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I'll toss up a link to the preview if I find it as a stand alone, otherwise it is the last few minutes of the current podcast.
JULY 18th: “A Queen of Sorts”: Poker star PHIL IVEY's scam to fleece the casinos with his mysterious sidekick, "KELLY," CHEUNG YIN SUN, who crafted the scheme to enact revenge..
Edit: 45:30 start.
MP3 file: http://cdn16.castfire.com/audio/303/4312/29946/3374401/30for30_2017-07-11-033601-6427-0-21-0.128.mp3
From what I can tell seems like the casino was pulling the con on him. Seems like they were well aware of what was going on, but they decided to treat it as a free roll, where they would just not give out the $$ if he won. I would say Phil was the one who was scammed.
Casinos bring in so much tax revenue that it's hard for an individual to beat cases like this because the system don't want to piss off and piss on what is a money tree for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Did they freeroll him?
Sort of!
That wasn't the plan going in because they certainly didn't know he would try to gain the edge he did off them otherwise they just tell him to take his action elsewhere. It possibly turned into a freeroll if they discovered half way through what he was doing with his helper but for Phil to prove they did know and continued to take his action is practically impossible.
When these things happen a casino should suck it up the first time and eat the loss. They can take this as a learning experience and change their rules to be clear you can't do certain things to prevent getting beat this way in the future.
A vague law in the casino business basically protects them by saying the casino is always right (until proven otherwise and gl with that), unlike that old expression that the customer always is.
This is not scamming but simply capitalizing on the incompetence and greed of the casino industry.
They paid him at Borgata, so obviously not a freeroll. They only realized it later.
Crockford's, which didn't pay him, was probably a freeroll for the casino.
I still agree with Ivey, though. This was advantage play, not a scam or cheating.
Agreed. Casino management fucked up by agreeing to playing terms that allowed Ivey to have an advantage. The blackjack player featured in this video who made a killing against the casinos by negotiating very generous loss-back, comps, and play limits did likewise but I don't recall the casinos suing him to get their money back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39mK...ature=youtu.be
With those terms and capitalizing on mistakes the dealers made, he reported netted a $15 million profit during that period. The casinos apparently then no longer give him such terms, and the manager at one of the casinos who allowed him to olay such high stakes was fired, but I haven't heard that the casinos sued to get their money back.
Verdict: Ivey was screwed by casino-friendly courts.
they just posted the episode. lets all listen to it and discuss
Fantastic episode. Loved the simple math and the story telling
Good listen. Here is a clip if you aren't on mobile or don't want to use the espn app.
http://m.espn.com/general/cast?id=19472136&src=desktop
Downloading now. Will listen now and follow up with my two centsQuote:
Originally Posted by SetofKs
Well done. Loved how the hero was Kelly Sun not Phil Ivey. Gave you a whole new and frankly more interesting take on the story. A story borne of revenge. Those are always best.
Nestled the week before (7/4/17) is the Yankees Suck podcast. I might have missed so I owe a debt to OP. Absolutely made my day.
Crowe, Kunt, Daly, China and all the rest who passed through will thrill to the nostalgia. The fights, the punk scene - Fenway sharing Landsdowne Street. The piece is the best thing I've listened to for a long long time. Money back guarantee.
Sawks fans and the Boston sports talk was at its pinnacle. Boston fans and talk are still the best for the hate and the love. Not what it was in 1999-2003 but the rest of the nation is so weak they still rule.
Sadly Sawks went corporate and the punk in you has to flip on them. I'm a Yankees fan now. I relish the hate and controversy this brings my way. Sawks are no different than the Dodgers now.
I sometimes wonder what a Red Sox Dodgers World Series would be like. What would I do? What ugly choice would I be forced to make? Neither will get there but I wonder.
I find these decisions to be completely biased.
If either of these 2 owned a casino, came into work one day, and was told 'some Poker super star came in last night
and beat us for 5 mil (or whatever,) at baccarat, and we now know the cards were marked by the manufacturer', (I'll listen tonight, but that is the story I remember. She had great eye sight and knew what to look for on the cards)
I'm sure your 2 verdicts would be the exact same. I don't see how it isn't cheating. I'm not a poker fanboy either, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadlyVerdict: Ivey was screwed by casino-friendly courts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I thought the piece was pretty well done, they did a good job getting views from both sides. But *yawn*, did they say anything we didn't already know? Fucking fag espn
Well you're pretty much always wrong, so we gotta factor that inQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyG_415
great article from which the podcast was kinda based on: http://grantland.com/features/yankee...oston-red-sox/Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
as for sports radio, by the height of the 03-04 neverending season, I was listening to Dale & Neumy then the Big Show pretty much every day, as circumstances allowed. The amount of honest emotion invested in everyone, from every idiot caller to idiot host to the self-proclaimed idiots on the field, it was as rivetting as the games almost. The games themselves are still hard to believe.
Three days I remember the most (not including the obv choices) are the day after the game 3 loss to the yankees before the run, the day Nomar finally had to go (Derek Jeter put the exclamation point on that while nomar was on the bench pouting), and the day Nomar was really, actually gone. We're lucky as all hell to have been able to live through such a thing. I got to work the All Star Weekend Fan Fest the year Boston had the game, and when Nomar pulled up outside one to say Hi, the Hynes may as well have had a fire. Lines disappeared inside, thousands of people heading for the door, so many people just wanting to get a photo of our goddamn HERO waving on Boylston St. I'm starting to get misty here. May have to youtube some old clips and cry in a little while.
edit: BTW, I own a Shank a Yank shirt. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but that's what they had that day, and I had $10. "$10 crack rocks for jocks." Amen.
Players can use any error/mistake the casino makes to gain an edge. In this case the casino used flawed cards and assumed they had a bigger edge than they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyG_415
No cheating.
It would be different if Ivey had anything to do with getting the flawed cards to the casino or if he had used any mechanical/electronic device to find the flaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodedN
It was kind of a fluff piece.
What I found interesting was the backstory they provided on Kelly Sun. Her vengeance for MGM properties.
They said on the podcast they had basically circled the globe edge sorting. I wonder why no other properties sued them or even went public?
I almost turned it off after the first few minutes. I got really annoyed with all these supposed gaming experts who couldn't even pronounce baccarat correctly. The "t" on the end is silent. It is a massive, I mean massive faux pas to pronounce it with any emphasis on the "t". You literally will come off to others as an amateur or even a phony when discussing the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5apBVure8I&feature=youtu.beYou
Ivey is an advantage player through and through, and always has been. He did a great job painting himself as a degenerate. I guess his big craps action was +EV because of loss rebates.
There is an interview with the sun chick on the gambling with an edge podcast. My memory is terrible, but I remember hearing somewhere that Nevada casinos didn't sue because they knew they had no chance. Maybe Nevada courts already ruled in a previous case that edge sorting isn't cheating? I can't remember exactly.
This is the reason Ivey didn't play the wsop this year. He has a judgement against him. He could win the main event, and every dollar would be confiscated.
He has a judgment under appeal, not a lein. They ain't taking shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKs
Hmmmmm, you sure? Private World on 2p2 said he didn't play because he had judgements against him, and Private World is usually right. Certainly could be wrong here tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe DiddlyHe has a judgment under appeal, not a lein. They ain't taking shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKs
Probably just didn't play because there was some monster cash game then, I assume.
Several articles say Phil Ivey was in court starting the appeal back on 7/13. I'm sure that date was locked in where he couldn't change it if he wanted to so in that case their is no chance he could play the main event.Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKsHmmmmm, you sure? Private World on 2p2 said he didn't play because he had judgements against him, and Private World is usually right. Certainly could be wrong here tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
They are all similar but here are a few of them:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-cheating-case
http://www.casinonewsdaily.com/2017/...t-appeal-case/
https://calvinayre.com/2017/07/17/ca...supreme-court/
He was in Vegas for a while during the series for all the cash games but I believe went back to the UK.
Not sure at all, but privateworld's the very single source for it on the whole internet, when I looked. also, think about any time you've ever heard of someone winning a judgment like this, and getting paid any time within half a decade. It's been like 7 months since the initial judgment. There's no mechanism for making someone pay up with their first set of appeals filed and not completely ruled on yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKsHmmmmm, you sure? Private World on 2p2 said he didn't play because he had judgements against him, and Private World is usually right. Certainly could be wrong here tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
but i have no real info, so i could be way off.
Actually in many circumstances you can force a defendant to put up a bond covering the underlying judgment if the defendant Wants to appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe DiddlyNot sure at all, but privateworld's the very single source for it on the whole internet, when I looked. also, think about any time you've ever heard of someone winning a judgment like this, and getting paid any time within half a decade. It's been like 7 months since the initial judgment. There's no mechanism for making someone pay up with their first set of appeals filed and not completely ruled on yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKs
but i have no real info, so i could be way off.
true, and in some places I think it can be well over 100% of the actual judgment amount, to account for interest and that shit, but that's far from a lien. With that said, the case is still open and he can't even appeal it yet until it fully finalized, so he wouldn't even owe that money just yet either. (Case won't be finalized until the Borgata and the card company case is finished, or something like that.)Quote:
Originally Posted by TellafriendActually in many circumstances you can force a defendant to put up a bond covering the underlying judgment if the defendant Wants to appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
companion podcast to the Queen of Sorts pod.
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=20105211
Where in the World is Phil Ivey?
[Answer: possibly the country of the Philippines, Montenegro or Australia]
He doesn't give a shit about the World Series of Poker.
MGM Resorts might get a judgement against Phil for over $10 million.
He doesn't have much Las Vegas real estate left.
Only a $300K over-priced condo he and his ex-wife bought back in 2006.
He might own a home in Cabo San Lucas.
He also is traveling with Paul Phua all over the world and living off his scraps which probably equal over $10 million plus a year.
You might find him in the Philippines at Solaire Resort, Casino & Hotel in Manila.
Or on Paul Phua's $48 million Gulfstream V jet somewhere between Australia, Philippines or Montenegro.
https://www.paulphuapoker.com/
https://www.paulphuapoker.com/wp-con...erselfie-1.jpg
Paul Phua Tells All: "I Am Not What the Media Alleges Me To Be"
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2016/...-all-24367.htm
How the world's biggest bookie was snared at last year's WSOP -- and walked a free man
http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id...-away-free-man
Quote:
Paul Phua is probably the best non-pro I’ve ever played poker against. And you can call him a “non-pro” only because he’s such a successful businessman too. He’s certainly better — maybe much better — than a large percentage of professional players. - Phil Ivey
Quote:
Paul Phua has a desire to learn and improve. He’s focused on actually playing better, and doesn’t mind admitting mistakes if he makes them. So now he is always one of the best poker players in almost any poker game he sits down in (and he often doesn’t pick easy games). - Tom Dwan
https://www.cardschat.com/news/wp-co...17/05/phua.png
https://www.highstakesdb.com/images/...48_705x365.jpg
https://www.assopoker.com/wp-content...-paul-phua.jpg
bumping back a few of the more popular threads I buried to page 2.