Required TB test for parent volunteers at schools -- stupid or sensible?

I received this e-mail from a PFA Radio listener:

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Hi Druff,

Would like you to settle an argument I had with a friend. I am a volunteer in my son's elementary school classroom. I spend 30 minutes there every 2 weeks during a lab, so my exposure to the kids is obviously minimal.

I was very surprised that they wouldn't let me do this until I either took a tuberculosis test, or had my doctor sign off that I wasn't at risk for TB. I had to see the doctor at my own trouble and expense in order to do this. They would not budge and forced me to do this if I wanted to volunteer, so I sucked it up and wasted 2 hours going to the doctor, waiting, and seeing him, just to get that dumb paper signed that I'm not a risk. Also cost me $40 copay.

I was telling my friend that TB is very rare so this is stupid. My friend lectured me that a single doctor's visit is a small price to pay to keep our kids safe from such a disease, and he called me selfish. What do you think?

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Here is my take on it:

There were 9,025 new TB cases in 2018. This means that roughly 1 in 36,000 people in the US will get TB each year. Obviously quite rare! To put this in context, even if there are 100 parent volunteers in your school, one of those volunteers would be infected with TB approximately once every 360 years! Even if this fluke occurred, the number would be far less than once every 360 years, because those affected with contagious ("active") TB would have symptoms, and would likely not expose themselves to the children.

And even if you want to take a "better safe than sorry" approach, the problem is that these kids will be exposed to TONS of adults outside of school, none of whom will have taken TB tests. So unless you want to isolate your kids from all adults outside of school (which is obviously impossible), this TB test is virtually useless.

The school is just covering their ass legally, and placing the burden upon you.

Do you guys agree with me?

The TB test is super easy and quick to take. Being safe is better.

Also, in So Cal specifically due to the high number of homeless people and un-vaccinated illegal immigrants all the medieval diseases are making a comeback.

Although the media likes to spin their false narrative that it is due to anti-vaxxer parents. I love it when the local media makes a big deal about some disease outbreak, blames it on anti-vaxxers, but if you actually dig deep it is normally immigrants from 3rd world countries bringing the disease with them.

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Originally Posted by verminaard

Also, in So Cal specifically due to the high number of homeless people and un-vaccinated illegal immigrants all the medieval diseases are making a comeback.

Although the media likes to spin their false narrative that it is due to anti-vaxxer parents. I love it when the local media makes a big deal about some disease outbreak, blames it on anti-vaxxers, but if you actually dig deep it is normally immigrants from 3rd world countries bringing the disease with them.

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Not to get too off topic, but California is a fucking mess right now, and spiraling out of control quickly.

I just heard today that this is the 7th year in a row more people have moved out of California than in.

Your state government has really failed you. Sad.

Was such a beautiful place. They really do need to break it up into 5 smaller states and start over.

Bro, stop being a nudnik and just do what they ask of you Todd.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

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Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale

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Originally Posted by verminaard

Also, in So Cal specifically due to the high number of homeless people and un-vaccinated illegal immigrants all the medieval diseases are making a comeback.

Although the media likes to spin their false narrative that it is due to anti-vaxxer parents. I love it when the local media makes a big deal about some disease outbreak, blames it on anti-vaxxers, but if you actually dig deep it is normally immigrants from 3rd world countries bringing the disease with them.

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Not to get too off topic, but California is a fucking mess right now, and spiraling out of control quickly.

I just heard today that this is the 7th year in a row more non homeless natural born residents (code for whites people) people have moved out of California than in.

Your state government has really failed you. Sad.

Was such a beautiful place. They really do need to break it up into 5 smaller states and start over.

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The population of California definitely isn’t shrinking. Whatever number you are using is way under estimating the number of recent migrants and homeless. California is basically becoming a 3rd world country. Rich elites in guarded communities surrounded by the poor masses with the middle class being squeezed out. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by OSA

Bro, stop being a nudnik and just do what they ask of you Todd.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

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This isn't about me.

However, I'm wondering what you (and the other 3 people who voted yes) believe is gained by a TB test.

- 1 in 36,000 people get TB. Extremely rare.

- The symptoms are obvious when it's contagious, so any sensible parent would stay away anyway (plus school staff would notice the sick parent and send them home immediately).

- The kids will encounter a shitload of people outside of school who aren't TB tested, so why bother testing a single parent who barely sees them? It is impossible to raise a kid without massive exposure to non-TB-tested people, unless you never let them leave the house.

I'm surprised someone like you, who tries to find an angle with everything, is advocating the "be a mindless sheep" approach.

Not that the parent here has much choice, but I agree that the school is being ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

The TB test is super easy and quick to take. Being safe is better.

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Nothing is "super easy" if it involves seeing a doctor. It means driving to an appointment, waiting, seeing the doctor, and driving back. Plus forking over the co-pay.

