Goodbye 2+2, nice knowing you

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Table Shows ROI for big WSOP players
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ayers-1418516/

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Originally Posted by gauchojake

In other thread related news I am almost positive I saw NiN driving near Main and Pico last Monday in a white Toyota.

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You mean Trent Reznor?

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

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Originally Posted by gauchojake

In other thread related news I am almost positive I saw NiN driving near Main and Pico last Monday in a white Toyota.

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You mean Trent Reznor?

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Team Razor?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Thought Mason and I had buried the hatchet, but apparently not.

Once again, I am being banned for something that has nothing to do with his forum.

Mason doesn't like this thread where I originally posted a third-party's accusation regarding the Palms poker manager stealing promo money.

The manager himself showed up, gave his side, and I conclude that it seemed to me that he didn't actually steal promo money. However, many questions still remain regarding the legality of the way the manager used the funds, as well as whether he was violating Palms rules by what he did.

Various people directly or indirectly connected to the matter showed up on PFA to comment on it, and there were people on both sides of the argument.

I retracted the one statement I no longer believed to be true (that he stole anything), but did not issue an actual apology, because I wanted to see the way the entire thing played out. Indeed, there are a lot of unanswered questions that the public deserves answered.

Someone on 2+2 (nobody I know) linked this thread. Owner Mason Malmuth posted a nasty message there, stating that PFA has too small of a readership for anyone to really care about this (not true), and that I owe the guy an apology.

I promised an apology once the situation fully plays out, if I feel an apology is warranted at that point.

Without further warning (or any real developments today), I showed up on 2+2 and found this:

http://toddwitteles.com/pics/2plus2ban.png

So now Mason is forcing me to make a "full and sincere apology" to a third party that is unconnected to him.

If you remember, my last 2+2 ban was because a friend (not even me) posted some unflattering things about David Sklansky on Neverwinpoker. Again, this was banning me for actions on another site (and not even my site or my actions), but at least you can mildly understand it, because David is an important 2+2 author, and because I was a mod on Neverwinpoker at the time.

Here, Mason is banning me for not apologizing on MY SITE to a guy he probably has never even met before.

F him.

I enjoy 2+2, but I'm not going to grovel or let Mason control me. I was providing a lot of good content there, and to be honest, a lot of the good 2+2 posters are long gone nowadays. If Mason thinks 2+2 is better without me, that's fine.

I won't be creating any fake accounts there. I just won't be posting there anymore unless the ban is lifted.

This is probably a win for Lock Poker (as I won't be participating in that thread anymore), but their goose is pretty much cooked anyway, and there are plenty of knowledgable posters in that thread to make up for my absence.

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Lol I missed this thread. He would probably post or pin the apology letter like he did with Dutch Boyd. I bumped this thread because 2 plus 2 is a ghost town. I check every 3 days or so to see what is going on, just crickets. There were 2 poker sites advertising Global Poker and Bet on line they are gone, poof. Mason is a huge douche he was lucky to get out. Wonder how much he got.

Yes, I referenced how 2+2 seemed to be declining, but this was back in 2014. Now it really is close to a ghost town.

Not only that, but they have zero discussion of a lot of poker topics and controversies of the day. That would be unheard of in the past, where any interesting or notable poker story (even gossip) would warrant a massive thread.

Even though Mason still posts there, he is no longer the owner. The Ukrainians running it now seem fairly reasonable, but it looks like they've kinda checked out and never did anything with it. I believe it was an impulse buy for way too much money. Not sure where they got the funds, as they were young. Maybe crypto. The last communication I had with one of them was their polite message to me that they'd have to ban me if I continued trolling Mason. I responded agreeing not to antagonize Mason anymore, with the caveat that I would respond in kind if he insulted me. They said that was reasonable and thanked me for my cooperation.

I only log in there once every few weeks, and rarely post.

Oh, and for those unfamiliar, after this 2014 thread, I was eventually let back on via an agreement brokered by Mason's lawyer (his idea, not mine), only to have Mason break that agreement after he attacked me and PFA and didn't like my response. I'm back on because the site got sold, but now I post as Dan_Druff. The "Kilowatt" account is still banned.

Funny true story about 2+2….About 2 years ago, I posted on here that I think Druff should save PFA and remove all personal attacks from the site, Druff disagreed. I suggested this because personal attacks kill any forum board.

But then, the new owners of 2+2 were cruising PFA, saw what I wrote and went back to 2+2 and implemented my suggestion. It was not well received at 2+2 and Druff even reviewed the change in PFA radio.

Funny how a nobody like me posted a suggestion and it happened on another site and even made radio.

Shut the fuck up already

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Yes, I referenced how 2+2 seemed to be declining, but this was back in 2014. Now it really is close to a ghost town.

Not only that, but they have zero discussion of a lot of poker topics and controversies of the day. That would be unheard of in the past, where any interesting or notable poker story (even gossip) would warrant a massive thread.

