Couldn't happen to nicer companies.
From "we're not gambling sites" to "our employees don't have access to confidential info" to "newbs can win at our site", almost everything they say is a lie.
http://deadspin.com/report-draftking...-ha-1788131122
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Couldn't happen to nicer companies.
From "we're not gambling sites" to "our employees don't have access to confidential info" to "newbs can win at our site", almost everything they say is a lie.
http://deadspin.com/report-draftking...-ha-1788131122
Story is hands down bull shit!
Companies are free-rolling on Hedge fun and Vulture Capital money they arent hurting for cashQuote:
Originally Posted by VegasJim
In reality, there is plenty more in the tank from them investors who arent going to eat the massive loss they've incurred up to this point. Both fanduel and Draftkings their lobbyists etc all know this. So what they are doing by playing pauper a little here, is actually to project an image of being weak so the Attorney General of NY, and possibly others go lite on them with a fine.
Genius level play actually, wouldnt doubt Deadspin is a puppett in it even if unbeknost to them actually. A play on DK/fanduels part and their smart money backers. nothing dirty and ilegal to underplay youre hand its part of the game. They have plenty more money behind from the VCs/Hedge funners who dont want to eat the massive loss up to this point, and are in it for the long haul. They believe in DFS actually the money peoples.
basically imo this is DK and fanduel posturing to appear vulnerable so they get hit with a ligter fine from the AG (or AGs)
Real smart actually minimize the hit they take in NY, reorganize VCs and hedge funners will come out with another round once this is all in the rear view mirror you can take that to the bank, promise. This isnt dumbmoney way to sophisticated to play an ABC game and this isnt an ABC line necessarily to try and reduce youre monetary penalties fomr State AGs. Maybe theyll have some mercy on them and hit them with a reduced fine.DK and fanduel using the rope-a-dope line here feigning weak, and in reality theres plenty of $ behind imo, from the same places its been coming from.
real smart actually to try and keep them fines lower...
feigning pauper :D
This will be great for competition:
I wish there was a DFS site where I could bet on future rake increases
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzmoney
The people who control the purse strings control these companies, the few with the biggest chunks have the most say. Word on the street seems to be they want fanduel and Draftkings to merge. Jon Kraft (Patriots owner family) wants them to merge. One would think these big name power investors are very close in contact with the other big backers, the tone you get is they want fanduel and Drafktings to merge.
Competition wise in regards to fairness and level playing field, is where they really have gotten it all wrong. It's mind-boggling some of it, but thats what you get with these type of people running the company. More so with Jason Robbins and Draftkings, Probably has a cute piece of paper and some bullshit other cute things on resume which look fancy, but when dealing with people guy has no spine id bet. If he had a spine he would have fired Ethan Haskelle after the initial scandal, he didnt. He lets things marinate and fester, bc he is weak. And then imo, the Companies are then weak or that company. Id think hedge fun and vulture cap real bosses could smell weakness eventually.
They hired way too many puppets so their is no real chain of command in a way. It seems they function as this more organic unit as a whole, and then basically listen to the Top 1% of players, who are all buddies and usually in business with one another. Worst people to be listening to in how the games should function obviously. Not here though lol...
They need changes in leadership, real changes at the core and a competently different ecosystem competition wise. Wont be easy but it can happen not under this previous group of pinheads though they are doomed to fail as is. I blame largely those faults, and they've gone on for years now so they are inexcusable on the companies part. Shows a real lack of good leadership, Jason Robbins in this case.
I really hope this is true, and I really hope they come crashing down.
I have never been on either site, so it's not a matter of any kind of personal beef.
I just don't think either company is honest. I haven't liked the arrogant and dismissive way they've handled their scandals, and I'm not just talking about the one involving employees using data from their own site to set lineups on the other.
They failed the self-regulating model really, really badly.
The companies are being run by computer geeks with no clue about ethics and fairness.
There have already been plenty of scandals in a very short time.
They constantly go into bullshit and cover-up mode whenever a scandal is unearthed.
They completely mislead casual players regarding their chances to win, hoping that these players don't realize there are pros using automated tools to basically make winning impossible there for the average player.
This is different than poker to where winning is primarily skill-based, and where allowed automated tools (such as Poker Tracker) only give you a small additional edge. Automated tools are HUGE on DFS.
The fact that either company thought it was okay to allow employees with access to lineup data to play on the other major site was mind-boggling.
I would love to see both of these companies flop badly, and then their former executives can cry themselves to sleep at night, shedding tears of their own hubris.
A lot of money was pushed into that overly aggressive advertising last year. Many of the professional sports teams cut their contribution once state bans were coming in and the sites had to spend a lot in legal fees fighting for their right to continue to operate.
I small time play DFS for fun and it's tough to beat.
One huge problem the sites won't correct is letting professionals register it up with scripts that these pros are doing for all stakes.
An example I will give is I fired off $100 worth of lineups in $1 to $3 double ups where 34 people enter and 15 get paid (site keeps 4 players worth as rake).
These games should be soft enough for a beginner to novice to come in and with some research be able to cash a decent amount of the time showing some profit because other people will do no research at all.
Double Ups are considered cash games along with head to head play where the strategy is to put players in your lineup that will likely be solid safe plays based on match ups, workload estimation (targets, rush attempts),etc... These can be a lot of chalk plays (overly used players) versus tournaments where you might use a few chalk plays but are looking to differentiate yourself taking shots on players who have a high floor (really boom but could bust).
Normally I could cash with 130 points in this format in this format but this week I had over 165 points and finished most of my entries out of the money.
As I register I can look at who is in there and I will see the same pros because they can fire with scripts, bulk entry options,etc... The way a pro looks at it is attacking beginner players so they will play thousands of these because it's all about how much action they can get in. If the games are filling up why not beat up on the beginner money before others do?
So how does this hurt a site like DraftKings?
If a beginner gets smashed, redeposits, gets smashed again, and then again they are eventually going to stop playing so the company might lose a customer for life when they realize they have no hope.
In poker you want a fresh depositor to stay in action until you can rake them up along with them coming back for more because their money lasted a while. This is the same for DFS but unlike poker playing a bunch of games requires no physical work of actually taking time to play a game to beat the fish so the pro is taking the money very quickly before draftkings can even rake that player a bunch.
Once the pro makes their money they are cashing out regularly and you'll lose those rec customers for life before they even generate income for the site.
It's amazing how stupid these sites are to allow this to happen but they continue to do so.
A lot of former poker pros are DFS pros now and two of them I saw in several of my entries using the EXACT same lineup (surely they aren't sharing info lol).
I played these for cheap entertainment but after this weekend putting up good scores and losing I'm probably done if I bust my account.
If someone has to spend several hours a day for the week and have access to certain tools in order to beat the small timer $1 and $3 double ups because pros are attacking them then we have a serious problem here, yet the sites continue to allow this.
Once you make a certain amount on a DFS site you should be banned from playing certain small stakes games. When you hit the next level of profit your minimum buyin game should be bumped up again, etc...
You can't put the blame the pros because it only makes sense to do what they are doing since the sites allow them to do so and until DFS sites wise up like poker sites have they will struggle.
Robbins went to Duke - which explains everything, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy
another LOL are the experience badges that make it hysterically easy to pick apart beginners in the H2H lobbies...
if you see this and you are a pro, who the fuck are you going to play? I mean those guys stick out like a sore thumb...but the attorney generals made it so the sites had to put on these experience badges...ok they make you stay away from guys like saahil (the best player) and aejones (won $5MM in their live NFL contest last year), but they draw you instantaneously to the guy without the badge...and usually these guys are legit horrible beginners who will be picked apart insanely easily by a pro...I played one guy last night who used both of his RB spots and FLEX spot with SEA RBs, one of whom was going to be inactive and not even accrue points...with a lineup construction like that he's legit drawing to a 1 outer on the river in terms of the pro lineup sustaining multiple injuries...
these companies are fucking stupid...they cater to the pros who put in a ton of volume which is fucking retarded...yeah if the pros leave the prize pools shrink and the companies go under...but these are PROS...they derive their income from playing DFS...they aint going anywhere...these sites should be catering to the recs, but I think the ship might have sailed on that one with all the shit they are fighting right now...they should look to pokerstars...they're fucking over the pros bigtime, but the pros are still playing there...they have to...
Kind of the same as the poker sites which realized its not the high rake grinding pros you need to cater to. It's the depositors, not the withdrawers, that make a poker or DFS site successfulQuote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
someone better tell 2+2 because there's a HUGE fan duel ad on their site lol
in all honesty, fuck these companies
throwing poker under the bus.