This is unnecessary and a perfect example of burdensome precaution with zero gain from it.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by OSA

Bro, stop being a nudnik and just do what they ask of you Todd.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

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This isn't about me.

However, I'm wondering what you (and the other 3 people who voted yes) believe is gained by a TB test.

- 1 in 36,000 people get TB. Extremely rare.

- The symptoms are obvious when it's contagious, so any sensible parent would stay away anyway (plus school staff would notice the sick parent and send them home immediately).

- The kids will encounter a shitload of people outside of school who aren't TB tested, so why bother testing a single parent who barely sees them? It is impossible to raise a kid without massive exposure to non-TB-tested people, unless you never let them leave the house.

I'm surprised someone like you, who tries to find an angle with everything, is advocating the "be a mindless sheep" approach.

Not that the parent here has much choice, but I agree that the school is being ridiculous.

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When kids go on a field trip, the parents have to fill out a waiver form to protect the school from liability, even though there's a very very small chance for them to get hurt or injured and the kids will be interacting with people on the way to and from school but the school still sends out a form. This refutes your 1st and 3rd point.

If you are complaining about a $40 dollar charge then bring it up to the school board to have them possibility include that in the budget for next year. If you are complaining about the 3 or so hours that you have to take out of your day, then you don't give a shit about your son enough for this task and you aren't the right person to be a volunteer. As mentioned in the DNC thread where Diggy is volunteering, volunteers aren't given much respect or leeway to decide things.

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Originally Posted by OSA

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

This isn't about me.

However, I'm wondering what you (and the other 3 people who voted yes) believe is gained by a TB test.

- 1 in 36,000 people get TB. Extremely rare.

- The symptoms are obvious when it's contagious, so any sensible parent would stay away anyway (plus school staff would notice the sick parent and send them home immediately).

- The kids will encounter a shitload of people outside of school who aren't TB tested, so why bother testing a single parent who barely sees them? It is impossible to raise a kid without massive exposure to non-TB-tested people, unless you never let them leave the house.

I'm surprised someone like you, who tries to find an angle with everything, is advocating the "be a mindless sheep" approach.

Not that the parent here has much choice, but I agree that the school is being ridiculous.

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When kids go on a field trip, the parents have to fill out a waiver form to protect the school from liability, even though there's a very very small chance for them to get hurt or injured and the kids will be interacting with people on the way to and from school but the school still sends out a form. This refutes your 1st and 3rd point.

If you are complaining about a $40 dollar charge then bring it up to the school board to have them possibility include that in the budget for next year. If you are complaining about the 3 or so hours that you have to take out of your day, then you don't give a shit about your son enough for this task and you aren't the right person to be a volunteer. As mentioned in the DNC thread where Diggy is volunteering, volunteers aren't given much respect or leeway to decide things.

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You're apparently not understanding this.

The waiver for field trips is totally different. It's releasing them from liability if something happens, because the kids are being taken outside of school grounds. Signing a waiver form is virtually no burden for the parents (takes about 30 seconds). The burden of seeing a doctor for a TB test is both expense and hours worth of time.

Now, this would be fine if something were to be gained from it.

Can you explain how anything is gained by TB testing ONE adult coming into contact with the kids?

What about everyone else the kids encounter outside of school? None of them are TB tested. So testing that single parent volunteering is so important, but the thousands of other people the kids encounter that year are okay NOT to have the TB test?

Do you understand how absurd this is?

Think about the time you met met at the WSOP to get bought into that cmoney-backed event. Imagine if I asked you to get TB tested before meeting me. Would you have said this was absurd, since the thousands of others at the Rio weren't tested, and I'm in contact with them just as much as you?

100% you would have made that point and said I was a crazy person if I demanded it, and you'd have been right.

Same situation here.

The only thing you're correct about is the fact that volunteers don't have the authority to decide anything. I get that, which is why the parent told me he was basically given the choice to either get the test or back out of volunteering. I'm not saying he had any power in that situation.

However, we can still discuss whether the demand for the test was stupid in the first place.

And yes, it was most definitely stupid.

What's also stupid is that the only test requirement is for TB.

You can have tons of other communicative diseases -- including severe ones -- and you're not required to get screened for those.

Only TB, which is a non-problem in the US.

Dumb.

Voted no, agree with Druff on this one.

Obviously pro-vaccination, and think parents who don't vaccinate their kids are fucking morons who should be investigated by social services on that alone, but do wonder whether things go too far in terms of things on top.

Like flu shots - I've gotten one for the last several years, but do wonder if I'm just coughing up to the medical industry.

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Originally Posted by verminaard

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Originally Posted by Avon Barksdale

Not to get too off topic, but California is a fucking mess right now, and spiraling out of control quickly.

I just heard today that this is the 7th year in a row more non homeless natural born residents (code for whites people) people have moved out of California than in.

Your state government has really failed you. Sad.

Was such a beautiful place. They really do need to break it up into 5 smaller states and start over.

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The population of California definitely isn’t shrinking. Whatever number you are using is way under estimating the number of recent migrants and homeless. California is basically becoming a 3rd world country. Rich elites in guarded communities surrounded by the poor masses with the middle class being squeezed out. It is what it is.

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Enjoying this so much.

I lack the capacity to imagine what public school education is like in SoCal.

I could start with the pronouns lesson. Jesus.


Lol, Verm’s medievil diseases retro comeback. Look, more care should be taken with those that are teaching the kids.... not less.

Why only TB? The whole board should be run but at the employer (taxpayer) expense like is done for preemployment drug screening. Hell, do drug screening too. Just identify the clinic the prospect should go to.

There is never too much caution when it comes to your kids. Only Druff’s kid is at WSOP. I don’t know where Druff got his numbers. They are prolly national and SoCal is its own Petri dish.

My initial response was my own experience coaching kids and needing to get CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) screened. The sex offender number is prolly pretty small but be safe.

Verm just created a new image of LA as Costa Rica. Gated communities and the lawless infected rabble outside the gates. Lulz

When does bussing begin in SoCal?

Serious as a heart attack.... that discussion is coming. Bussing the consevatives, trans kids and the rich to the inner city

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

When does bussing begin in SoCal?

Serious as a heart attack.... that discussion is coming. Bussing the consevatives, trans kids and the rich to the inner city

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well, that's not possible...except for Los Angeles Unified School District and City of Los Angeles , Southern California is a patchwork of small school districts and cities (Glendale, Burbank, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Santa Clarita)...

and it LA Unified, student enrollment by race is 73% Hispanic, 11% White, 8% Black, 4% Asian, 2% Filipino...so what is the sense in bussing for racial purposes--there's not enough whites and Asians anymore to go around...the bussing that is done is to ship in Hispanics from areas of excess population (downtown) to suburb schools that no longer have adequate enrollment (white & asian parents with school aged kids moved out or enrolled in private schools)

I actually agree with Druff on this one, but voted "Don't care" because I just don't have the energy anymore

If school requires then school nurse should administer and read results. The cheap way to go if this won't happen is your public health clinic where they give them for 5 dollars.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

The TB test is super easy and quick to take. Being safe is better.

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Nothing is "super easy" if it involves seeing a doctor. It means driving to an appointment, waiting, seeing the doctor, and driving back. Plus forking over the co-pay.

This is unnecessary and a perfect example of burdensome precaution with zero gain from it.

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Have you heard that some countries have a medical system in which it’s completely free at the point of use? You could get tested for nothing!

Could you imagine the outrage and phone calls that would ensue if Benji got TB from a school volunteer??????????



School volunteers at nearly every school undergo criminal background checks as well as TB tests. Not a big secret. Don't want to get a TB test? Don't volunteer.

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Originally Posted by gauchojake

Could you imagine the outrage and phone calls that would ensue if Benji got TB from a school volunteer??????????



School volunteers at nearly every school undergo criminal background checks as well as TB tests. Not a big secret. Don't want to get a TB test? Don't volunteer.

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Why would I blame the school for not pre-screening parental volunteers for every possible disease?

I would be mad at the parent for showing up sick to volunteer to be around kids. I would only be mad at the school if they were aware the parents was sick and didn't send them home.

Explain what benefit these TB tests give. All kids come in contact with a ton of people outside school, and none of them are TB tested. What good is testing one parent seeing them briefly in school going to do?

And please explain why they are screening for only one rare (and obvious) disease, while ignoring all others.

It is absolutely absurd to put each volunteer through 2+ hours of the process of seeing a doctor for a non-problem. "Don't volunteer if you don't like it" or "You can't be too careful" responses are 100% missing the point. We are discussing whether or not the school is being stupid, not whether the volunteer has any rights to skip it.

I'm honestly shocked that several of you in this thread don't see how stupid and arbitrary this is. They are picking one rare disease while ignoring all others, and requiring a test for it when no other people encountering the kids outside the school have been tested. Huh???

Pretty bad disease and you can be walking around for a while before feeling sick, a small portion of people who have small amount of contact will contract the illness. Meaning you could get it and your immune system could fight it off successfully.
Generally the people who get Tb are not the kind who are volunteers at school.

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Originally Posted by Baron Von Strucker

Pretty bad disease and you can be walking around for a while before feeling sick, a small portion of people who have small amount of contact will contract the illness. Meaning you could get it and your immune system could fight it off successfully.
Generally the people who get Tb are not the kind who are volunteers at school.

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Bolded part is also 100% true.

This Mayo Clinic webpage claims TB won't spread if it's inactive (no symptoms), but that you should still treat it because it can go active at any point: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351250

But this would back my point that a contagious parent would know they were sick before going to school and spreading it.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...ssment-FAQ.pdf