Even though Mason still posts there, he is no longer the owner. The Ukrainians running it now seem fairly reasonable, but it looks like they've kinda checked out and never did anything with it. I believe it was an impulse buy for way too much money. Not sure where they got the funds, as they were young. Maybe crypto. The last communication I had with one of them was their polite message to me that they'd have to ban me if I continued trolling Mason. I responded agreeing not to antagonize Mason anymore, with the caveat that I would respond in kind if he insulted me. They said that was reasonable and thanked me for my cooperation.

I only log in there once every few weeks, and rarely post.

Oh, and for those unfamiliar, after this 2014 thread, I was eventually let back on via an agreement brokered by Mason's lawyer (his idea, not mine), only to have Mason break that agreement after he attacked me and PFA and didn't like my response. I'm back on because the site got sold, but now I post as Dan_Druff. The "Kilowatt" account is still banned.

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Todd lets revisit that one briefly…

you kinda forgot to mention the circumstances that resulted in ‘Kilowatt’ being exiled from 2+2

I can recall the details quite vividly, considering that I was the one personally responsible

You made the mistake of stirring up a non-existent scandal involving a some random dealer scamming funds (was Venetian if I recall) with no proof presented

It kind of irritated me, so I started blasting you basically saying that if you were going to thrust a drama like that into the spotlight, you better be prepared to offer more than he-said she-said innuendos

You proceeded to dox my full name in the thread, and attempted to dismiss me as a ‘troll’, but I persisted in pointing out that accusations demand proof

The community was overwhelmingly in agreement, and shortly after refusing to apologize for making said baseless accusations, the moderators dropped the hammer on our old friend ‘Kilowatt’

and yes it turns out that in the end, there was zero evidence to support your accusations, and no scamming scandal ever existed in the first place

It was a few years ago, so I don’t recall all the details surrounding the nature of the scam/theft…

but I do vaguely remember something about tourney fees…the gist of it was you attempted to jump start a ‘scandal’ that had no substance to it, and it pissed me off

naturally I was banned here at the time

OK just catching up now to the circumstances and re-reading some of that fiasco LOL

yea it was the casino manager not a random dealer

I never really dove too deeply into every facet of this episode at the time, and didn’t really care one way or the other

but I do remember feeling very strongly that if you are going to attack someone and/or accuse them of theft publicly, you better have some fucking proof

that goes for Druff, or anyone else for that matter

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Originally Posted by Tyde

OK just catching up now to the circumstances and re-reading some of that fiasco LOL

yea it was the casino manager not a random dealer

I never really dove too deeply into every facet of this episode at the time, and didn’t really care one way or the other

but I do remember feeling very strongly that if you are going to attack someone and/or accuse them of theft publicly, you better have some fucking proof

that goes for Druff, or anyone else for that matter

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Here was some of your better work Jerry.

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...light=killowat

lol epic thread I forgot all about half these people

RIP to the long time posters earlier in this thread who disappeared without a trace

PFA doesn’t exactly have the best retention rate for participating members

who can really blame most of them for bailing

this place really is a toxic shithole, with no shortage of insufferable, halfwitted colossal douchebags

pretty simple fix to have it hopping again within a matter of days

unfortunately, this doesn’t appear to be a top priority for current management

so we’re stuck with drunken illiterate apes running wild flinging around their own feces instead

https://youtu.be/6ZLW8nSJb7I?si=vdnr5nGoe1HM-faQ

uploaded 16 years ago

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Originally Posted by Tyde

OK just catching up now to the circumstances and re-reading some of that fiasco LOL

yea it was the casino manager not a random dealer

I never really dove too deeply into every facet of this episode at the time, and didn’t really care one way or the other

but I do remember feeling very strongly that if you are going to attack someone and/or accuse them of theft publicly, you better have some fucking proof

that goes for Druff, or anyone else for that matter

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Why not just admit you were trying to troll me at the time? I doubt you were particularly interested in an allegation against some small poker room manager, whether justified or not.

BTW, when the whole thing was over, there were still some very valid questions regarding the usage of the promotional money, which the guy wouldn't answer. That's why I wouldn't apologize for the thread. I did clarify that the scamming/stealing allegations seemed to be baseless, and apologized for that part of it. This was because a normally credible source got it wrong.

Since that occurred, I did change the way I handle third party allegations. Unless the third party has evidence, I will no longer post allegations against someone. I tell them to register an account and make the allegation themselves.

Regardless, Mason was being a petty asshole to "drop the hammer" on me, as you put it. He was butting into a situation on PFA which had nothing to do with him or 2+2. He did not know this poker room manager, nor did they have any affiliation with 2+2. Mason simply found an opportunity to use an excuse to ban me, and did so. Many in the thread were unhappy about it and called bullshit.

This was from 9 years ago and I'm not interested in a long debate about this again.

not trolling

someone else bumped the thread today so yes I wanted to clarify the sequence of events leading up to Mason banning Kilowatt

at the time of the episode in question, I was banned on PFA and was probably not at all pleased with being muzzled

guilty as charged regarding trolling you at the time

however that doesn’t change my stance on making accusations without proof one bit

not directed at you personally, but as a general rule yes it bothers me when anyone is falsely accused without supporting evidence

In that particular case, you were out of bounds and I would have called you out for it regardless of it being 2+2

anyway carry on