This does not look good guys. Not sure if I can post a link to another site here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...cheme-1643662/
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This does not look good guys. Not sure if I can post a link to another site here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...cheme-1643662/
I can most say with a fairly high level of certainty that, yes, the Aruba Poker Players Championship is/was a scam and a ponzi scheme.
Here are the cliffs of the 2+2 thread posted above:
- There used to be a yearly tournament in Aruba sponsored by UB. This obviously fell apart when UB died, but two guys (Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh) started up a new tournament series called the Poker Players Championship to replace it.
- Eventually, as many as 14 other casinos were running PPC tournaments. All were in the eastern US. Even Harrah's North Kansas City was running PPC events.
- The PPC employed various people, including bloggers, journalists, and tournament staff members. Many of these people were slow-paid for various sums of money, including many small debts under $500.
- Many of the PPC events in the US involved satellites to the big Aruba tournament. While regular events had their money handled by the casinos where they took place (meaning the PPC couldn't steal it), satellites pay the tour operator (PPC), trusting that the event will actually take place.
- These satellite prizes also included travel expenses, which was to be reimbursed upon the player showing up to Aruba.
- This is the 5th year of the PPC. Each year, they have had an odd payout situation where the winners are only paid $10,000 maximum on the spot, and then are paid 15-20 days later back in the US. This obviously sounds very shady, but the excuse was the fact that you have to declare more than $10k cash brought back into the US, as well as their claim that it took 2-3 weeks to move the buyin money out of Aruba "due to Aruban law".
- Starting in 2015 (and perhaps earlier), the top winners in the even were slow-paid when back in the US. The winner, Vincent Fiorenza, apparently took months to receive the full $106k he won. However, Fiorenza supposedly only complained privately to friends, and never went public about it. This is not verified, but I believe it.
- It all came crashing down this year. The tournament took place in November 2016. The top 7 did not get paid more than $10k. Apparently they did pay the full $10,600 to Jose Montes (8th place), probably because it was so close to $10k. (This would seem to contradict their claim that they never pay more than $10k, though!) Everyone 9th and below also got paid, including Charder who cashed for $9k: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=376423 ... However, first place (Stephen Deutsch) was $133k, and apparently was not paid yet more than $10k, nor were any of the other top 7 finishers.
- Players were stalled as usual, but it's been 1 1/2 months, and nobody has been paid further.
- On November 21, Sandy (one of the owners) sent out a Facebook message looking for "investors" into the PPC. This was 2 weeks AFTER the event was complete, and people still hadn't been paid:
Quote:
Andy,
Hope all is well. Need to get you back to Aruba next year.
Based on our growth, we have an opportunity we wanted to send your way.
The PPC Poker Tour just wrapped up its most successful season yet.
PPC Poker Tour - Season 4 (2016)
* 30 events
* 10 states
* 5th annual PPC Aruba World Championship
* 2016 PPC Aruba Main Event prize pool - $554,743
As we move into 2017, our 5th tour season, we are at an exciting point of critical mass that will be take the tour from 30 stops nationwide to 50 in 2017, followed by 100 total in 2018. We will also be adding 2 additional scaled down Aruba events as well leading into our PPC Aruba World Championship in October of 2017. In addition, we are in talks with some high-end sponsors to become the "Title Sponsor" of the tour for years to come.
We are currently looking for our 2nd round of funding to take us to the next level. Investors that join our team will be coming in during our largest growth spurt to date. It's time that we take that big step to be the
largest poker tour in the world when it comes to overall stops.
For the first time since inception in 2010, we will be offering up to 50% equity in the PPC and are looking for a few new investors to push us to the next level. We both feel the time is right to bring on some new partners.
If you'd like us to send over more details, forward your email and we'll send our investment options next week.
Thanks again and wishing you a great holiday season.
Sincerely,
Sandy Swartzbaugh
Commissioner - PPC Poker Tour
sandy@ppcpokertour.com
Twitter: @ppcpokertour
Office: 954.773.8086
- Sandy Swartzbaugh and Bryan Oulton have since deleted their Twitter accounts, after initially blocking anyone asking them questons about the situation. They are deleting messages on the PPC's Facebook page asking about the money. They are not answering to anyone, but are receiving Facebook communications.
- Many reports have since surfaced on 2+2 regarding shady behavior of both owners.
- Even PFA Radio's friendly "competition" (Mark Hoke) was apparently a victim. He was hired as a reporter for a subsequent PPC Event (Marlyand Live! Champion of Champions), where Sandy and Mike apparently ducked out early and vanished, likely due to heat regarding owing all kinds of money to people. (They claimed they were going to a Ravens football game, and never came back.) This was posted on 2+2 regarding Hoke, by a guy named Richard Hebert, who once worked at Maryland Live as a tournament director:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Hebert
Here are Sandy Swartzbaugh and Bryan Oulton (left and right, respectively. The guy sitting is a tournament winner.)
http://www.adamrichardson.com/Bryan-...am-artists.jpg
I'm amazed at how stupid some poker players are.
While I'm not sure how many knew they wouldn't get more than $10k on the spot, those that knew it should have raised red flags immediately.
In fact, even if people got paid in prior years, they should have raised a red flag on this situation.
First off, the reason for not paying people on the spot ("$10k cash limit to be brought back to the states") is garbage. You can bring whatever you want, but just have to declare it. This is the player's problem, and not the tour's problem, so the players should always be paid in full unless they request otherwise. There are countless foreign tours, and the PPC Aruba is the only tour where people were only paid a maximum of $10k on the spot. How did smart, experienced tournament pros like Charder fall for this line of crap?
Second, even if they're blaming the government of Aruba for the long delay (authorizing the movement of the money from the casino in Aruba to the tour in the US), how do they explain how the previous incarnation of the tour (when it was affiliated with UB) paid people in full on the spot? Nobody bothered to ask this?
Did anyone even bother to approach the casino and ask if there was any law preventing them from being paid on the spot?
It sounds to me like these were likable conmen (everyone kept posting how they were "chill guys" and "really nice" -- just like most scammers), and nobody wanted to ask these tough questions about this ridiculous, non-standard situation.
If I knew about this "pay $10k now, get the rest later in the US in a few weeks" nonsense, I would have cried foul about this long ago.
Instead, we had to wait until people got scammed for this nonsensical payout scheme to be made public.
There really is a sucker born every minute.
I feel sorry for the victims, especially the ones who didn't know they wouldn't be paid on the spot. Imagine winning $133k in a live tournament, only to learn later you'll never see $123k of it.
Still, if you ever see any weird, non-standard behavior from any poker tournament which isn't fully backed by a major casino in the US, you need to run the other way.
One other thing I should point out.
Unless you own the venues where these tournament take place (or unless the venue agrees to let you run it there for free), the profit margins on these poker tours is pretty low.
If you have to pay for bloggers and other extraneous employees, the profit margins are even lower, or perhaps even disappear.
If you are paying for travel expenses for satellite winners (unless these travel expenses are built into the prize pool of the satellites), those profit margins get even lower.
And if you want to live an extravagant lifestyle on the earnings through the above, you're not going to be able to, and will likely find yourself tempted to find ways to steal or "borrow from" the prize money if you're a piece of shit and lack morals.
Basically there are only three ways to run a highly profitable poker tour:
1) Own the venue, like the WSOP does
2) Make money through media partnerships, like the WPT does/did
3) Arrange favorable deals with the venues and manage everything properly from a business standpoint, like Pokerstars/EPT does/did
These fly-by-night "poker tours" will finish in the red (or barely make any money) if they're simply renting space or splitting proceeds with the venues, and then paying their own expenses.
Also, with most of the players (presumably) being ones who satellited in, how did these guys even explain why all the cash was stuck in Aruba?
Satellited players' buyins were still in the owners' coffers in the US the whole time. There wasn't money to be moved.
Just amazes me what stupid lines poker players will fall for, provided they think "the games are good".
both owners twitter accounts were deleted in the last 24-48 hours and seems that they are scrapping their website as well...
hope these guys get a little chocolate lovin' behind bars...
You've got the midget Hercules and the guy who ate all the profits right there folks.
Weird... Bryan Oulton's father killed his mom in 2010 with a mallet.
The reason he stated?
She was "interfering with Bryan's poker tour".
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...924-story.html
Too bad she isn't still alive. Perhaps some more interference would have prevented this.
I wonder if she saw him doing shady things back then, gave him a hard time about it, and his dad freaked out and beat her to death with a mallet.
Florida, everyone.
With all due respect, look in the mirror sir. You live in the most socialist state in the world. I'll take a mallet to the head to your politics any day of the week. You're so embarrassed you can't even vote because you know it means shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Bardah and Massey used to be some of the pros that would play in the Foxwoods PPC events. Thanks to the fail owners, not a good look for them
Here is a quick list of all properties that ran PPC events in 2016 that have patrons probably affected by the reimbursement:
Foxwoods
Maryland Live
Tampa Bay Downs
The Isle Pompano Park
Tampa Greyhound Track
Daytona Beach Kennel Club
Ho-Chuck Gaming Wisconsin
Naples/Ft Myers Greyhound
Horseshoe Tunica
St. Croix Casino Turtle Lake
Magic City Casino Miami
Playground Poker Club
Horseshoe Council Bluffs
Harrah's North Kansas City
met this sandy guy a cpl years playing some cash and joked around with him. He went on a hilarious rant how much he hates his job dealing with casino stooges all the time, I massively LMAO
Can't blame Bardah or Massey at all for this... unless they knew something before the rest of us did (which I've seen no evidence as such).
I don't like Massey. He was a dick to me at a WSOP table. However, he has never been accused of any dishonest or scammy behavior, and has a good reputation as far as I know.
I like Ronnie Bardah. Friendly, upbeat guy, and never been part of any scandal.
Looks like they just took a job with a crappy poker tour.
Anyone who won a 2017 satellite seat in one of the US based casinos, I would suggest you approach the casino and demand cash for the full value of the package, including travel.
They have reduced their website down to a placeholder at this point: http://ppcpokertour.com/
Between that, the deleted Twitter, and the countless stories/posts on the web about the scam that was the 2016 Aruba PPC, it's clear that this thing isn't happening. Even if it does, nobody should be expected to want to play in it (after all, you probably won't get paid if you win!)
The casinos running PPC events (such as Maryland Live) bear some responsibility here. While they probably have limited (or no) liability for what occurs at the Aruba PPC, they do have the requirement to make sure the prize you're awarded on their property is indeed redeemable. In this case, it is not.
If they refuse, you should contact the gaming commission overseeing the casino immediately, as well as threaten to take this to the media.
Everyone could check within 20 minutes that you have to report the export of more than US $11,000 to the custom in Aruba, that is all.
The satelites played at casinos in the US had terms and conditions. Check the terms and conditions...
Was the PPC a "satelite only" live tournament or were players able to pay the buy in at the cashier of the casino? Usually the casino who perfom the main event collect the buy ins, announce the prizes and pays the prizes. There might be a liability of the casino in Aruba. Might be worth to check.
Good point. I wonder if anyone called the casino about this yet and questioned why THEY didn't pay the prize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Protect
Unless players agreed in advance to allow Bryan and Sandy pay them, I agree this seems like they may be liable.
I mentioned on radio that the players may also have remedy by complaining to Hilton corporate, as the tournament took place at the Hilton in Palm Beach, Aruba. It's probably a franchise, but corporate can still assert standards and pressure upon it.
They also gave 4 free seats to the 2016 Aruba event to 4 DJs during some satellite event promo: http://ppcpokertour.com/2016/04/20/3...cc-ppcseason4/
Pretty easy to give away "free" seats when you never actually contribute the money to the prizepool.
Looks like they've been hit with a lawsuit
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2017/...rder-26695.htm
I'm friends with Mark Hoke and have asked him if he would come on the Fraud show to talk about this. He said he would entertain the idea once he has permission from his attorney to speak about it publicly.
Good to see the suit also involves Maryland Live!Quote:
Originally Posted by AhoosierA
They should be forced to cough up. at the very least, the full value of the packages won for 2017.
http://www.flushdraw.net/news/more-d...nings-lawsuit/Quote:
Flushdraw has now obtained several court documents associated with the case, including the proper list of counts brought in the civil case against each of the defendants. Initial reports summed up the allegations as “fraud, misrepresentation, conversion of money/property, negligence, breach of promise, violation of consumer protection act, unjust enrichment, and fraudulent conveyance.” Six separate defendants, either individuals or corporate entities, were named, with additional “John Doe” defendants allowing for room for additional persons or businesses to be added at a later date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzmoney
interesting that they're using Uncle RICO in a civil suit.
I didn't know I could sue someone for violating the RICO act, without having actually been convicted of any RICO predicates.
Am i missing something? Have these guys been convicted of any criminal doings yet? or is this just a civil proceeding from the start.
also, the RICO thing is a bit far leaning, as it seems to be just these 2 guys involved in the actual scheme, anyone else was an unknowing participant. that doesn't mean ML isn't liable for some negligence, but i fail to see where more than 2 people counts as a RICO predicate, let alone a conspiracy.
Did meanwhile anyone ask the casino in Aruba, where they played and where they won the prizes, why they did not receive their prizes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffGood point. I wonder if anyone called the casino about this yet and questioned why THEY didn't pay the prize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Protect
Unless players agreed in advance to allow Bryan and Sandy pay them, I agree this seems like they may be liable.
I mentioned on radio that the players may also have remedy by complaining to Hilton corporate, as the tournament took place at the Hilton in Palm Beach, Aruba. It's probably a franchise, but corporate can still assert standards and pressure upon it.
Franchise: You mean they rent their casino infrastructure to the PPC? I doubt that a live casino license allow such a behaviour. IMO Hilton casino has to pay the prizes, except winners would have given to the casino the order to give their prizes to someone else. But nothing is mentioned about this on 2+2.
Second lawsuit was filed a few days back, this one against Tampa Bay Downs. Link: http://www.flushdraw.net/news/ppc-le...mpa-bay-downs/
Plaintiffs are the original four from first lawsuit, plus second-place Aruba finisher James Beadnell.
In layman's terms, suit alleges that the PPC were/are a criminal organization. No previous RICO conviction is necessary to file this suit. Guilt will be decided, then civil penalties assessed or waived.Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryLafferQuote:
Originally Posted by Shizzmoney
interesting that they're using Uncle RICO in a civil suit.
I didn't know I could sue someone for violating the RICO act, without having actually been convicted of any RICO predicates.
Am i missing something? Have these guys been convicted of any criminal doings yet? or is this just a civil proceeding from the start.
also, the RICO thing is a bit far leaning, as it seems to be just these 2 guys involved in the actual scheme, anyone else was an unknowing participant. that doesn't mean ML isn't liable for some negligence, but i fail to see where more than 2 people counts as a RICO predicate, let alone a conspiracy.
Capisce?
lol, what a disaster.
I don't have a list of all of the locations where satellite/feeder events were held for this debacle last year, but I noticed North Kansas City was mentioned.
Different state gaming commissions will have differing levels of interest in this whole thing. I'm certainly not a lawyer, but IMO the players' best shot at getting somewhere is to file suit in one of the Midwestern states where the gaming commissions tend to be a bit more heavy-handed from a regulatory standpoint. Missouri is certainly one of those states.
Of course I realize that this doesn't directly help the players who won their seats elsewhere, but it could bring some additional pressure to bear on the other locations to make it right.
You suggest to file a lawsuit for the travel expenses they did not receive?Quote:
Originally Posted by go_buccos
I would focus on the prizes won in the Hilton casino in Aruba. And for this it does not play any role whether you won the entry thru a satellite or paid the entry fee directly at the cashier of the casino. As soon as the casino give you a place in the tournament, your entry fee is paid. I at least never heard that a casino give you an entry to their live tournament on credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game ProtectYou suggest to file a lawsuit for the travel expenses they did not receive?Quote:
Originally Posted by go_buccos
I would focus on the prizes won in the Hilton casino in Aruba. And for this it does not play any role whether you won the entry thru a satellite or paid the entry fee directly at the cashier of the casino. As soon as the casino give you a place in their live tournament, your entry fee is paid. I at least never heard that a casino give you an entry to their tournament on credit.
BUMP
Bryan Oulton files for bankrupty: http://www.flushdraw.net/news/ppc-co...cy-protection/
Most laughable is how the PPC originally got funded through a small business loan from Small Business Owners of America.
"Small Business Owners of America is here to assist in all aspects of starting, running and funding a business" -- http://sbooa.com
Actually, unlike most poker-based businesses, the PPC could have been a decent cash cow if managed properly.
But it wasn't, so here we are.
Still amazing how people kept playing despite knowing about the slow paying in previous years.
BUMP
They are trying to get poker tournaments going at the Hilton Aruba again, and are attempting to bribe poker pros to play for free and be the "stars" of the event.
The person in "white" is an employee there, working under GM Marc Charley.
He is attempting to get a female poker pro (not a very well known one) to be the "face" of this event. She isn't gong for it.
Reportedly the poker room at Hilton Aruba was bought out by the PPC awhile back. It is not clear who owns it now.
I don't understand. Seems like the messages were between a player and the poker room manager, not the GM.
Can you share who player is and her response?
Sorry, I fixed it. It wasn't the GM.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
She was never considering taking this, but was probing for info to share with people like me.
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2020/...ent=position_6Quote:
In 2017, Oulton filed for bankruptcy in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Florida. According to documents, he had $890,000 in debt with only $414K in assets, and at the time was unemployed with no source of income.
Since then, Oulton completed the bankruptcy process and finalized a divorce earlier this month, which is also when Oulton’s legal representation filed an application for compensation, thus closing out the infamous poker chapter in Outlon’s life.
As for Swartzbaugh, he did not go the bankruptcy route and instead reached a settlement agreement with the plaintiffs in 2017.
In essence, Oulton and Swartzbaugh both agreed to pay back $60,000 each. Of that, $20,000 must be paid back over 50 months in $400 installments in order for the damaged party to not seek further relief. Toss in the settlement from Tampa Bay Downs and that means the Plaintiffs recouped $200,000 of the nearly $300K due to them. Additionally, there is nearly $2 million in combined judgments against PPC-related entities, though collecting on that is highly unlikely given said entities are no longer in business.