New telemarketing scam: Answering "Yes" to "Can you hear me?" used to illegally sign people up for stuff

Whatever you do, don’t say yes when this chatbot asks, 'Can you hear me?'

http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...324-story.html

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It’s the most cunning robocall scam I’ve encountered — and the fact that I’ve fallen for it more than once tells you how successful it can be.

The phone rings. You pick it up and say “hello.” There’s a brief silence and then a woman’s voice says, “Oh, hi there!” She offers an embarrassed laugh. “I’m sorry, I was having a little trouble with my headset!”


I’ve gotten this call a number of times in recent weeks, at home and at work, and each time I’ve been suckered by the lifelike opening to stay on the line longer than I normally would for a robocall or a telemarketing pitch. It’s only when I realize I’ve heard the exact same thing before that I realize I’m hearing a recording.

This is a new and highly sophisticated racket known as the “can you hear me” scam, which involves tricking people into saying yes and using that affirmation to sign people up for stuff they didn’t order.

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Anyone here familiar with/bit by this scam?

I get a lot of these.

Until I read the article, I didn't realize that I was specifically getting these type of calls. I knew it was some scam, and I had heard about the "yes" thing recently, but the calls described in this article are identical to the ones I've been receiving.

They didn't get what they wanted out of me, though.

Whenever I get these robocalls, I either hang up, or I keep saying obscene things and wait to see if there's a human monitoring it to hang up on me.

So when it says something like, "So can I give you more information about a free cruise to the Bahamas?", I answer, "Suck my dick" or "Let me cum on your face", and then wait to see what happens.

I did get the new breed of these calls. They have prerecorded voices asking for various common and semi-common first names, and then it calls you up and asks for you by your first name. (They can only do this when calling from a list where they associate your name with your number.)

A few days ago, I got a call from a bogus caller ID in Los Angeles, asking, "Hi, is this Todd?"

When I asked in return, "Who's calling?", it immediatey hung up on me.

Anyway, while it's good advice to avoid saying "yes", clearly a "yes" recording of you is not a binding legal contract.

I can't see this ever holding up under any kind of scrutiny. I'm not just talking about court. I'm talking about credit card companies and other arbiters which get involved when you claim a scam occurred. This is especially true now that the "yes" scam is widely known.

I am guessing that they will not use your "yes" thing to answer any kind of legal or credit card challenge, but rather attempt to use it to scare gullible people away from complaining, especially perhaps the elderly.

For example, your 85-year-old grandma gets scammed this way, she calls up questioning a charge on her credit card, and they play her a recording of her saying "yes", and insist that she agreed and there's nothing she could do. Some people will back down at that point, either believing they forgot they agreed, or thinking that they are screwed because of the recording.

I imagine that if you challenge this in any way, you will always win.

Is there any evidence people are getting screwed over by this? Druff is right, no way holds up in court and I don't see how they would bill you anyways.

They also could get you to say yes many other ways besides can you hear me questions.

In fact the one article linked doesn't prove anything


http://komonews.com/news/consumer/lo...ar-me-scammers

Doesn't say how they got his credit card. They also could have done the same thing without him saying yes...

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Whatever you do, don’t say yes when this chatbot asks, 'Can you hear me?'

http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...324-story.html

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It’s the most cunning robocall scam I’ve encountered — and the fact that I’ve fallen for it more than once tells you how successful it can be.

The phone rings. You pick it up and say “hello.” There’s a brief silence and then a woman’s voice says, “Oh, hi there!” She offers an embarrassed laugh. “I’m sorry, I was having a little trouble with my headset!”


I’ve gotten this call a number of times in recent weeks, at home and at work, and each time I’ve been suckered by the lifelike opening to stay on the line longer than I normally would for a robocall or a telemarketing pitch. It’s only when I realize I’ve heard the exact same thing before that I realize I’m hearing a recording.

This is a new and highly sophisticated racket known as the “can you hear me” scam, which involves tricking people into saying yes and using that affirmation to sign people up for stuff they didn’t order.

...

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Anyone here familiar with/bit by this scam?

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This cunt called me a few weeks ago. I waited to get through to an operator and started yelling at the douchebag, called him a thief, and then started cursing, yelling as loud as I could (OBV noone was home with me). The dude started yelling back LOL. Victory. I hope, unless the fckers signed me up for something.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

A few days ago, I got a call from a bogus caller ID in Los Angeles, asking, "Hi, is this Todd?"

When I asked in return, "Who's calling?", it immediatey hung up on me.

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this kinda frightens me. Why did the robot hang up?

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Originally Posted by LarryLaffer

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

A few days ago, I got a call from a bogus caller ID in Los Angeles, asking, "Hi, is this Todd?"

When I asked in return, "Who's calling?", it immediatey hung up on me.

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this kinda frightens me. Why did the robot hang up?

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Robots can tell if you're Jewish or not.

It was probably a real person that could tell right away that a sale wasn't happening.

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Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit

It was probably a real person that could tell right away that a sale wasn't happening.

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ok so here's my point. why the fuck are they even bothering with robots then if they still have to pay someone to listen?

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Originally Posted by LarryLaffer

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Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit

It was probably a real person that could tell right away that a sale wasn't happening.

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ok so here's my point. why the fuck are they even bothering with robots then if they still have to pay someone to listen?

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In my day they didn't use robots. Just zombies.

Ivanka called me as a robot on election day

0/U loads set at 1

Play touch tones after telling the kids to hold up the phone to the TV. Then dial your 1900 # and profit.

Probably doesn't work so well with so many cell phones..

SFOed?

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Originally Posted by LarryLaffer

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

A few days ago, I got a call from a bogus caller ID in Los Angeles, asking, "Hi, is this Todd?"

When I asked in return, "Who's calling?", it immediatey hung up on me.

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this kinda frightens me. Why did the robot hang up?

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It probably can recognize speech and hands up if the answer doesn't contain "yes"

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Originally Posted by lewfather

Ivanka called me as a robot on election day

0/U loads set at 1

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Love this guy. He tried to get to the bottom of the spoofed numbers calling me 2 times a week selling either security alarm services or credit card bs. I sometimes wait to yell at the guy answering the phone but I have given up. Can any of our cyber sleuths comment on this article ? Krebbs tracked it down and it looks like lead generators. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/06/...-mad-get-busy/

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Originally Posted by Charham

Love this guy. He tried to get to the bottom of the spoofed numbers calling me 2 times a week selling either security alarm services or credit card bs. I sometimes wait to yell at the guy answering the phone but I have given up. Can any of our cyber sleuths comment on this article ? Krebbs tracked it down and it looks like lead generators. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/06/...-mad-get-busy/

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Interesting article, BUT...

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That may be about to change. The FCC recently approved new rules that would let phone companies block robocallers from using numbers they aren’t supposed to be using.

“If a robocaller decides to spoof another phone number — making it appear that they’re calling from a different line to hide their identity — phone providers would be able to block them if they use a number that clearly can’t exist because it hasn’t been assigned or that an existing subscriber has asked not to have spoofed,” reads a story at The Verge.

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Bullshit.

There's no way to do this.

Why do you think Caller ID spoofing exists? Because the phone company wants it to? Because they knowingly allow it?

No. It's because caller ID is generated by the switching system of the caller -- not the receiver. And given the ability of cheap VOIP systems to place calls, it's very easy to get a system which will essentially complete its own calls and generate its own caller ID.

So there's no way the phone company can tell the difference between a spoofed and real number.

It's the equivalent of getting a knock on your door, and you asking, "Who is it?", and the knocker giving a fake name. If you don't know the person at the door, you have no way to know if the name they're giving is real or fake.

The only way to put an end to caller ID spoofing is to change the way caller ID works. Rather than trusting the caller ID info being sent, phone companies would need to verify it in some way. This would require a whole new protocol for call completion, and I don't see such an expensive and disruptive undertaking being put forth simply to stop spoofed numbers.

I actually wrote about this a few years ago: http://toddwitteles.net/todd-witteles/?p=1

This article claims phone companies will deny calls from nonexistent/disconnected numbers, as well as those from "numbers where the owner asked not to be spoofed", but that second part makes no sense. The phone company can't tell a spoof from a legit caller ID, so how can it detect a spoof?

I think when the internet is involved, there is no way to stop these things.

One time I received a call & looked at the caller ID to find out I was calling myself. Needless to say I didn't want to talk to no fucking Canadian idiot & let it go to voicemail. I did not leave a message.

BUMP

For whatever reason, a meme warning people about this old YES scam is going around on Facebook again. I got into a debate with Dan Goldman (former Pokerstars executive) about it, after he disagreed when I said it was a myth.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

This is a myth. A recording of you saying yes isn't legally binding.

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Originally Posted by Dan Goldman

Todd is correct that your verbal consent *probably* isn't binding, but your recorded consent is almost always accepted by CC companies as 'first proof' (i.e. you dispute a charge and that's what the CC company sends). Then you have to disprove their 'evidence.'

This is far from a myth.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

It's not binding. And no CC company has ever ruled in favor of the scammers in a situation like this. This is more used to trick people (especially seniors) into believing they accepted and forgot about it, and that even if they don't believe it, they shouldn't bother to fight it because they'll lose.

As I said, myth.

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Originally Posted by Dan Goldman

I had typed a different response, but I now realize that I no longer need to engage experts who aren't really experts. There is plenty of supporting data out there (I'll give you a lead: check the MN AG web site).

https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/...nYouHearMe.asp

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Dan, again, you are oversimplifying it. I'm not denying that this scam exists. I'm stating that it doesn't work like you think it does.

There is nothing legally binding about a recording of you on the phone saying "YES". It can be used as supporting evidence in the case of a legitimate dispute (for example, SiriusXM subscribers are required to say YES several times to the terms when they switch their plan), but never can it be used by scammers as legal justification to sign you up for unwanted products or services.

The YES scam is used to trick the victim into believing they have no recourse -- or that they accepted the terms and simply don't remember. This is particularly effective against the elderly, as they are more likely to be tricked into believing that they agreed to something and simply forgot. Also, as I said, it's used to intimidate people out of reporting the matter to the law enforcement or credit card companies, fearing they will look foolish. In some cases, victims are even threatened that they'll be arrested for filing false police reports!

Therefore, instead of explaining this semi-complex concept stated above, the easiest and safest advice given is to "hang up and don't say yes", because that prevents the gullible and elderly from getting into this mess in the first place.

It's one of those things where the simple explanation is easier for the average person to digest (and it sounds a lot more ominous, thus making it go viral), so it's presented that way.

Notice that even that Minnesota AG article you're talking about doesn't claim that any of these charges are legally binding.

People like sharing this story because: 1) They feel helpful and 2) It makes them feel like they have power over scammers by thwarting their attempts to get them to say the magic scam-authorizing word. But as I said, it's a myth.

But if I'm wrong, feel free to show me one case where a credit card company refused someone's chargeback simply because they were tricked into saying YES on a scam call.

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Who the hell answers a call from a number they don’t know nowadays? What’s the point? If it’s a real call from someone you know they will leave a message and you can instantly call them back.

Also: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca...oHvvsp8lspgsGE

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Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Who the hell answers a call from a number they don’t know nowadays? What’s the point? If it’s a real call from someone you know they will leave a message and you can instantly call them back.

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I admit I answer them all. I'm curious about the angle of scam calls. Sometimes I want to mess with them back and record it for radio, but it seems whenever I try, it turns out to be a boring one.

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Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Who the hell answers a call from a number they don’t know nowadays? What’s the point? If it’s a real call from someone you know they will leave a message and you can instantly call them back.

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Under normal circumstances you are totally correct and it has been like this for a while now. However, during the pandemic when dealing with things ranging from state vaccine hotlines, doctor’s offices, grocery delivery etc, many of these services are overwhelmed. I have been waiting on EZ Pass to call me back regarding a bullshit fine I received when the malfunction was clearly on their end for weeks.

A lot of these services have you leave a message or fill out a form online and then you wait for a call. It forces you to answer numbers that may very well be spoofed. I have picked up more scam calls than usual because when you don’t answer a lot of these calls you go to the back of the queue. I think this is one of the reasons why scam calls seem to be increasing. You can’t screen calls like you used to.

I have answered numbers before from other area codes which look fishy, but turn out being legit calls from businesses I'd want to talk to.

I'm not afraid of scam calls, so I answer everything.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Who the hell answers a call from a number they don’t know nowadays? What’s the point? If it’s a real call from someone you know they will leave a message and you can instantly call them back.

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I admit I answer them all. I'm curious about the angle of scam calls. Sometimes I want to mess with them back and record it for radio, but it seems whenever I try, it turns out to be a boring one.

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I sometimes answer when I'm driving around and not listening to PFA radio. Last summer I started getting this version:

"We see you recently visited our job listing website and would like to tell you about some openings."

"OK"

Well, what kind of job are you looking for?"

I knew at that point that it was a scam because the job I was looking for was very specific, but I didn't realize it was a recording until the 3rd time I got the call. So I answered, "I want a job in telemarketing where I convince people to pay me for something they don't really want."
After a pause they hung up. I haven't received that call again...