100%...Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpiperKind of the same as the poker sites which realized its not the high rake grinding pros you need to cater to. It's the depositors, not the withdrawers, that make a poker or DFS site successfulQuote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
I put in decent volume on DK (not even a drop in the bucket compared to what these pros do) and am profitable...last year I received offers to get free tickets to some philly sporting events...I don't know if they have curbed these offers (I have a sneaky suspicion they have) or raised the bar to get them, but I should be one of the last people to be getting these offers...instead of giving all these freebies to the winning, high volume players, they should have been giving these things to their biggest depositors...just like a casino...its not that tough...but the "bro culture" (as you saw on the commercials last year) was prevalent at these places and they fucked up in that aspect of their marketing...now they're paying for it..
the merger of DK and FD is coming...only a matter of time...DK recently instituted a rule not allowing late swaps for all their NBA contests, mirroring FD...for those that don't know, if a slate starts at 7PM ET but includes 1030PM ET games you could still tinker with the players that hadn't played yet even after 7PM ET...they still are keeping the swap feature for all other sports, but have curiously changed it for the NBA citing "this is what the players want"...
Maybe.. Then again any of us who worked for some hot start up during the dot com boom and then BUST.. I worked for a company that was burning though a shitton of funds and we in direct network server dept saw it coming.. We figured payroll wise they were burning through 300k+ for only 100 employees every 2 weeks. considering there were a large amount of small payees we figured the high ups were paying themselves shittons and lighting it all on fire.. Could be DK and FD are following the same idiotic logic.. Their ad budget has to been massive to begin with.. and considering they lost a huge water trough of players in NY some of this might not be as bullshit as people thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by buzzyCompanies are free-rolling on Hedge fun and Vulture Capital money they arent hurting for cashQuote:
Originally Posted by VegasJim
In reality, there is plenty more in the tank from them investors who arent going to eat the massive loss they've incurred up to this point. Both fanduel and Draftkings their lobbyists etc all know this. So what they are doing by playing pauper a little here, is actually to project an image of being weak so the Attorney General of NY, and possibly others go lite on them with a fine.
Genius level play actually, wouldnt doubt Deadspin is a puppett in it even if unbeknost to them actually. A play on DK/fanduels part and their smart money backers. nothing dirty and ilegal to underplay youre hand its part of the game. They have plenty more money behind from the VCs/Hedge funners who dont want to eat the massive loss up to this point, and are in it for the long haul. They believe in DFS actually the money peoples.
basically imo this is DK and fanduel posturing to appear vulnerable so they get hit with a ligter fine from the AG (or AGs)
Real smart actually minimize the hit they take in NY, reorganize VCs and hedge funners will come out with another round once this is all in the rear view mirror you can take that to the bank, promise. This isnt dumbmoney way to sophisticated to play an ABC game and this isnt an ABC line necessarily to try and reduce youre monetary penalties fomr State AGs. Maybe theyll have some mercy on them and hit them with a reduced fine.DK and fanduel using the rope-a-dope line here feigning weak, and in reality theres plenty of $ behind imo, from the same places its been coming from.
real smart actually to try and keep them fines lower...
feigning pauper :D
trying to figure out where that is going...obviously last year was insanity as their ads were on every fucking commercial break of every football game in the beginning of the season...this year to be honest have seen their ads, but it's fairly minimal at this point...Quote:
Originally Posted by ftpjesus
aejones is one of the people sitting everything like the $1 and $3 double ups. Guys who have won a ton on a site should not be able to do rape noobs at the lowest stakes possible but will continue to do so because the sites let them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
All the pro is doing is making it way more difficult for any rec to ever move up and after a few deposits that contained mostly losing the rec will quit playing DFS before DK/FD even make anything off this player, who should be their target audience as they keep new/more money flowing on the site for them to rake.
It's amazing how stupid they are and mind blowing to a point where you have to wonder if a bunch of the owners are still playing on the competition because they have to make money somewhere. The rake is very high and pros are still crushing the recs so fast the sites aren't seeing enough of it because their isn't enough trading back and forth between beginner/rec players.
I try to look at games manually where 10 people or so have none of those badges in a 34 entrant double up and it's very difficult to do so these days. The pro just auto registers over and over again at any stake because the site allows them to do so. Perhaps they don't want to piss these pros off because the same ones putting so much action in smaller stakes cash are firing 100 millionaire lineups each week but still you have to draw a line somewhere.
I will enjoy the death of these sites, not because of any personal feelings of my own about them, but because garrett loved them so. Not proud of that fact really, but I must admit, it was 100% my first thought when I saw this thread's title.
yup...there are entry limits on 50/50s at the lower stakes, but not the double ups because they are guaranteed contests...so a pro can enter every single $1 and $3 double up because DK doesn't want to be left on the hook for a few washingtons...genius business practice there...Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPokeraejones is one of the people sitting everything like the $1 and $3 double ups. Guys who have won a ton on a site should not be able to do rape noobs at the lowest stakes possible but will continue to do so because the sites let them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
All the pro is doing is making it way more difficult for any rec to ever move up and after a few deposits that contained mostly losing the rec will quit playing DFS before DK/FD even make anything off this player, who should be their target audience as they keep new/more money flowing on the site for them to rake.
It's amazing how stupid they are and mind blowing to a point where you have to wonder if a bunch of the owners are still playing on the competition because they have to make money somewhere. The rake is very high and pros are still crushing the recs so fast the sites aren't seeing enough of it because their isn't enough trading back and forth between beginner/rec players.
I try to look at games manually where 10 people or so have none of those badges in a 34 entrant double up and it's very difficult to do so these days. The pro just auto registers over and over again at any stake because the site allows them to do so. Perhaps they don't want to piss these pros off because the same ones putting so much action in smaller stakes cash are firing 100 millionaire lineups each week but still you have to draw a line somewhere.
I would love to see these sites go under, or for the government to shut them down. I hate how they love to advertise that they aren't gambling, because they are skill based games unlike poker and sports betting. I remember seeing a ridiculous interview with an executive for one of these sites, where he explained why dfs is a skill game, and poker is a gambling game based on luck. I don't even remember his arguements, but it was completely ridiculous.
The problem with daily fantasy is that the average player is playing at a disadvantage 5x higher than roulette in most cases.
How big is Yahoo!'s fantasy sports? I can't find a good article.
Everyone I know uses Yahoo.
It seems a fantastic way to keep users glued to the site. Imagine a world were your phone provider escrowed the money? I guess I am imagining a free market utopian world in some other galaxy.
Yahoo's DFS offering is behind the big two....although you could make a claim it is the 3rd site just because of the sheer numbers of users it can advertise to. I think its part of the reason Verizon wants to buy it: if DFS/fantasy/sports gambling becomes more legalized in states, they can start offering it within the television/cable/internet platform ala SkyBet betting on its cable provider, SkySports, in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
As for year long, Yahoo was really the first site to start offering fantasy sports. I am still in baseball and football leagues on Yahoo with the same users from 2002. Yahoo is also popular for work leagues (especially pick ems) as most folks have a Yahoo email account. They just recently started to allow user with non-Yahoo emails to play. They were also the first with an app on phone.
Players have started to migrate, however. ESPN (whose site I don't care for, personally), passed Yahoo! Sports in Fantasy Football Subscribers For First Time in 2013.
I've always contended that Yahoo's fantasy website is really one of the only things keeping the fail site afloat, because it drives so much (grandfathered) revenue in terms of user traffic for both its games and the content it produces with fantasy touts who have been writing on there for years. It's the best site when it comes to fantasy information, IMO.
http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/08/yahoo-sports-revenue/
Quote:
Yahoo!’s sports property generate millions
Analysts Mark May, Kevin Allen and Nathaniel Brogadir report that their contacts suggest Yahoo! Inc. (NASDAQ:YHOO)’s sports property alone generates between $100 million and $200 million in annual revenue. They said about 60 percent of that revenue comes from the search giant’s fantasy sports franchise.
The analysts also note that they’ve “heard and seen numerous ads” which focus on Yahoo’s fantasy sports. They said this “more significant marketing push” could mean that Yahoo sees sports as an important part of its turnaround, especially as it pushes its services toward mobile.
IBISWorld estimates that Americans spend more than $1 billion every year on fantasy sports. NFL-based fantasy football makes up more than 36 percent of that amount. Also growth adds up to about 10 to 12 percent every year.
The merger might be finally happening, Robins to be the CEO :
So this $12 million going to the NY attorney general.... I assume that goes into NY State coffers, and not back to the players who were duped?
Slightly off topic but...
In 2013 Marco from QuadSnakes did this interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pFQvEZlrt0
It was after the snake left I believe but anyways Eric Crain was the winner of this weeks Draft Kings Millionaire Maker. He got 3rd and 4th as well with his 150 entries.
Eric hasn't been focusing on DFS for long (maybe a year or so) but has been successful enough in his time. He is part of the rotogrinders team.
Build that BR to withstand some swings, fire a bunch of lineups that hopefully return you profits or get you close to even, and eventually have that week where you crush it: