I could not even imagine blinds that big let alone the pots. Give us some stories. Let's move on from politics. Give us some stories, biggest pots, biggest sweats, biggest wins, monumental defeats. You have to have some stories.
I could not even imagine blinds that big let alone the pots. Give us some stories. Let's move on from politics. Give us some stories, biggest pots, biggest sweats, biggest wins, monumental defeats. You have to have some stories.
Druff- Any good hotel stories?
It’s limit hold ‘em. Pushing small edges to get that one more big bet per hour just isn’t that exciting. I would like his input on shorthand limit play though, because I’m always looking to improve in that area. One of the reasons I usually play 20/40 instead of 40/80 is because the 20/40 games are usually full.
What was his BB rate at 300-600…just 2BB an hour is $2.4M per year if a full time job.
if someone handed me a tax form at the cage i genuinely think id have a nervous breakdown.
$300 - $600 is salty regardless of the game. I would assume you need to sit down with $50,000. The most I ever sat down with was $10,000 and I was a bit jittery at that level to be honest. Now that was NL, so its even worse, when you have stacks 4X your size next to you. I guess you can play stakes that size if you have $100K in a paper bag at your feet, but if you don't you simply can't sit down. I would like to hear some stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
ill tell you a funny story about how google execs killed NL holdem in the bay area.
theres a casino called lucky chances which was one of the only casinos with a legitimate high stakes NL game; they spread 10/20 NL and the game was pretty much always running. now they also spread 1/2 NL and 2/5 NL and 1/2 was fishy of course but 2/5 was filled with 2+2 regs; it was the grownup table. and people would grind for _years_ to get rolled enough to get from 1/2 to the 2/5 game. and then they would grind even longer to get enough to buy into the 10/20 game.
if memory serves, min buyin on 2/5 was $200 and min buyin on 10/20 was $1000 i want to say? and up until the mid 90s it was filled with exactly who you would expect leather assed asian regs who have been gambling since they were 4 and either couldnt or wouldnt speak english.
and then the google regs started to show up. they would sit with a 10k chip in front of them, 2 more in their right pocket, 3 more in their left. and they would play any two fucking cards because they were just there to fuck around and have fun and also they had math phds and knew their meta.
so imagine youre a 2/5 reg. youve saved up 6 grand. its your whole roll. what are you going to do, NOT sit in that game?
and so they did. like moths to fucking flames. and they all did the exact same system; wait for AK-AA-KK-QQ-JJ-TT, isolate the google engineer, and get it all in the middle.
seems like a great system but heres a funny thing about math phds with bottomless bankrolls; they dont care about the money, they want blood and souls.
so they would snap call all ins with any 2. and lose. and reload, having their mark covered. and snap call again. and they would keep fucking snap calling until they felted their mark and sent them back to 1/2.
and please understand; they didnt do it once or twice. they did it so often that the 2/5 NL game basically stopped running because all the regs moved up and went broke.
and that was that. not sure if the game ever recovered.
anyway when elon was larping as some sort of sharp, talking about HoW To BEaT No-LImIt, thats literally what he was referring to; the google dorks who beat the bay area no limit games to literal death.
Druff, tell us about O’Neal Longson.
Don't really know much about him. Played with him a few times in the 2000s, but not really much to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I quit playing these type of stakes after the 2000s were over.
Was just too stressful. Some people are built for routine single-session swings of mid-5-figures. I'm not. I felt like continuing to play such limits was not good for my mental health, so I dropped down to the upper-middle stakes instead.
The biggest single session live loss I've had was $82k at Commerce 600-1200 in early 2007. The biggest single session online loss I had was $87k in late 2005, on Interpoker, at 300-600. These were limit holdem, in case anyone is wondering.
The live $82k loss was part of an extended downswing in the first 3 months of 2007. By the end of March, I was down $300k for the year, and very depressed. My roll was not in danger, but I never had any losing streak like it before, at least not in terms of money.
I then set out to make it back at midstakes online, heavily grinding Absolute Poker and Cake Poker. I was the biggest winner in both of those games, and got the $300k back by early August, playing no higher than 50-100. Just as I was feeling great, I ran into a seemingly unbeatable fish on Absolute named GRAYCAT, and I couldn't figure it out. Eventually I did figure it out -- he was a superuser -- and I made the first post accusing Absolute Poker of being crooked, which turned out to be correct, and kicked off that huge scandal.
At 400-800 at Commerce, I had the worst first orbit possible. After waiting 2 hours to get in the game, I proceeded to sit down and get dealt 4 pairs in the first 9 hands, all of which flopped sets on relatively safe-looking boards. I lost all 4, and was $16k down by the time it was my blind again.
Want a happier story? Okay.
In 2006, I received a call that Neverwin and "some kid" were playing 400-800 3-handed at Venetian, with what appeared to be a fish. Venetian never spread limit holdem, so I knew this had to be a special game built around that fish, so I rushed down. Neverwin was very surprised to see me, and the kid introduced himself as Mark, and said he was 21. The fish was a middle-aged dude named Paul Horn. He was extremely obnoxious and boorish. I didn't care for him at all, but he was playing horribly, drinking heavily, and at one point was demanding someone find him cocaine so he could sniff it off the table (and was serious). He even asked the floor people if they could get him cocaine, which they laughed off, but again he wasn't joking. I ended up winning about $12k in that game by the time Paul quit (and the game broke). Not wonderful for shorthanded 400-800 with a fish in it, but better than losing. On the way to the cage, Mark told me that his last name was Newhouse -- then a complete unknown in the game. Neverwin later told me that they were at Venetian at Paul's request to "get away from all the nits" at Bellagio, and that he was a little bit annoyed that I was tipped off about the game. Not sure how Newhouse got into it. What happened to Paul Horn? He eventually left poker, and some people told me he stiffed people for 6 figures, who were stupid enough to let him play them on credit. He then stiffed his business partner, which was a deadly mistake. The partner murdered him in 2011, and was convicted of it.
Take a ride on the west coast kick
https://youtu.be/KsYqIJqlPNc
Bonus content
Phil Hellmuth gets crushed at $300/$600 on UB, tilts in chat: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...-tilts-in-chat
First saw Longson at the 92 WSOP. High stakes player from Salt Lake City. He was tough as nails in the games. But they say he holds the record for being hijacked the most times. He was so well known by the robbers that they would say "Stick 'em up, Neil!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffDon't really know much about him. Played with him a few times in the 2000s, but not really much to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmFirst saw Longson at the 92 WSOP. High stakes player from Salt Lake City. He was tough as nails in the games. But they say he holds the record for being hijacked the most times. He was so well known by the robbers that they would say "Stick 'em up, Neil!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
no one asked, no one cares.
Such a memory for men. How did he stack his chips?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmFirst saw Longson at the 92 WSOP. High stakes player from Salt Lake City. He was tough as nails in the games. But they say he holds the record for being hijacked the most times. He was so well known by the robbers that they would say "Stick 'em up, Neil!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
He tossed Mickey a $25 food voucher since he saw him slumming around the slots looking for coins on the floor and behind machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy JoeSuch a memory for men. How did he stack his chips?Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
ive heard of lot lizards but mickey might be the worlds first slot lizard.
That is some crazy shit. Maybe 5% of professional poker players lead a decent and in some cases a successful life, the other 95% it's nothing but chaos, turmoil, indebtedness, and in some cases a shortened life. I remember years ago when I was playing regularly I saw Erick Lindgren on TV, he won a tourney, had a hot girlfriend and just living the life. Anyone watching would be like what a life. Then I read 10 years later he filed for bankruptcy owing $12M. When I walked away from the game finally in 2010, I was in Atlantic City. I was in a $2-$4 NL, and you can only imagine the life losers that ring attracted at those limits. Just looking at the ring, it was just fail and half the people stunk, the guy's breath next to me literally would knock you over. I am like WTF am I doing here at 2am? I still go into casinos time to time and play for a few hours, maybe twice a year. I never play by the proverbial rules anymore and go in all the time and just piss everyone off. Last time I sat down with $1,000 and walked with nearly $4,000 and I could hear people talk when I left that guy has no idea how to play, lol. As I walked out with most of their stacks. I thought one guy was going to lunge at me when I cracked his KK with QJ, he was exacerbated and physically ill when I got the third Q on the river. hehehehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I sort of played live poker with Druff once years and years ago. It was 40-80 LHE at Commerce. He sat down and was on his cell phone the entire time, around 30 minutes, and then got called to whatever bigger game he was waiting for. I was on the other side of the table, and between that and him being on the phone never really found a moment to say hi.
