

Hope this isn't the same guy who wrote donkdown 3.0


Micon really comes off like a douchebag in this IMO

http://igaming.org/poker/news/high-h...lubs-software/



For a relatively new poker site, like SealsWithClubs, it’s not uncommon discover that new features and upgraded software are what the customer needs. The SealsWithClubs software development team, know as Seal Team 6, has been working hard to implement changes and upgrade. For now though, it seems like Bitcoin poker enthusiasts will have to wait till at least the end of Q1 before seeing some of the new features they’ve been waiting for.

SealsWithClubs chairman Bryan Micon responded to some questions regarding the new software and he explains the following.

Q1 Software Release Might Be Too Optimistic

“We’ve made a few major technological advancements recently, due to security issues. Because of that our new software development is not going as fast as I wanted it to,” Micon said as, from his personal standpoint, things aren’t moving as fast as he wants.

“I just want all the updates right now, and while that’s not possible, we are doing what is called a software sprint.”

“We are working on our software sprint during most of Q1. During the next eight weeks we’re trying to make far advancements in our software. Something like this never exactly goes according to plan when you have a poker site; at least for our group it has shown that this is very hard to plan,” Micon said.

“Our company is run by a group of guys so smart that, if we can pull off building the proper infrastructure, we’ll be able to quickly change this thing. Right now, and we have been for the last couple of months, we’re going ham on our infrastructure. It turns out that creating poker site infrastructure isn’t necessarily easy. I believe the team has done an amazing job at this while also performing major security upgrades as needed.”

The SealsWithClubs poker lobby, image courtesy of PokerScout.com

SwC A Real Contender For The US Facing Poker Market Space?

Online poker has recently been legalized in Nevada, New Jersey and Delaware giving US players hope in these dark online poker days. SealsWithClubs is available for players in the US, and we’ve looked at how they stack up these new and similarly sized websites that are likely to have a much bigger budget for software development and marketing, but have recently been launched.

The big advantage SealsWithClubs has is that it accepts players from all over the world. Playing for Bitcoins, or other crypto currencies, is not illegal in the United States and therefor SealsWithClubs operates in a unique market space. Despite accepting players from all over the world SealsWithClubs largely depends on US players when looking at their peak traffic time.

According to PokerScout, the online poker traffic news website, SealsWithClubs has a 110 seven day player average. The two sites that outrank SwC in the US are Party Poker New Jersey (220), WSOP.com New Jersey (200) while WSOP.com Nevada (110) shows similar numbers. For now SwC outranks Ultimate Poker Nevada (85) and Ultimate Poker New Jersey (16). Bear in mind that these sites don’t offer the option to play for Bitcoin. The next closest Bitcoin poker site in terms of traffic is PocketRocketsCasino with a 10-player seven-day average.

Because of these numbers it’s easy to overestimate the size of SealsWithClubs, even though a software upgrade would very positively affect their potential for 2014.

A reaffirming statistic for SealsWithClubs is the fact that after about 48-hours of downtime, because of a DDOS attack, they immediately regained their usual traffic. Peak traffic in the five days leading up the DDOS attack was 248 compared to 261 in the days following the attack.

An Anonymous Software Development Team

Little is known about the industry-leading Bitcoin poker site that, besides Micon and a few others, remains anonymous. During a recent AMA on Reddit, due to the password hack situation, a user called swc_dr_huh responded to SealsWithClub’s software priorities and we wondered if there might just be one person working on these new changes.

Micon responded to our question about who is working on implementing these changes. The man known as Dr. Huh stated that his priorities for SealsWithClubs were listed as following: Finish rewriting the site, server stability improvements, disconnect problems, late registration for tournaments and protocol changes. You can read his full post here.

“I can clarify some things about Dr. Huh. Just like Satoshi there are a handful of people who like to remain anonymous. It may seem like Dr. Huh is one person, but it’s better to see him as a group, led by one person. We call our software development team ‘Seal Team 6’ and Dr. Huh is a division within ST6,” Micon said.

“There are eight people in our software development team who work in a cloud office. The communication channels vary from day to day and it’s essentially a decentralized group.”

New Features

“We know the features that we need to build and we know what people want. The people want new games, Open Faced Chinese, late registration and a more robust software package to play Bitcoin poker on. We are getting there faster than we have been and we should pick up speed in the next eight weeks,” Micon said.

“Me personally, I’m most excited about late registration as that ups the prize pools. I’m a poker player and action junkie at heart, so I just want to see the biggest Bitcoin prize pools as possible and try to win them,” Micon said.

“Open Faced Chinese poker and Mixed Games are tied for number one when looking at things I want to happen on SealsWithClubs. We’re hoping to finish these within Q1, but we’re not sure if that’s going to happen for OFC. We might have to push that back to Q2, because of the series of security issues that had to come first and foremost, before even considering a new game. You have to make sure the ship doesn’t have any holes in it before you start sailing,” Micon said.

A SealsWithClubs table screenshot, courtesy of PokerSout.com

SealsWithClubs Remains Bitcoin Poker’s Best Option

Big poker websites become big, grow and maintain their level of success because of key aspects. Smoothly operating software is one of the main factors for the aforementioned, besides things like adequate customer support, a safe environment for your money and plenty of players to play against. For now SealsWithClubs keeps diligently working to become an even stronger force within the Bitcoin poker segment.

If SealsWithClubs can be a long-term rival of other US facing Bitcoin, and ultimately centralized currency clients, is a question waiting to be answered. We must wait and see what the new software brings, and for now SealsWithClubs has our praise.

All in all this website might seem like a quirky platform for poker nerds and crypto currency enthusiasts, but when it’s all said and done SealsWithClubs does things right.

Despite their struggles, cashing out has never been a problem, players have been correctly refunded during the DDOS attack and nobody was financially harmed because of the password hack last year. If SealsWithClubs releases its new software in a timely fashion, and lives up to the promises, it may very well beat the Party Poker New Jersey and WSOP.com’s daily peak traffic.

Micon is doing God's work over at Seals too bad he will be serving a prison sentence in the future.

How crazy would it be if Martha sold him out to the feds?

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Originally Posted by DRK Star

How crazy would it be if Martha sold him out to the feds?

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Phantom, any interest in being a stepfather?

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Originally Posted by DRK Star

How crazy would it be if Martha sold him out to the feds?

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Exactly why you never do anything shady when involved in a relationship or with someone who can sell you out the first chance they get. So much for micon being able to claim somewhere down the road that he was just some sort of spokesperson or marketing guy since they refer to him as the chairman

And seriously...he couldn't come up with something better than Seal Team Six?

Im not seeing the douche part here but I have a lot of exposure to dot com faggotry.

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According to PokerScout, the online poker traffic news website, SealsWithClubs has a 110 seven day player average. The two sites that outrank SwC in the US are Party Poker New Jersey (220), WSOP.com New Jersey (200) while WSOP.com Nevada (110) shows similar numbers. For now SwC outranks Ultimate Poker Nevada (85) and Ultimate Poker New Jersey (16). Bear in mind that these sites don’t offer the option to play for Bitcoin. The next closest Bitcoin poker site in terms of traffic is PocketRocketsCasino with a 10-player seven-day average.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

Micon is doing God's work over at Seals too bad he will be serving a prison sentence in the future.

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Dont be silly. Micon is already several steps ahead of the feds . As you may have noticed, he cleverly changed the seals domain from .com to .eu and word on the street is that he even has seals hosted outside the USA!!!
The feds must be shaking their heads wondering what else they can possible do to catch this mastermind.

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Originally Posted by lvpkr1009

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Originally Posted by DRK Star

How crazy would it be if Martha sold him out to the feds?

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Exactly why you never do anything shady when involved in a relationship or with someone who can sell you out the first chance they get. So much for micon being able to claim somewhere down the road that he was just some sort of spokesperson or marketing guy since they refer to him as the chairman

And seriously...he couldn't come up with something better than Seal Team Six?

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I hope Micon doesnt get fucked, as he is a good guy.

I just dont understand why he is so public about his involvement. The larger Seals gets the higher chance he has to get fucked. He is being super naive.

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Originally Posted by cmoney

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Originally Posted by lvpkr1009

Exactly why you never do anything shady when involved in a relationship or with someone who can sell you out the first chance they get. So much for micon being able to claim somewhere down the road that he was just some sort of spokesperson or marketing guy since they refer to him as the chairman

And seriously...he couldn't come up with something better than Seal Team Six?

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I hope Micon doesnt get fucked, as he is a good guy.

I just dont understand why he is so public about his involvement. The larger Seals gets the higher chance he has to get fucked. He is being super naive.

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Ya I wouldn't want to see anything bad happen to him either. He may be a lot of things but a bad guy he isn't. I'm surprised that he's as open as he is about some things but I think that sort of fits his persona as well

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Originally Posted by lvpkr1009

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Originally Posted by DRK Star

How crazy would it be if Martha sold him out to the feds?

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Exactly why you never do anything shady when involved in a relationship or with someone who can sell you out the first chance they get. So much for micon being able to claim somewhere down the road that he was just some sort of spokesperson or marketing guy since they refer to him as the chairman

And seriously...he couldn't come up with something better than Seal Team Six?

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Seal Team Six just shows you how deluded or clever he is. I suspect he has such high levels of self-denial that he thinks even if arrested he'll be able to skate away.

O and there is that story about Micon out in the desert with the car problems that suggests he isn't such a great guy. I seem to recall he phoned Druff who wasn't available to bail him out so he phoned Drexel who did sort him.

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Originally Posted by DRK Star

How crazy would it be if Martha told him that the baby really was Schoenfeld's then sold him out to the feds?

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/aef66eb62...db8lo1_400.gif

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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US recognizes Bitcoin as a currency.

Currency then falls under regulation of US laws including UIGEA

Micon goes to prison.

orrrr

you can just ignore the first step entirely and go with Step 2 and 3 if you think US would go the less formal route.

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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I don't hold any animosity towards him and wouldn't say I'm a hater but something tells me that if this was completely on the up and up as far as the govt was concerned someone smarter than micon would have figured out a way to do it a long time ago.

As for him personally I think he is pretty delusional to think that nothing is going to happen to him but there is a part of me that thinks he wants something to come down on him to make him into some sort of renegade hero who has to move out of the country and elude capture

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Originally Posted by lvpkr1009

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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I don't hold any animosity towards him and wouldn't say I'm a hater but something tells me that if this was completely on the up and up as far as the govt was concerned someone smarter than micon would have figured out a way to do it a long time ago.

As for him personally I think he is pretty delusional to think that nothing is going to happen to him but there is a part of me that thinks he wants something to come down on him to make him into some sort of renegade hero who has to move out of the country and elude capture

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I dont know the legalities of any of this but I dont think it was him who came up with this, I think someone else did and he was brought on board. In any event they were doing this when bitcoins were worth almost $0 and since then a bunch of sites have popped up. Micon was right place / right time and believed in it and he was right and as a result he hit the lottery

Micon is very vocal about his involvement but I think he will fly under the radar. A lot of times they come after the top guy of a business but hopefully for Micon he's paying his taxes because they could always get him on that since your always supposed to pay them even on things that are illegal and a some paper trail follows him.

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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Two critical flaws here:

1) The assumption that the government needs to be "in the right" to prosecute is incorrect and has cost many people everything they had.

2) The implied assumption that even when the government "loses" a prosecution based on money laundering, gambling, interstate wire fraud, that anything is left of the victors except smoldering ashes and hushed silence.

Thank you all for you insights , I think the thing the can make seals with clubs fall is gambling by minors.!
poker-btc-323

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Originally Posted by boguide

Thank you all for you insights , I think the thing the can make seals with clubs fall is gambling by minors.!
poker-btc-323

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:ban

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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1. The Wire Act makes it a federal offense to place or accept a wager over the telephone lines (including the internet) if the type of wager made is illegal in either the bettor's or the house's jurisdiction. There was a famous case where an American moved to some Caribbean island to set up an online book that took wagers from Americans. He returned to the US and got nabbed and spent a couple of years in the joint. All his activities were based outside the US and he even lived outside the US while running the book, but taking bets from Americans is enough. Actually, technically, taking bets from any person in any place where online gambling is illegal would have been enough. If he had taken bets from a North Korean (assuming online gambling is illegal there), he could have been prosecuted in the US just for that.

2. Any person who who is an owner or employee or knowingly provides material assistance, including advertising, software, hosting, recruiting customers, etc. for a gambling operation that violates the Wire Act is a conspirator and can be prosecuted under the Wire Act.

3. The UIGEA makes it illegal for any person in the US or any person acting on behalf of Americans to perform financial transaction services on behalf of anyone engaged in online gambling.

4. As with the Wire Act, any person who recruits another person or company to provide financial transaction services on behalf of an online gambling operation is a conspirator and can be prosecuted as such. It doesn't matter if the people ultimately providing the services (in this case, SWC and the bitcoin exchanges) are located in the US or not.

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

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Are you serious? Gambling with Bitcoins is even more egregious for the government than Neteller, given their anonymity. It's a money launderers paradise.

Are you suggesting a crime syndicate can now offer bitcoin gambling on sports-betting online and use your analogy justify it like 'pieces of bread'? You think the Feds are going to say, "yeah, that is a good point?" LOL

If you offer gambling vehicles online, and you profit of it, you have tremendous exposure.

And to use your example, yes, if you exchange the pieces of bread at the end of the night for real cash at your home game, yes it's illegal. Chances are nobody is going to fuck with your home game unless your neighbors start bitching due to traffic and noise.

The issue with SWC, is the Feds said time and again, don't do shit like this, the examples are plentiful. So to blatantly fuck with them and flaunt it, is going get you squarely on the radar. And to advertise yourself as the largest bitcoin poker site in the world is even worse.

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Originally Posted by hongkonger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sirens

It would be nice to see some hard examples on how Micon can possibly even be considered to be charged .
He is running a site that offers poker play via bitcoin deposit no bank account or credit card accepted or required or linked to a seals account in any way.
If he ran a home game and everyone bought in with bread and he rakes pieces of bread from the pot how is that any different?

Personally I don't care because what micon does or what happens in his life effects me 0% but I am sincerely curious because i see it said over and over that he may possibly get screwed but its hard to tell the haters from reality . So seeing legitimate points and not speculation would be interesting .

---

1. The Wire Act makes it a federal offense to place or accept a wager over the telephone lines (including the internet) if the type of wager made is illegal in either the bettor's or the house's jurisdiction. There was a famous case where an American moved to some Caribbean island to set up an online book that took wagers from Americans. He returned to the US and got nabbed and spent a couple of years in the joint. All his activities were based outside the US and he even lived outside the US while running the book, but taking bets from Americans is enough. Actually, technically, taking bets from any person in any place where online gambling is illegal would have been enough. If he had taken bets from a North Korean (assuming online gambling is illegal there), he could have been prosecuted in the US just for that.

2. Any person who who is an owner or employee or knowingly provides material assistance, including advertising, software, hosting, recruiting customers, etc. for a gambling operation that violates the Wire Act is a conspirator and can be prosecuted under the Wire Act.

3. The UIGEA makes it illegal for any person in the US or any person acting on behalf of Americans to perform financial transaction services on behalf of anyone engaged in online gambling.

4. As with the Wire Act, any person who recruits another person or company to provide financial transaction services on behalf of an online gambling operation is a conspirator and can be prosecuted as such. It doesn't matter if the people ultimately providing the services (in this case, SWC and the bitcoin exchanges) are located in the US or not.

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The Wire Act doesn't pertain to Poker. That was ruled on in Dec 2011 by the Department of Justice.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hongkonger

1. The Wire Act makes it a federal offense to place or accept a wager over the telephone lines (including the internet) if the type of wager made is illegal in either the bettor's or the house's jurisdiction. There was a famous case where an American moved to some Caribbean island to set up an online book that took wagers from Americans. He returned to the US and got nabbed and spent a couple of years in the joint. All his activities were based outside the US and he even lived outside the US while running the book, but taking bets from Americans is enough. Actually, technically, taking bets from any person in any place where online gambling is illegal would have been enough. If he had taken bets from a North Korean (assuming online gambling is illegal there), he could have been prosecuted in the US just for that.

2. Any person who who is an owner or employee or knowingly provides material assistance, including advertising, software, hosting, recruiting customers, etc. for a gambling operation that violates the Wire Act is a conspirator and can be prosecuted under the Wire Act.

3. The UIGEA makes it illegal for any person in the US or any person acting on behalf of Americans to perform financial transaction services on behalf of anyone engaged in online gambling.

4. As with the Wire Act, any person who recruits another person or company to provide financial transaction services on behalf of an online gambling operation is a conspirator and can be prosecuted as such. It doesn't matter if the people ultimately providing the services (in this case, SWC and the bitcoin exchanges) are located in the US or not.

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The Wire Act doesn't pertain to Poker. That was ruled on in Dec 2011 by the Department of Justice.

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It has never been "ruled" on. An opinion was issued by the DOJ. When there's a new administration, the DOJ's opinion may change, as it commonly does. It has never been tested in court.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for anyone on PFA to give Micon some credit.

Black Friday was never about "playing online" poker, it was a thinly veiled money grab and ultra conservative serving political maneuver by some massive faggots with their own bullshit agenda.

You guys really think anyone at the Fed gives a shit about SWC or "the chairman" and the ~ 400 people that play (mostly LOW stakes) for bitcoins on it??? Ummm, noooo.. they don't.

In addition to what Abrown said about the wire act.. there is a 0.0 chance that anything happens to Micon here (even with current legislation), nor should it.

SWC is about as far from a "money laundering haven" as Druff is chugging sodas, not exercising and declaring himself "healthy"..

:facepalm

The feds can easily come down on bitcoin gambling sites if they want, especially if these sites make it clear that they are intended to be a replacement for real-money gambling, and not just people gambling meaningless internet coins.

Headshot is correct that a small operation is much less likely to see prosecution than a large operation (same reason Merge hasn't been busted yet, while Pokerstars was), but he is incorrect to say that there's a "0.0 chance" a small operation will get busted.

If you disagree with this and think bitcoin gambling is 100% legal according to US law, then you would be a fool not to set up your own bitcoin casino/poker room. Software can be had for as little as $100 (seriously). If this were legal, I would be the first one setting something up like this myself.

You do have less to lose if you are already broke and can't be smacked with big fines if caught (well, you can get fined, but the government can't collect nonexistent money). I have too many assets to be taking a risk with something like this, but honestly I still wouldn't be risking it even if I were broke.

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Originally Posted by Headshot

I don't understand why it's so difficult for anyone on PFA to give Micon some credit.

Black Friday was never about "playing online" poker, it was a thinly veiled money grab and ultra conservative serving political maneuver by some massive faggots with their own bullshit agenda.

You guys really think anyone at the Fed gives a shit about SWC or "the chairman" and the ~ 400 people that play (mostly LOW stakes) for bitcoins on it??? Ummm, noooo.. they don't.

In addition to what Abrown said about the wire act.. there is a 0.0 chance that anything happens to Micon here (even with current legislation), nor should it.

SWC is about as far from a "money laundering haven" as Druff is chugging sodas, not exercising and declaring himself "healthy"..

:facepalm

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I give Micon credit for being in on the ground floor of two booms. Being in BTC when he originally got in was an incredible windfall. As far as being the face of SWC, I'd have to know how profitable it was for him personally to judge how smart/stupid it was. If he's made a million dollars or more from it, which wouldn't be unthinkable given when he came in, it's probably smart. It's pure risk/reward.

I think it unlikely he goes to jail, but he's the type they love to make an example of. Openly defiant, engaged heavily in the community, easily found, etc. Arresting him would make a splash in that world, and they don't have to convict to eat up every cent he's made. Simply making him defend himself for a good stretch against the feds would bankrupt him even if it results in nothing.

Given it appeared he was really struggling financially before he got involved, it's probably been a worthwhile risk, but I think there is a small risk. It just all depends how many coins he hung onto from the beginning when they were playing for full coins, and he was tossing out 5 and 10btc like candy. If he hung onto a few thousand coins then, hell yeah, it's been a great risk.

The one thing is, he seems to be excited at further expansion of btc, and loves seeing it spread into the legit world because he's a true believer. That would be the last thing I'd want in his spot. I'd prefer to stay under the radar and pile it up. Running a home game with 15 players is incredibly profitable. That room, even small, is printing money. If it goes mainstream, it would be good for his holdings, but bad if he doesn't step down from SWC.


Knowing what we know now, I would have rolled the dice in his spot. But I'm currently single, have no kids, and I'm much better equipped for doing a few in federal prison.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The feds can easily come down on bitcoin gambling sites if they want, especially if these sites make it clear that they are intended to be a replacement for real-money gambling, and not just people gambling meaningless internet coins.

Headshot is correct that a small operation is much less likely to see prosecution than a large operation (same reason Merge hasn't been busted yet, while Pokerstars was), but he is incorrect to say that there's a "0.0 chance" a small operation will get busted.

If you disagree with this and think bitcoin gambling is 100% legal according to US law, then you would be a fool not to set up your own bitcoin casino/poker room. Software can be had for as little as $100 (seriously). If this were legal, I would be the first one setting something up like this myself.

You do have less to lose if you are already broke and can't be smacked with big fines if caught (well, you can get fined, but the government can't collect nonexistent money). I have too many assets to be taking a risk with something like this, but honestly I still wouldn't be risking it even if I were broke.

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this ^^^^, and I would add that if you are a US citizen you would probably have to move offshore forever to have any chance of "getting away" with it.

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Originally Posted by BCR

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Originally Posted by Headshot

I don't understand why it's so difficult for anyone on PFA to give Micon some credit.

Black Friday was never about "playing online" poker, it was a thinly veiled money grab and ultra conservative serving political maneuver by some massive faggots with their own bullshit agenda.

You guys really think anyone at the Fed gives a shit about SWC or "the chairman" and the ~ 400 people that play (mostly LOW stakes) for bitcoins on it??? Ummm, noooo.. they don't.

In addition to what Abrown said about the wire act.. there is a 0.0 chance that anything happens to Micon here (even with current legislation), nor should it.

SWC is about as far from a "money laundering haven" as Druff is chugging sodas, not exercising and declaring himself "healthy"..

:facepalm

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I give Micon credit for being in on the ground floor of two booms. Being in BTC when he originally got in was an incredible windfall. As far as being the face of SWC, I'd have to know how profitable it was for him personally to judge how smart/stupid it was. If he's made a million dollars or more from it, which wouldn't be unthinkable given when he came in, it's probably smart. It's pure risk/reward.

I think it unlikely he goes to jail, but he's the type they love to make an example of. Openly defiant, engaged heavily in the community, easily found, etc. Arresting him would make a splash in that world, and they don't have to convict to eat up every cent he's made. Simply making him defend himself for a good stretch against the feds would bankrupt him even if it results in nothing.

Given it appeared he was really struggling financially before he got involved, it's probably been a worthwhile risk, but I think there is a small risk. It just all depends how many coins he hung onto from the beginning when they were playing for full coins, and he was tossing out 5 and 10btc like candy. If he hung onto a few thousand coins then, hell yeah, it's been a great risk.

The one thing is, he seems to be excited at further expansion of btc, and loves seeing it spread into the legit world because he's a true believer. That would be the last thing I'd want in his spot. I'd prefer to stay under the radar and pile it up. Running a home game with 15 players is incredibly profitable. That room, even small, is printing money. If it goes mainstream, it would be good for his holdings, but bad if he doesn't step down from SWC.


Knowing what we know now, I would have rolled the dice in his spot. But I'm currently single, have no kids, and I'm much better equipped for doing a few in federal prison.

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Why are you better equipped to do a few years in federal prison? You have a very flexible sphincter? Already HIV+? Member of a skinhead gang that will protect you?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The feds can easily come down on bitcoin gambling sites if they want, especially if these sites make it clear that they are intended to be a replacement for real-money gambling, and not just people gambling meaningless internet coins.

Headshot is correct that a small operation is much less likely to see prosecution than a large operation (same reason Merge hasn't been busted yet, while Pokerstars was), but he is incorrect to say that there's a "0.0 chance" a small operation will get busted.

If you disagree with this and think bitcoin gambling is 100% legal according to US law, then you would be a fool not to set up your own bitcoin casino/poker room. Software can be had for as little as $100 (seriously). If this were legal, I would be the first one setting something up like this myself.

You do have less to lose if you are already broke and can't be smacked with big fines if caught (well, you can get fined, but the government can't collect nonexistent money). I have too many assets to be taking a risk with something like this, but honestly I still wouldn't be risking it even if I were broke.

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This. Just seems dumb

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Originally Posted by BCR

Knowing what we know now, I would have rolled the dice in his spot.

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I was given the opportunity to roll these dice. I didnt because I knew what it would take to do it right, and I also knew that there was a chance that even if I did it right, Id still be blued screwed and tattooed.

The minimum commitment necessary to engage in that gambit is to renounce American citizenship and relocate to someplace that turns a blind eye to online gambling. GG family, GG friends, hello Costa Rica. And if Costa Rica caves and changes its mind about being a haven for online gambling bullshit?

Fucked.

For.

Life.


Im sorry but I just dont see the equity in being a D- level poker celebrity for a site that's offsetting its online poker risk by embracing a currency whose principle market participants are drug dealers, spammers, and identity thieves, unless of course you're totally unqualified to hold down legit employme-..... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I could have easily started a bitcoin poker site. I bought the software for $100 and had money set aside for marketing.

But I didn't want to give up all of my mansions, yachts, luxury cars and supermodels. It just wasn't worth the risk.

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Why are you better equipped to do a few years in federal prison? You have a very flexible sphincter? Already HIV+? Member of a skinhead gang that will protect you?

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Nah, that's more state prison.

Micon seems like the type who can't sit still. I think I'd fare better at keeping my head down and dealing with the boredom. I think almost anyone would deal with it better than Micon.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCR

Knowing what we know now, I would have rolled the dice in his spot.

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I was given the opportunity to roll these dice. I didnt because I knew what it would take to do it right, and I also knew that there was a chance that even if I did it right, Id still be blued screwed and tattooed.

The minimum commitment necessary to engage in that gambit is to renounce American citizenship and relocate to someplace that turns a blind eye to online gambling. GG family, GG friends, hello Costa Rica. And if Costa Rica caves and changes its mind about being a haven for online gambling bullshit?

Fucked.

For.

Life.


Im sorry but I just dont see the equity in being a D- level poker celebrity for a site that's offsetting its online poker risk by embracing a currency whose principle market participants are drug dealers, spammers, and identity thieves, unless of course you're totally unqualified to hold down legit employme-..... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

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Interesting. Yeah, I guess I'm looking at it as something that he has like a 95% chance of skating, 4% chance you end up doing 18 months, 1% that scenario. I guess when I say with what we know now, I'm thinking more of being in early on btc, but we'd all do that now. I think he needed the money more than he liked the attention, but he likes the latter a lot too.


I just wish the concept of btc would have been brought to the community by someone other than Micon. If someone like Druff or a host of others brought it up, said they thought there was a chance it could blow up, it would have been something that a lot of people threw a $1000 at and if it went to $0, oh well.

I listened to Micon's enthusiasm, but I don't know shit about cyber security. He also thought his wii videos while peeing would go viral. He's likeable, but real hard to take serious.

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Originally Posted by BCR

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Why are you better equipped to do a few years in federal prison? You have a very flexible sphincter? Already HIV+? Member of a skinhead gang that will protect you?

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Nah, that's more state prison.

Micon seems like the type who can't sit still. I think I'd fare better at keeping my head down and dealing with the boredom. I think almost anyone would deal with it better than Micon.

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Micon is also a Jew, so he's shit out of luck trying to get in with the Aryan Brotherhood. He couldn't even lie and say he wasn't Jewish, his nose gives it away. He'd probably have to become some black guys bitch in return for protection.

If Micon did go to prison for this it would more than likely be a country club atmosphere like the one Victor Conte and that guy that was on the radio show went to. It's white collar crime. He isn't going to be amongst rapist and murderers. There's no fucking way.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

Micon is doing God's work over at Seals too bad he will be serving a prison sentence in the future.

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Bump

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Originally Posted by Pooh

If Micon did go to prison for this it would more than likely be a country club atmosphere like the one Victor Conte and that guy that was on the radio show went to. It's white collar crime. He isn't going to be amongst rapist and murderers. There's no fucking way.

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you usually need some pull to do the federal country club prison time, like a celebrity, judge or politician.

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Originally Posted by Tellafriend

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Originally Posted by Pooh

If Micon did go to prison for this it would more than likely be a country club atmosphere like the one Victor Conte and that guy that was on the radio show went to. It's white collar crime. He isn't going to be amongst rapist and murderers. There's no fucking way.

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you usually need some pull to do the federal country club prison time, like a celebrity, judge or politician.

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Exactly, he is going to State prison and somewhere in Nevada.

He will be in general population, minimum security, with the likes of deadbeat dads who don't pay child support, DUI offenders etc...

Their is always them one or two crazy motherfuckers peppered in there also though. So its never easy or just a walk when having to spend months upon months in a dormitory with the same fuckign men day in and day out. Their is some husle goin' on and usually it is also the quickest was to get your ass kicked when doing time, GAMBLING...

Micon will have plenty of commissary so he shouldn't worry. Just needs to play top top LOL!