Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fergie72
Wow. If you think the economy is bad now, just wait till this monster of a tax hike takes full effect.
The government has proven time and time again that it cannot do anything remotely efficiently. Now, they are running (and ruining) the health care system.
:doublefacepalm
**If you read this whole rant, you will quickly realize that it is a little less lib partial as you might think.**
I think you are wrong there Fergie. I think WWII and the space progam which both created trillions in future profits for private US corporations/contractors was pretty successful.....along with reaching its desired goal ahead of schedule were just a couple of examples of not only working but working efficiently. Also the Scandanavian countries who enjoy free and excellent health care would argue your claims. But only a moron would engage in that argument with you as the government isn't running
anything in the healthcare field as it is in those Scananavian countries...(who incidentally would go to war before they allowed their health care to be changed to ours)......our government is providing regulations similar to the auto insurance industry. The Scandanavian system, which is actually government run (unlike Obamacare) enjoys an approval rating in the 80+% range in those countries. These are people that actually have EXPERIENCED that type of care there, unlike Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Its also amusing to listen to to completely different types of successful European medical systems being atatcked as if they are all one unit of socialized medicine. Even though they are all very very different systems with only one thing in common...that ther isn't a single country you would raise your family in that doesn't have socialized or a government run health system. Not one. And if you care about saving money, you might realize our current system is per person the absolute worst in cost and amongst civilized countries worst in coverage. We are the only modern country where not only can you go bankrupt due to a health condition of a family member out of your control...you are LIKELY to. And medical bankruptcy is the number one cause of bankruptcy. Nevermind that we are last in preventitive care and are behind countries such as Poland in infant mortality rate....it is not much of a stretch to argue that our country in fact DOESN'T have the best care for its general population (not just the very rich) and with the spiralling costs that increase yearly whethere Obamacare got passed or not, its not like we are tinkering with a good system here. The ability to service the Shieks of Saudi Arabia and Heads of State of some African country with the best the free market has to offer is not going away because of this or any bill. I am more concerned about whether we are the best system for the average person and that answer is an overwhelming resounding "no" by any person that has ever studied our system no matter how conservative. It's broken due to cost alone and unless we start euthanizing poor people, it is only going to get worse.
How dumb do you have to be to not only believe this opinion but espouse it on the internet? I mean Dandruff is a conservative for instance. He probably detests the bill, as do I. But he is smart enough to know this isn't a take over of government health care. They aren't running the health care system. Its not close. Step one would be the United Kingdom, where a private system competes with a public system. Step two would be a single payer system, once again run by private industry with the government picking up the tab. Step three towards socialized medicine would be.....actual socialized medicine like it is in most civilized country where the doctor is an actual government worker.
Now I am not arguing which method is better. They all work in providing high quality health care. The countries using the above methods live longer and are less expensive per person. Now we could argue all day but the fact is these plans are comparable once you factor in the value of cost. I for one prefer the British method, but they all have their flaws. And yes, the UNites States obviously has HUGE flaws considering the costs rise 20% every year no matter what party is in charge. The Dems claim that reining in insurance companies profit and wasteful emergency room spending will lower costs. The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) agrees that it will cut costs. There is ZERO disagreement that it will cut costs PER PERSON as many devastating and expensive illnesses will be prevented with a simple checkup. Along with the fact that many young people will join the ranks of the insured with little costs of their own, but will add to the kitty. These new and profitable customers are the reason the big insurance companies signed off on this deal and it passed congress. It is important for conservative to remember that their free market heroes such as Big Pharm, Hospital Chains. Most Doctors (AMA for example) and big insurance SUPPORTED this goddamn bill. The only people complaining are the people that don't understand the bill or simply hate giving away ANYTHING to the poor even if it determines their life or death. These are the exact same people that would let people starve to death in the streets if it was their option. Now there are benefits to society both ways, just a different perspective.
There are so many ways to argue the various points of this bill I can't even start....but one of the dumbest is calling it a government takeover. When it isn't even close. It is a start, but it would be the same as Democrats crying and claiming that Abortion was made illegal because partial birth abortions were outlawed. it just isn't accurate and it displays a level of intelligence that has no place in a serious or even casual political discussion. Is Obamacare the start of socialized or government controlled healthcare. Yes. In the same way that a partial birth abortion ban is a "start" to outlawing abortion. The thing is though....abortion is not going to get banned and the US will never fully copy European style healthcare systems. We are a different culture. We like the idea of punishing those less fortunate (not less hard working less fortunate like someone who works 2 low paying jobs and gets cancer) for achieving less than the desired norm. This aspect of our society has its advantages and disadvantages, and it is a damn shame that we cannot look at these things scientifically and accurately. Both sides just spout their ridiculous claims and cater to the low IQ portion of their base to stay in power. I don't have a solution, but I do know that most opinions on the health care law, welfare and many other conservative hot button issues....are just plain poorly reasoned....and severly underinformed. 95% of the people who claim welfare is the number one pronle with our country cannot name a single federal government agency that provides said "welfare". People that complain the loudest about foodstamps often do so in a conservative state and do not realize that it is their red state that provides the foodstamps, not the federal government. Hilarious watching dimwits blame Obama for excess foodstamp spending. When he has zero control over your program. Congress has more control in matching funds. You want to know why foodstamps will never go away? Its not a love of handouts by the Dems or a weakness by the "RINO's"....its two things 1) Foodstamps cuts crime. It is a fucking fact. Starving people commit crimes. Everytime. And crime prevention, prosecution, control, sentencing, incarceration, rehabilitation and victimization is VERY VERY VERY expensive, and that is just for the government. Private security costs destroy retails profit margin. Particularly grocers and other food retailers which leads me to the most important reason food stamps will never go away: Food lobbyists. Bribe both sides. Insure that foodstamp program expands every year.
If you can follow my reasoning in the reason we have a healthy foodstamp program and likely always will, you may understand why I hate this health care bill so much. SUper powerful, super profitable, Industry led special interest lobbyists control our government. And nearly everytime politics is debated and one side attacks the other....without mentioning this fact, the real problem in our country is ignored and useless, ignorant political discussion ensues.
Quit being a victim of the smokescreen, stop espousing your sides talking points and listen to the point the other side is trying to make. As for the health care bill. Give it a chance. It might just work. It works for other countries. I think it will fail as a cost control because of corporate freebies for big industry. To be fair I believe that is why all our policies fail. People just don't understand why supporting large corporations unfairly with tax breaks destroys the middle class but particularly destroys the productivity of small business. Small business has to compete unfairly with a less efficient but well connected and well lobbied...evil machine, a conglomerate of large industry. And the Democrats are a huge part of that, certainly more pathetic than the Republicans, because the Dems are the ones that are the ones that were supposed to protect the little guy and the small business. They sold us down the river and I believe they did the same with this health care bill. They should have insisted on single payer and ran the goddamn insurance companies out of business. Imagine an entire industry that cures no patients, whose best interest is to NOT provide coverage, soaking up over 20% of the medical nudget and at the same time destroying out local free market system of healthcare and doctor/patient choice. Destroying the ability for small medical companies to compete or even have research on their product happen.
LOL at the ridiculous argument that this healthcare plan puts the government between you and your doctor. I wish it would. It is a whole lot better than a middle manager at an insurance company being between you and your doctor, only with an incentive to deny you coverage. That IS the current reality and it would be impossible to argue otherwise. Don't be an idiot and parrot that talking point please. Because that IS the absolute dumbest, most indefensible argument in politics right now. Especially since there is to date, no socialized medicine in this country. Only the same type of guidelines we have for our Life,Auto and property insurance companies. Because only in this country do you do more preventive care for your home and auto than you do for your body....and the government paying for things (ie the people) would change that.
We will evolve as a society once we transition from sick care to health care....and stop running a sick sick lotto system where you go bankrupt when you have cancer.....because only 10% of the population can afford the 10% co-pay for cancer treatment, and a system designed to protect 10% of the population is not a democratic system. Which we don't have either at this time.