This was waaaay back in NWP days. I was mostly a lurker back then who barely ever posted, and if I did it was all poker related. I couldn't even tell you what my SN was; don't remember.
FWIW, my biggest LHE win was $14K in the 60-120 LHE. I wasn't a regular in that game, but took shots from time to time.
Someone mentioned tax forms. My first experience with tax forms was when I bought in $10K across 40-80 and 60-120 in one session. I was re-buying $1k to $2k at a time (handing money to chip runners to get me chips), and I didn't even realize but someone was keeping track; and when I crossed $10k they brought a tax form to the table with the chips. Obviously I wasn't in a great mood, so it was pretty annoying experience to go through. FWIW, I made a bit of a comeback so only ended up losing $6k total that day.
Druff is obsessed with his phone (and wonders why he suffers bouts of depression lol). His table observation skills could use improvement. But that’s how all those internet players grew up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
I wrote it confusing, but he was actually talking on the phone with someone. This was long enough ago, good chance it wasn't even a smartphone.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayjamiDruff is obsessed with his phone (and wonders why he suffers bouts of depression lol). His table observation skills could use improvement. But that’s how all those internet players grew up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
That is awful, reminds me of the guy in a nice restaurant talking on his phone and ruining the table experience for everyone around in the surrounding tables just trying to enjoy themselves. Hopefully Druff has learned what terrible and ghetto behavior that is. I mean are you so fucking self important you cannot get up and go into a quiet area and make your call and return? I was at an Applebees a few weeks ago sitting at the bar for lunch and some Indian guy decided to face time at the bar with his wife, give me a fucking break, that accent blaring on the phone. I made it clear when I asked for my check I would stay longer but I am sick of hearing about this fucking guys conversation with his wife. He heard it and looked up and went right back to his face time. It's just unreal the lack of class people have nowadays. Like I said hopefully Druff has learned just how obnoxious that conduct is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgullThat is awful, reminds me of the guy in a nice restaurant talking on his phone and ruining the table experience for everyone around in the surrounding tables just trying to enjoy themselves. Hopefully Druff has learned what terrible and ghetto behavior that is. I mean are you so fucking self important you cannot get up and go into a quiet area and make your call and return? I was at an Applebees a few weeks ago sitting at the bar for lunch and some Indian guy decided to face time at the bar with his wife, give me a fucking break, that accent blaring on the phone. I made it clear when I asked for my check I would stay longer but I am sick of hearing about this fucking guys conversation with his wife. He heard it and looked up and went right back to his face time. It's just unreal the lack of class people have nowadays. Like I said hopefully Druff has learned just how obnoxious that conduct is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
in druffs defense it was probably desertrunner demanding he moderate another post.
Live poker is very slow. Once you get a feel for the table, being on your phone is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayjamiDruff is obsessed with his phone (and wonders why he suffers bouts of depression lol). His table observation skills could use improvement. But that’s how all those internet players grew up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalam
Some days I play live and feel social, and almost never use my phone. Other days I just want to play and not talk to anyone, so I'm on it constantly once I'm there.
In the Kalam situation, I must have been on an important call, or I would have hung up with the person after a short time. I wonder who it was.
Also, in limit holdem there's less to worry about missing, as each decision is of a fixed bet size. I find it more important to observe the players closely when I play an NL tournament, or even NL cash.
I told Kalam when he DM'd me later (I think weeks or months later) that he should have just interrupted what I was doing and said hello. Would have been happy to meet a longtime PFA member no matter what I was doing.
BTW, my PFA hat got me a regular radio listener at a Commerce limit game in 2019. A guy next to me asked about the Poker Fraud Alert on my hat, so I told him. A few months later he saw me at Commerce again, and he told me that he checked out the show, loved it, and never misses an episode. He still listens to this day. The way the show gets most of its new listeners is from either search in podcast apps, or people who find it because I'm covering a large controversy.
I don't know what I did back then, but these days I will jump up from the table and step away when on the phone. At worst, I'll put the person on hold while I play hands, but otherwise jump up between them and move away, so nobody has to be stuck listening to me.
I did this a few months ago while at Commerce -- when it was an important call, but someone who knows me personally, so they could wait during the (short lasting) limit hands I was playing.
Obviously if on with a business I have to just leave the table.
Oh, this phone story reminds me of another game from 2021. I know I've told this story before, but I'll add an additional detail I don't think I posted.
I was playing 40-80 at Bellagio in June 2021. WSOP was not going because it was delayed that year, due to COVID. I ran awful, and was down $4k. Then the game broke. I was about to dejectedly walk back to my room, but then a young dude showed up and asked if I wanted to play heads up. I had no idea who he was, but figured my heads up skill had to be at least equal to or better than his, so I said yes.
He then said, "Okay, great! I'm going to drink a lot, so I hope you don't mind!"
I thought to myself, "Oh shit. It's probably a fake drunk who probably holds his liquor well, and is going to feign drunkenness in order to throw me off with judging his play."
The only reason we were able to get this table started was because the dealer hadn't left yet. So we got going, and indeed, the guy ordered drinks and was downing them. However... his playstlye was NOT aggressive at all. In fact, he was overly tight. He wasn't bad, just very tight. At this rate, I could probably step up the aggression and grind him down for a small profit, but there was no way I was going to get $4k back! He just didn't like putting chips in the pot. Totally NOT what I expected. He said he was from Arizona, by the way.
About 2 hours passed. We were close to even with each other the entire way. He had knocked back SO many drinks, but nothing changed. Still tight. Still softspoken and polite. It was like he was drinking water.
:wtf2
Then, just as I was considering giving up and calling it a day (it was like 5am and I was tired), suddenly a switch flipped in the guy's brain and he completely changed. He started slurring his words, playing hyper aggro, and having trouble handling the chips. At first I thought it was an act, but no. For whatever reason, he had huge alcohol tolerance to a point, and then suddenly the dam broke.
About 15 minutes later, a young Asian guy showed up. He asked if he could join us, and I said sure. The Arizona guy asked, "Want me to order you a drink?", and the Asian guy responded, "No thanks, I don't drink."
I asked the Asian guy where he was from, he said LA. I thought, "Hmmm.. never seen him before, but maybe we play at different times of the day or something."
I assumed he would be good, and probably compete for Drunk Guy's money.
Nope!
The Asian guy was an absolute maniac. He was auto-raising preflop with almost any two cards, and then doing the same on the flop, even if he missed. The drunk guy got inspired by this and started doing the same. Were they secret friends colluding? No. They weren't doing it in a way to knock me out of hands, especially once it was clear I was wise to it and kept raising them back whenever I had something (which I realized very quickly). I kid you not when I tell you that, on some boards, I was 5-betting the flop with bottom pair -- and winning without improving.
But I wasn't just quietly doing this and taking their money. I was loud and boisterous like they were, and forcing myself to smile and laugh when I would take bad beats on the river in huge pots. I would also encourage action by announcing things preflop like, "Okay I know I'm getting this one. I'm like 95% sure I'm raising the flop no matter what you guys do", and then would follow up and do so (and not just when I have obvious hands to do that with, like KK).
Anyway, they were loving it. The Asian guy was an action junkie. The drunk guy loved all the craziness and the banter. And while I took some awful beats for a lot of money, overall I was slowly crushing the game, playing the role of a fellow maniac, but timing my aggression smartly based upon board texture and the playstyle of these two guys. I got my $4k back, and right around then an old guy showed up -- a tight tourist who was used to waking up early, and came down to find a game. He was absolutely shocked by the game, and didn't know how to handle it. I could tell he was pissed off.
But here's where the phone came in. A Bellagio regular showed up, and sat in the game as the 5th player. He also shows up early. I won't name him, because he's otherwise a fairly nice guy and well liked there. But he's very tight and nitty and is sometimes a downer to action games like these. And that's what he was doing here. Well, the drunk guy was having none of this, and was in worse condition than ever. He was sleeping in between hands, but very boisterous in the hands he played. He even had a lot of his cash mixed in with the lettuce in the salad he ordered -- something I took a picture of and kept laughing at during the game. He kept taunting and mocking this nitty reg, and the reg was just taking it. Well, then the reg got on a LONG phone call, trying to help some family friend of his -- an old woman named Trish. I guess Trish was in a nursing home or something, and there was some issue there. The reg made no effort to speak softly or leave the table. The drunk guy started yelling in the background about "Trish" in order to annoy him, and then I joined in, though much less obnoxiously. When the three of us were in a hand together, with this guy STILL on the phone, I said something like, "Come on... win this one for Trish! Don't let her down!"
Anyway, shortly after that, the game became 9-handed, plus the drunk guy was so tired that his action dried up, and the Asian guy busted and left.
Honestly was one of the more fun live sessions I've had in my life. And I ended up winning almost $2k after being down $4k, which at 40-80 live, is quite tough to do.
Whatever happened of putting your phone on silent and once an hour check it to see if you got a text or missed call, calmly get up and take care of your business in a private area? It just amazes me the lack of social awareness and general courtesy people have nowadays. I was on a plane a few months ago, and we got stuck on the tarmac for like an hour. Everyone was pissed, it was hot and you could have heard a pin drop. Then a lady with a booming voice hops on the phone and proceeds to have a 20 minute conversation that the whole plane could hear. The lady next to me said 'you can't buy class', she was right. Of course when she got up when the flight finally landed, it was what you expected, big fat ass, nose ring, etc.. I have never understood what is so important in people's lives they decide its ok to be fucking obnoxious to everyone else. No offense Druff but if you are constantly bouncing up and down from poker tables taking calls, you are far too important and busy to sit with commoners. WTF is going on in your life you can't play three hours of uninterrupted poker?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
And one more thing to you uncourteous shitbags out there. When you are in a restaurant, or a relatively quiet place with others, no its not fucking ok to light up a you tube video on your phone, blaring a max volume. WTF is the matter with you? I think I was born in the wrong era, I should have been born in the 1800s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBG2IxzEn7g
The existence of PFA is contigent on social skill deficiency, Perth brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgull
Druff has never talked about his own poker playing and I’m enjoying it far more than the poker twitter drama.
More sir
All I’m saying is that your WSOP results might be a little better if your kept your head up a little more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffLive poker is very slow. Once you get a feel for the table, being on your phone is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayjami
Some days I play live and feel social, and almost never use my phone. Other days I just want to play and not talk to anyone, so I'm on it constantly once I'm there.
In the Kalam situation, I must have been on an important call, or I would have hung up with the person after a short time. I wonder who it was.
Also, in limit holdem there's less to worry about missing, as each decision is of a fixed bet size. I find it more important to observe the players closely when I play an NL tournament, or even NL cash.
I told Kalam when he DM'd me later (I think weeks or months later) that he should have just interrupted what I was doing and said hello. Would have been happy to meet a longtime PFA member no matter what I was doing.
BTW, my PFA hat got me a regular radio listener at a Commerce limit game in 2019. A guy next to me asked about the Poker Fraud Alert on my hat, so I told him. A few months later he saw me at Commerce again, and he told me that he checked out the show, loved it, and never misses an episode. He still listens to this day. The way the show gets most of its new listeners is from either search in podcast apps, or people who find it because I'm covering a large controversy.
He should stick to the Seniors and Main Event.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayjamiAll I’m saying is that your WSOP results might be a little better if your kept your head up a little more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff