Change the headline to...
Vegas is Dead!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEI...IgZGVhZA%3D%3D
Printable View
Change the headline to...
Vegas is Dead!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEI...IgZGVhZA%3D%3D
For the most part, yes. Many (but not all) machines are programmed to give a higher return percentage at higher denominations. This, in fact, affects slot advantage play, as the threshold where these machines bridge into advantage mode happens earlier at higher denominations -- but again, only on certain machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
Not likely. This is a possibility to occur in the future, but at the moment the casinos are still in denial that their shitty games are somewhat causing people to not return to Vegas. In fact, even those not in the know about the degraded odds are probably staying away, simply because they notice they can't win. It's also important to know that the "tight machine, loose machine" thing is somewhat of a myth. While there definitely are difference in return percentages between machines, changing a machine to be "looser" is not trivial. This is because, at least in Nevada, the Gaming Commission regulates such changes, and the casino must seek and receive approval in order to do so. This is a slow and somewhat cumbersome process, so it's not worth doing unless the casino is making a long-term change to the machines. There is no such thing as Vegas machines being set to be looser during the day compared to at night, or on certain days of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
There are settings in many machines which allow the casino to pick from one of a few pre-selected return percentages. However, as I said, they need to put this through Gaming, so most casinos don't bother. They usually set it and forget it.
Might they eventually loosen the machines in order to reverse the downward trend in visitation and play? Perhaps, but if they do, you're likely to hear about it via advertising.
It appears you just got lucky. And that's great, because all of us have had brutally unlucky streaks in gambling, so it's nice to have trips like these, even if otherwise playing -EV machines. There's not much to read into this success, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
This part is particularly interesting to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
First off, I'm shocked that a $4/$8 limit holdem player gets room comps, especially being local. They make very little money on that game per player per hour. If Red Rock has been comping your dad rooms for a long time for just playing that, they've been very generous with him. To compare, no matter how much I play $30/$60 or $80/$160 at Bellagio, they will not comp me anything. At best, I will get a reduced (but still not so great) poker rate, and that will still require play during the stay that I have to prove! I don't even bother.
What type of play did you do in 2025 at Red Rock? While it sounds like they hand out room offers easily, I'm especially surprised you got $50 freeplay. However, if you've played some slots this year (which I think you have), that could easily generate such offers. Oh, and just to let you know, you will never pay room tax if there is a comped room and comped resort fee. Clark County makes it illegal to charge tax on hotel rooms if no cash exchanges hands to pay for the room. This is a little known law, but that's why you saw no tax. In fact, even Caesars isn't aware of the law, and they violate it when you pay for your room with RCs! The government doesn't care, though, because that tax gets remitted to them! Caesars is just too clueless to know they shouldn't be charging it.
Some additional info:
1. Dad plays 4/8 limit for 5-6 hours per day, but often goes to play pit games after that. He plays blackjack and craps mostly, so that may be how he is able to get so many comps. He also has north of 1.5M player points on his account which he occasionally uses for meals and things like that.
2. I didn't play many slots over the course of 2025, but, the trip before this last one, I played a bit to kill time, so maybe that generated the offer.
3. I am sure that this was 100% dumb luck and have no doubt it is not likely to occur again. If I am lucky, maybe this gets me more comps for future trips.
Things are falling apart at Paris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8XPTstkC8U
The July stats for Vegas tourism come out Friday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64QGrOH_SRM
Like I said before, once August ends, the tourism numbers go DOWN as its back to school time for the kids. September to March- Best time to go to Vegas, especially mid-week.
When those July numbers come out tomorrow, it wont mean much either way, because September and onward, its down time.
Okay, makes more sense regarding your dad. He's getting the comps from the BJ and craps play -- not the limit holdem. The poker is probably getting him nothing (or almost nothing).Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
Yes, your slots you played last time is what triggered the offer. This is actually common -- that sudden casino play after a long time of dormancy or no-play will trigger at least a small offer. The thinking behind this is, "Okay, he's showing that he wants to gamble. Maybe we can get him back and he'll gamble even more."
In general, comps are determined by something called "ADT" -- average daily theoretical (losses). Your ADT is simply a mathematical calculation regarding what your loss would have been if your luck were exactly average. That is divided by the number of days they see you on property. Note that "days" don't run from midnight to midnight... usually it's something like 4am-3:59am or 6am-5:59am. Also they "see you on property" when you either stay at the hotel under your own name, or when you use your players card. This is why it's not good to use your card briefly if you aren't staying on property and otherwise haven't used the card yet that day. So, for example, if you are staying with your dad and the two of you decide to play $5 blackjack for 30 minutes, it's probably better not to use a card at all. However, if you've already shown them your card that day (or if you're staying at the hotel), there's no downside to showing your card in most cases, even for short sessions.
Comps will sometimes be affected by other factors:
- Losses. If you get completely obliterated and run FAR below expectation, some properties will temporarily up your comps. However, this will not occur everywhere, and in many places the increase will be small. Wins do NOT affect your comps either way, so this nice session you had will have zero impact on future comps, aside from the amount of play you ran.
- Hours played. In the old days, this was used to calculate ADT because they didn't have a better way. Now that they can track ADT much more accurately, hours aren't used much anymore at machines, though some properties will still use it a bit when calculating comps. More hours is better, but again, most properties got away from this, and those that still use it don't weigh it heavily, so don't intentionally slow play.
- Offers redeemed. There's a concept in addition to ADT called "MDV" -- market daily value. MDV is your ADT minus the amount you redeemed in comps and offers that trip. Notice these are calculated at THEIR prices, not retail prices. So a free room is assigned a price, but it's a fairly low one (way less than they charge for it). Free meals are assigned a price, but again, it's marked down for this purpose. Freeplay and other "hard comps" (comps which cost them the retail value) are subtracted at face value. That gives them a picture of how much they can expect to make from you. So if they assign the room as $40, your $100 food voucher as costing them $50, and $200 freeplay, and you redeem all of them, you cost them $290. Let's say your theoretical (not actual) losses were $500. And let's say you were seen 3 days. They would subtract $290 from the $500, resulting in $210. Then they'd divide by 3 (days), and your MDV would be $70. Your comps would then be calculated as a player who is worth $70 in profit per day from them, so you wouldn't get anything good. Do not worry about MDV, though. Redeem all the offers you want. This is just a reason to possibly pass on redeeming offers for things you don't actually enjoy at all.
- Overcomping. If you have recently used more benefits/comps than you have generated in theoretical loss, you are considered "overcomped". If you do this for awhile, they might no-offer you, or your offers will be laughably bad.
- New player. If you recently got a card, your offers will be better up front (after 2-3 months pass from your first play) than they will be after that. This is especially true if you play a lot on your first day, then disappear for a few months. On the flip side, once they get used to reliably seeing you, it is very hard to increase your offers, and in many cases they will decrease.
- Restarting player. Someone who hasn't been seen in about 18 months is seen by casinos as almost new player status. So if you show up after 18 months of not being seen at all, and play a good deal, you might get some surprisingly good comps. But this isn't true for all properties (nor is it always true regarding new players, but that's more reliable).
- Always low edge. Some casinos will no-offer you if they detect that you stick to only the very highest payout video poker. However, this only applies in places with good paytables. If all paytables are mediocre or shitty, they're happy to have your action no matter what.
Here's some things which do NOT affect your comps, even though people erroneously believe they do:
- Winning. Casinos are playing a numbers game, and realize some people will get lucky and win. They don't hold this against you. They just want action.
- Tier status. There is a huge misconception that once you move up to a premium tier status, your comps will greatly improve. They won't. Tier status gives guaranteed benefits, but does not affect comps.
- Being a nice guy (or tipping well) to your host or the pit boss. This used to work in some cases, but now everything is being done by computer. Hosts have very little leeway beyond that, and pit bosses don't issue comps at all anymore, in most cases.
- Playing a short time at a very high denomination. Doing 3 spins on a $1000 slot machine is no better than doing 300 spins on a $10 slot.
Finally, and I can't stress this enough... if you have a host, do NOT use him/her to solve hotel billing issues. Often hotel staff will direct you to do this, as it gets you out of their hair, but you are the one who gets fucked in the end. Why? Because hosts don't fix things -- they comp them. For example, let's say you had a $200 food offer with instructions to charge it to your room, and it will come off. So you have a $250 meal, and instead of seeing just $50 on your hotel bill, you see the full $250. They will often send you to your host to fix it. But guess what? Your host won't fix it -- he will just spend $200 MORE of your comps to remove it -- money you could have otherwise used for further comps down the line! It's the equivalent of you coming to me and saying, "Hey Todd, my AT&T bill has a mistake on it and it's $200 too high... can you help me?", and then I steal $200 out of your wallet and say, "Sure... by tomorrow you'll see your bill is down $200!" That's basically what happens when hosts "fix" issues. Instead, decline to get the host involved, and demand they fix the problem on the hotel/casino end. The only exception is if it's something the host arranged himself -- such as him arranging a comp suite and then you get charged for it. In that case, you can go to him to fix it.
I know you aren't gambling at the level to be hosted, but just an FYI to anyone else reading.
Thank you for this. It is incredibly insightful. I also owe you one for warning about those "must hit by" machines. I would have dropped a pretty penny chasing that otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOkay, makes more sense regarding your dad. He's getting the comps from the BJ and craps play -- not the limit holdem. The poker is probably getting him nothing (or almost nothing).Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal_thinker
Yes, your slots you played last time is what triggered the offer. This is actually common -- that sudden casino play after a long time of dormancy or no-play will trigger at least a small offer. The thinking behind this is, "Okay, he's showing that he wants to gamble. Maybe we can get him back and he'll gamble even more."
In general, comps are determined by something called "ADT" -- average daily theoretical (losses). Your ADT is simply a mathematical calculation regarding what your loss would have been if your luck were exactly average. That is divided by the number of days they see you on property. Note that "days" don't run from midnight to midnight... usually it's something like 4am-3:59am or 6am-5:59am. Also they "see you on property" when you either stay at the hotel under your own name, or when you use your players card. This is why it's not good to use your card briefly if you aren't staying on property and otherwise haven't used the card yet that day. So, for example, if you are staying with your dad and the two of you decide to play $5 blackjack for 30 minutes, it's probably better not to use a card at all. However, if you've already shown them your card that day (or if you're staying at the hotel), there's no downside to showing your card in most cases, even for short sessions.
Comps will sometimes be affected by other factors:
- Losses. If you get completely obliterated and run FAR below expectation, some properties will temporarily up your comps. However, this will not occur everywhere, and in many places the increase will be small. Wins do NOT affect your comps either way, so this nice session you had will have zero impact on future comps, aside from the amount of play you ran.
- Hours played. In the old days, this was used to calculate ADT because they didn't have a better way. Now that they can track ADT much more accurately, hours aren't used much anymore at machines, though some properties will still use it a bit when calculating comps. More hours is better, but again, most properties got away from this, and those that still use it don't weigh it heavily, so don't intentionally slow play.
- Offers redeemed. There's a concept in addition to ADT called "MDV" -- market daily value. MDV is your ADT minus the amount you redeemed in comps and offers that trip. Notice these are calculated at THEIR prices, not retail prices. So a free room is assigned a price, but it's a fairly low one (way less than they charge for it). Free meals are assigned a price, but again, it's marked down for this purpose. Freeplay and other "hard comps" (comps which cost them the retail value) are subtracted at face value. That gives them a picture of how much they can expect to make from you. So if they assign the room as $40, your $100 food voucher as costing them $50, and $200 freeplay, and you redeem all of them, you cost them $290. Let's say your theoretical (not actual) losses were $500. And let's say you were seen 3 days. They would subtract $290 from the $500, resulting in $210. Then they'd divide by 3 (days), and your MDV would be $70. Your comps would then be calculated as a player who is worth $70 in profit per day from them, so you wouldn't get anything good. Do not worry about MDV, though. Redeem all the offers you want. This is just a reason to possibly pass on redeeming offers for things you don't actually enjoy at all.
- Overcomping. If you have recently used more benefits/comps than you have generated in theoretical loss, you are considered "overcomped". If you do this for awhile, they might no-offer you, or your offers will be laughably bad.
- New player. If you recently got a card, your offers will be better up front (after 2-3 months pass from your first play) than they will be after that. This is especially true if you play a lot on your first day, then disappear for a few months. On the flip side, once they get used to reliably seeing you, it is very hard to increase your offers, and in many cases they will decrease.
- Restarting player. Someone who hasn't been seen in about 18 months is seen by casinos as almost new player status. So if you show up after 18 months of not being seen at all, and play a good deal, you might get some surprisingly good comps. But this isn't true for all properties (nor is it always true regarding new players, but that's more reliable).
- Always low edge. Some casinos will no-offer you if they detect that you stick to only the very highest payout video poker. However, this only applies in places with good paytables. If all paytables are mediocre or shitty, they're happy to have your action no matter what.
Here's some things which do NOT affect your comps, even though people erroneously believe they do:
- Winning. Casinos are playing a numbers game, and realize some people will get lucky and win. They don't hold this against you. They just want action.
- Tier status. There is a huge misconception that once you move up to a premium tier status, your comps will greatly improve. They won't. Tier status gives guaranteed benefits, but does not affect comps.
- Being a nice guy (or tipping well) to your host or the pit boss. This used to work in some cases, but now everything is being done by computer. Hosts have very little leeway beyond that, and pit bosses don't issue comps at all anymore, in most cases.
- Playing a short time at a very high denomination. Doing 3 spins on a $1000 slot machine is no better than doing 300 spins on a $10 slot.
Finally, and I can't stress this enough... if you have a host, do NOT use him/her to solve hotel billing issues. Often hotel staff will direct you to do this, as it gets you out of their hair, but you are the one who gets fucked in the end. Why? Because hosts don't fix things -- they comp them. For example, let's say you had a $200 food offer with instructions to charge it to your room, and it will come off. So you have a $250 meal, and instead of seeing just $50 on your hotel bill, you see the full $250. They will often send you to your host to fix it. But guess what? Your host won't fix it -- he will just spend $200 MORE of your comps to remove it -- money you could have otherwise used for further comps down the line! It's the equivalent of you coming to me and saying, "Hey Todd, my AT&T bill has a mistake on it and it's $200 too high... can you help me?", and then I steal $200 out of your wallet and say, "Sure... by tomorrow you'll see your bill is down $200!" That's basically what happens when hosts "fix" issues. Instead, decline to get the host involved, and demand they fix the problem on the hotel/casino end. The only exception is if it's something the host arranged himself -- such as him arranging a comp suite and then you get charged for it. In that case, you can go to him to fix it.
I know you aren't gambling at the level to be hosted, but just an FYI to anyone else reading.
Here is an amusing comp story involving a certain casino I won't name. It's not a Caesars or MGM property btw. If I've told you about this privately, please don't name the casino.
I got wind of a situation where if you get a new card and run a lot of high limit machine play on your first day, they will give you big offers. This already worked for some APs I knew, but it was risky because it could change at any point, and I could end up losing my ass running the play, and then get very little as far as comps. But I took a chance and did it. I was planning to play $500/hand baccarat on an electronic machine in a high limit room. This particular casino zeroed comps on various low edge machines on property, but they forgot to do it for baccarat. Oops!
Well, I held my breath and did it. I was emotionally prepared to lose something like $30k if I ran bad. I wasn't sure when I'd abort if it were going really awful.
Anyway, fortunately I didn't run that bad. I lost $4400, which was a little worse than EV, but not that bad considering what could have happened. Then I had to hold my breath again and wait to see if lucrative offers would roll in, or if I'd get fucked. It didn't make me feel good that I saw a TON of advantage players in the place, so I figured they'd be shutting this down shortly. It also made me feel shitty when they removed the baccarat machine entirely, about a week after I played it. Uh oh!
I ran this play in May. Recall the WSOP is in June. Well, I was getting shitty room rates from Caesars that year, so the weekends were expensive. Without my even mentioning it, a radio listener messaged me and asked if I needed any comp rooms for the upcoming weekend. Lucky! However, they were at this exact property where I had run the play, and I obviously did NOT want it seeing evidence I was there, or it could fuck up my big comps, which I estimated would land in July or August.
At first I was going to decline, but then I asked him if he could list me as a second guest in a misspelled way. So instead of guest #2 in the room being Todd Witteles, I had him put me down as "Todd Whittles". Since my name is difficult to spell, I figured it would be fine if I needed to get a key remade at the front desk, as it's close enough. However, the computer would be unable to link Todd Whittles to Todd Witteles, because they're different names!
Mind you, I wasn't sure if being a second guest could link to the casino card just by name only, but I wasn't going to take any chances.
But then I had another issue -- parking! Again, I wasn't sure if my players card would link to the casino for the free parking, so I didn't use it. Instead, I parked next door, aside from loading and unloading luggage, where I used their lot with no card and exited before an hour passed (so it was free).
About a month later, I got some shit offers, like $40 freeplay. However, I didn't panic because this is common, where the first month's offers suck big time. I ignored them.
Then the next offer came in the following month, and it was multiple ones for over $3000 weekly, plus an insane amount of food credit, plus some very nice suite stays.
:yes
I milked this for about 4 months before they finally cut me (and others) off, and I couldn't continue redeeming my offers. However, I got the last laugh because I saw this coming, so I booked a shitload of free rooms for as far out as I could, including New Years, and those didn't get revoked, because they only focused on the freeplay.
I also took those big offers to other casinos where I didn't yet have a card, and got some matches.
Was fun while it lasted. Now I'm back to scratching out comp or near-comp rooms wherever I can, and freeplay is a thing of the past. Note that I am not an AP, but am just on the periphery of the community, and sometimes engage in it when the opportunity comes up.
I do have great respect for the AP community and the people in it, so I would never post any details which could hurt the community, nor would I ever help casinos against APs, even if I were paid well to do it.
https://x.com/LasVegasLocally/status...25038879514727
Domestic being down more than international shows that blaming Trump for the Vegas slowdown is not correct. Trump might have a little to do with it, but the vast majority seems to be a self-inflicted wound that Vegas made upon itself.
It's also important to understand that a lot of Vegas visitors drive in from LA, San Diego, Phoenix, and elsewhere, so air travel doesn't tell the whole story.
‘The whole town is slower’: Las Vegas economy hits the brakes
Quote:
Las Vegas’ tourism-dependent economy is hitting the brakes. Visitor volume and consumer spending are tumbling in America’s casino capital, and the local unemployment rate is hovering among the highest in the country for big metro areas.
“The whole town is slower,” said Crazy Horse 3 owner Nando Sostilio, whose strip club recently announced a slate of specials to draw more customers.
Southern Nevada relies heavily on outsiders traveling here to spend big eating, drinking, gambling, partying and going to shows and conventions to fuel the economy. But amid a series of financial headwinds — and as President Donald Trump’s trade wars spark widespread economic anxiety — fewer people are taking Vegas vacations this year.
Sluggish Labor Day Outlook:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...vegas-3431000/
Jobless Rate Among Highest in US Again:
https://cdcgaming.com/brief/las-vega...ourism-slumps/
The July 2025 stats are out.
https://www.lvcva.com/research/
(Tourism Tracker tab)
Visitor volume is down 12% for July 2025 vs July 2024
Total Occupancy is down 7.6%
RevPAR (Revenue Per Available Room) for Strip is down 12.1%
Airport International Passengers is down 5.7%
However, Gaming Revenue on the Strip is up 5.6%
Very similar to the past 2 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dive_Bar_Dave
Obviously hurting the low end places like Flamingo, Luxor and the Strat to name a few. As has been discussed it’s the low end customer not coming, which makes the most sense since they are most affected by the F & B price gouging. Still don’t believe Wynn or Venetian are at all concerned unless the overall economy tanks.
Flamingo is running with $20 rooms Monday-Wednesday this week, plus the resort fee for those without status. So they are desperate for the low end customer that just isn’t coming as much.
And again, while I don’t believe the volume number of 12% because it’s not trackable like occupancy, air passengers and RevPar, no doubt there is less visitors in town. But certainly not to the level of clickbait artists running with titles “Vegas is empty”. Some of the clowns whose videos were posted here make Chrissy Mitchell seem honest.
As I said all along the rest of the year with tell the story of how bad the drop is and just who is being affected.
AI Overview
TSA anticipates record-setting travel for Labor Day
Yes, this year's Labor Day is expected to set a record for air travel, with the TSA anticipating nearly 17.4 million travelers from August 28 through September 3. Friday, August 29, is projected to be the busiest travel day, and the overall period marks the busiest Labor Day travel stretch in 15 years. Travelers are being advised to arrive early for their flights and be prepared for potentially long lines at the airport.
__________________________________
Record number of people flying across the US this weekend. It would be interesting to compare this to the number of people flying in and out of Vegas this weekend.
____________________________________
AI Overview
Las Vegas listed as the sixth most popular destination for Labor Day travel. While a precise average number isn't available, it's estimated that over 600,000 people fly in and out of Las Vegas during the Labor Day weekend, making it one of the busiest travel times of the year. This period is known to be an exceptionally busy travel weekend for the city, alongside events like EDC and Memorial Day.
Don't read a lot into midweek room rates. They've been cheap for a long time. Midweek hotel prices have always been a good value in Vegas, even since we entered the gouging era. It's far cheaper to stay in Vegas midweek than any other medium or big city in the US.
The problem is that everything else is a ripoff, and the food is especially irritating because you can't just choose to go without eating.
Reports about the new July stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8SIRAdhzs
Overall visitors down 12%
Canadian visitors down 25%
(for non-waiver countries, travel visas for a family of four cost $1150)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE2NYrDK8N4
Expert Steve Hill thinks things could turn around in December.
By the way Dave, I’m not questioning your number on visitation that was reported in multiple places, I just don’t how it’s calculated.
Air passengers aren’t down that high so I assume it includes cars but that’s guesswork and estimates to me. Air and Hotel occupancy are an exact number, so I’m wondering why they don’t match? Unless it’s estimated day travelers, which is possible, the 12% seems high. Short of counting cars from CA. In 15, not sure how it’s possible.
I can’t imagine that many come for a day, but if they aren’t now, they certainly aren’t hurting gaming win.
Time will tell.
I posted the gaming profit info above on this page. However, gaming is not the only revenue stream that is key to Vegas's success (see also: hotels, restaurants, entertainment, transportation, etc). Thus you have sky-high unemployment and foreclosures. Vegas is struggling...
So many stats proving you wrong if you are comparing Vegas to other US cities and companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dive_Bar_Dave
What is “sky high unemployment and foreclosures”?
You are so focused on one city, like the clickbait artists you seem to love. It’s the LOW END broke Ham & Eggers that aren’t coming as the numbers prove. And yes, less low end bargain seeking customers coming will effect jobs but it’s no different than the US in general.
Just a few inconvenient truths to the narrative you and the clowns you listen to are pushing.
Wynn stock up almost 50% YTD, yes they have other interests than Vegas.Not struggling
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/wynn
Venetian parent beat earnings per share estimate by 43% and revenue up 15% in Q2 Not struggling
https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/lvs/earnings
Caesars stock is DOWN in the past year. One could argue this is where the low end customer not coming is hurting the most however the company is so far in debt and poorly run, all are contributing to their poor performance.
MGM like Caesars has lower end properties in Vegas but they also have more higher end as well. Their stock is up 18% year to date beating the 10% of the S&P.
While a company is only as good as your last quarter and Q3 might be down, the market usually is good at anticipating potential issues and in the case of 3/4 of these stocks they aren’t overly concerned.
Highest US cities for foreclosures, Las Vegas is not in Top 5 but Nevada is almost tied with Florida in another measure as a percentage. I do expect this to become a bigger issue when the Q3 numbers come out across the board. This is National problem, not a Vegas one.
https://www.attomdata.com/news/most-...ates-by-state/
Unemployment? July numbers show Nevada at 5.4% is just behind California (5.5%) for worst in the nation after DC, which is obviously the government jobs being eliminated. Michigan is 3rd at 5.3%. By city Vegas is not in the top 10 at 6.0%. Again a national issue by state and no one is saying California’s UC rate is “sky high” compared to the national average of 4.2%.
https://usafacts.org/answers/what-is...united-states/
Vegas has its share of issues with pricing but for the 100th time it’s overblown and getting attention from opportunistic grifters because of the special place it has to many. And those who are hurting and can’t afford to get there as often are giving them fuel for the grift fire. After all, doing videos on the financial situation in Detroit isn’t going to provide the clicks these “influencers” need to keep sitting on their ass. And we all know the national media is lazy as fuck and loves easy stories.
#factsmatter
The first 16 seconds of this video proves my point to a T.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactor
A grifter starts by saving NOBODY is coming to Vegas now. 93% of last years air volume is NOBODY?
And yea, unfortunately I gave this scumbag a click. Note the “includes paid promotion” right at the start.
What an ass clown!
DBD is right here, there are so many lay offs, unemployment and housing foreclosures. Ofcourse the over-lords of Las Vegas are going to combat and push back with "its all OK here and we're still betting on Vegas!"- because they have to, they wont admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dive_Bar_Dave
Right now there is over 7 BILLION dollars of open housing inventory in Vegas right now...and its only going to get worse. As I have said above, August is over and now its back to school and no more families in Vegas for the summer. Its not dune buggy ATV season in the desert and hopefully that will help some, but it wont.
Again, look at the California indian casinos, there is where your previous Las Vegas clientele are at. Not sure why some of you are not getting that point yet and Druff still missed it on radio. The indian casinos stole most of the Vegas gamblers, accept it and they arent coming back, its cheaper to gamble, bingo and eat locally. I see the TV ads here where they are giving away multiple Jeeps, etc. Why drive or fly to play when locals can enjoy the convenience??
In the 2000s, I wanted to buy a condo in Vegas, or perhaps even a house. However, I was concerned about a housing market crash, as it seemed inevitable. I just didn't know when it would hit. Indeed, then we had 2008, and I was very happy I didn't buy.
I then considered this again in 2010 (post-crash), when a lot of bargains were out there, but I just had a baby and was about to permanently move BACK to California, so it just seemed too much of a hassle.
Prices have shot up since then and I regret not taking action in 2010.
If there's another crash (even just one local to Vegas), I'll probably buy something at that point. I did keep my apartment there for a little time after I moved out of Vegas, and it was nice to have my stuff already there, plus no hassle with hotel reservations, inflated prices, etc. I just wasn't going to Vegas often enough to justify it, especially with a new baby. Since I didn't own the apartment, I just gave notice and gave it up.
With all due respect you are looking at this through such a small window.Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrunnerDBD is right here, there are so many lay offs, unemployment and housing foreclosures. Ofcourse the over-lords of Las Vegas are going to combat and push back with "its all OK here and we're still betting on Vegas!"- because they have to, they wont admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dive_Bar_Dave
Right now there is over 7 BILLION dollars of open housing inventory in Vegas right now...and its only going to get worse. As I have said above, August is over and now its back to school and no more families in Vegas for the summer. Its not dune buggy ATV season in the desert and hopefully that will help some, but it wont.
Again, look at the California indian casinos, there is where your previous Las Vegas clientele are at. Not sure why some of you are not getting that point yet and Druff still missed it on radio. The indian casinos stole most of the Vegas gamblers, accept it and they arent coming back, its cheaper to gamble, bingo and eat locally. I see the TV ads here where they are giving away multiple Jeeps, etc. Why drive or fly to play when locals can enjoy the convenience??
Vegas is a microcosm of the US housing market in general, just like 2007-8. Interest rates are too high and are killing the housing market, it has always worked this way, $3000 a month payment gets less house at 6% than 3.5%. So the prices either go down, which many won’t do, or they sit unsold. Story as old as time.
As for the lack of “families” in Vegas, other than for a short period of time they never wanted them. A family isn’t by any means the core target, see the removal of almost all the attractions that catered to them. Again, not a 2025 issue. The upper middle class with NFL, high priced concerts , etc are the target and again, I argue they are still coming. Which is showing in gaming win and non entry level hotels seemingly not being affected.
The California casinos are nothing new with Pachanga opening in 2002. Did they steal the customers then or now? If in the last year, why not in the past 20+? As for the “giveaways”, like Vegas they are stacked against the average person with high rollers getting a million entries to the drawing while the average sap gets one. But they do get people to show up and gamble, again a story as old as casino time. These TV ads are for locals, no different than the locals casinos in Vegas run. No reason for the strip casinos to run TV ads but I guarantee you they are running just as many promotions, targeted to the customers they want directly. The strip was never for the locals for the most part compared to the off strip local properties.
I get your anti CEO feelings and agree on F&B pricing, it’s inexcusable. But there is nothing happening that isn’t happening elsewhere in the country in certain cities. Just look at the numbers I posted and the links. Only question is if this is a blip or the start of something more. And I still believe Vegas will go as the rest of the country goes economically, up or down.
The upcoming weekend of the fight will be near sold out at high room rates, even at the lower end properties. No you can’t have an event like this every weekend but it will show the reports of Vegas’s death are greatly exaggerated. But I’ll bet we won’t see YouTube videos on that, it’s not good clickbait.
“ Dive_Bar_Dave: again, contact the lvcva.com and tell them "The Boz" doesn't agree with their numbers.”
Only one number, not their “numbers”, which I explained multiple times and only wonder how total visitation is calculated. Certainly a fair question when it doesn’t jive with air traffic and hotel occupancy. Maybe its car traffic but that’s tough to quantify unless they are sleeping in their car or coming for the day. Then you are using traffic cams which is subjective at best.
Note I see no response to my links and numbers that show Vegas isn’t different than other US states and cities.
Dude you have been shown numbers multiple times in this thread but you are unwilling to look at realities. But keep clicking on those videos, trust me, you aren’t alone. There are 13% of last years visitors doing that exact same thing while crying about not being able to afford a trip to Vegas. Be sure to “slam that like button” and keep these grifters in business so they don’t end up in the 13% losers club!
The Boz: "And I still believe Vegas will go as the rest of the country goes economically, up or down."
Vegas is the hot molten core of corporate greed and price-gouging. It is not like the rest of the country. Average Americans are angry about this. If you look at the comments on the news reports and vlogs about it, people are very unhappy with Vegas. They seem universally intent on boycotting the town until the town "gets it"...
Dude you are fucking hilarious with this stuff and sadly it’s getting worse. I showed you the numbers where you are either exaggerating the issue or are plain wrong. Not sure how many times I have to say it but Vegas F&B pricing is crazy, but certainly not a unique issue in America. And certainly didn’t just become a problem in 2025.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dive_Bar_Dave
“ San Diego:
A WalletHub report in July 2025 identified San Diego as having the highest year-over-year restaurant inflation rate, at 3.8%.
Honolulu:
This city, along with San Francisco, appeared on a 10-year average analysis by the USDA as having among the highest food price increases”
But, but, but a bunch of comments on YouTube are “universally intent on boycotting the town….”.
I have been posting about and tracking the Las Vegas housing market on PFA for years now. I dont know what youre waiting for as right now is that time to strike and buy. AND the housing market is only going to slump more as Fall gets here. ME- I posted on here and called it for along time- the Vegas housing market has to cool off and its finally here. I might buy soon or wait until some family business wraps up. But this is it, the time to buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Druff- NOW is the time...
$7B worth of homes for sale in Las Vegas, highest ever, report says
Las Vegas Flooded With Homes Nobody Want to Buy
Las Vegas Housing Supply Rises 31% As Demand Stumbles, Pushing Sale Prices Down Slightly
https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-con...py-2.jpg?w=650
Homes Are Flooding Onto the Market in Las Vegas as Retirees Flee the City and Investors Cash Out
ADD- I hope Druff buys a Las Vegas house first so then I can buy near him and go see him weekly. (sarcasm) ;)
The time isn't now because the prices haven't fallen yet.
I am waiting for a panic fall due to the aforementioned inventory and demand issues.
My theory, as I said before, is that a lot of people are staying away because the price gouging and nickel-and-diming changed people's opinions of Vegas from "can't wait to go" to "meh, take it or leave it!"
This in turn caused a decline in visitor volume, to where people who otherwise would've come are just visiting local casinos or gambling online.
You need to listen to what the people are saying. If it's universally agreed that Vegas is not a value vacation anymore, and that people are really irritated by the gouging, you need to listen to them.
The gambling profits are probably up due to the fact that high and middle-high rollers care much less about costly food, because they're going to high end restaurants anyway, and don't care. For example, I am friends with a rich doctor who comes to Vegas once a year. He eats at nothing but gourmet restaurants and stays in an Aria suite. As long as the price isn't totally outrageous, he doesn't really care if it's gone up somewhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
any good player isn't paying for anything anyway. we just stayed in a parlor suite at wynn for 14 nights. we never considered price when deciding where to eat or what to drink. their large pool drinks in our area were $40 plus a 20% service fee. just look at the prices on the online mizumi menu. it's all offensive. whatever, host will have to deal with it. my point other than the subtle brag is that we are not alone; aria, b, w/e, v/p (i suppose as i have no history there) all have plenty of players who are spending --- just look at the stock markets and all the govt giveaway programs during covid. the rich really have gotten richer and are still spending. boz is right, it is the low end that is suffering hardest, by far.
just ask San about his bet against my Wynn stock. (sorry San, was too easy, and frankly, deserved -- your must focus your hate on the proper party - CZR)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
correct. we aren't close to a real correction out there yet. if prices hit 2010/11 levels again we will likely be buyers as well. but its still too early.
With over 7 BILLION is stagnant inventory and current foreclosures, the time is now where you could walk in and make a legit offer. If they decline, say OK and start to turn around...they will stop you before you get to the door. Its buyer's market right now, just got to find a house you like, they will take your offer. Sure the longer you wait, the better the conditions, but right now is a great time, they are arent going to advertise it and try to keep it on the down low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I will be in a better spot around Thanksgiving and might go shopping then. December is also a dead time to score a good deal on a Vegas home.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Xw&oe=68B9A8C7
Druff wrote-
No Druff, respectfully youre wrong here and making up a conclusion to support your opinion. No where in the graphic does it say they are "mid-flight".Quote:
Fake news.
It's engagement bait.
Look at the plane again. The overhead bins are all open. Cockpit door is open. This is early boarding, and someone took the pic to create engagement or controversy on X. There's a reason that the dude didn't take the pic mid-flight.
This is the type of stuff you have to watch out for when you're seeing "reports" on X or Facebook.
Its not fake news or engagement bait, the husband obviously took the picture as they were waiting to take off. I really dont think the husband on this particular flight had some "anti Vegas agenda" when taking a pic just for his wife. If you fly much, you can tell when boarding has completed and the crew is wrapping things up before gate departure.
Actually, no, I dont need to watch out for these things as it was not a "report" on X or Facebook. I'm pretty smart and can tell whats BS or not. Its obviously this guy just took a pre-depart pic and shared it this his wife and pretty sure he didnt have an agenda. Most people arent flying from NJ to Vegas anyways.
No argument with any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TellafriendQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
any good player isn't paying for anything anyway. we just stayed in a parlor suite at wynn for 14 nights. we never considered price when deciding where to eat or what to drink. their large pool drinks in our area were $40 plus a 20% service fee. just look at the prices on the online mizumi menu. it's all offensive. whatever, host will have to deal with it. my point other than the subtle brag is that we are not alone; aria, b, w/e, v/p (i suppose as i have no history there) all have plenty of players who are spending --- just look at the stock markets and all the govt giveaway programs during covid. the rich really have gotten richer and are still spending. boz is right, it is the low end that is suffering hardest, by far.
just ask San about his bet against my Wynn stock. (sorry San, was too easy, and frankly, deserved -- your must focus your hate on the proper party - CZR)
Yes, a lot of high end visitors are getting comps anyway.
I brought up the doctor because he's NOT a gambler. He just makes good money and enjoys the food and atmosphere of Vegas, so he comes once a year and spends lavishly. No comps. He doesn't give a shit about the prices as long as they aren't outrageously high. He did get to befriend some person at the Aria who gets him the suite for a fairly good price, though it's still expensive.
There's a lot more high end visitors like him than there used to be. Vegas isn't just for gamblers anymore.
But either way... if you're getting comped, or if you're just rich, you aren't going to care much about the prices or the nickel-and-diming.
100% the lower and middle class tourists are feeling it, though, even with the cheap midweek rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrunner
Fake news.
It's engagement bait.
Look at the plane again. The overhead bins are all open. Cockpit door is open. This is early boarding, and someone took the pic to create engagement or controversy on X. There's a reason that the dude didn't take the pic mid-flight.
This is the type of stuff you have to watch out for when you're seeing "reports" on X or Facebook.
do yall know you can fly scottsdale to carlsbad or vegas on jsx for like 250 do you know how elite that is
LOL
desertrunner is out of posts for the day, so he went back and edited his post BEFORE my response in order to respond to me.
Funny. I'll allow it. In fact I'll do him one better and give him a few extra posts right now so he can respond back.
First off, I want to point out that I don't blame desertrunner for not noticing the details about the plane. Even Vital Vegas was fooled by this one at first, and he's typically very sharp regarding these things.
But it's 100% a misleading picture. I've boarded a lot of planes in my life, and especially recently, I've been a first/business class passenger, so I get to board before almost everyone. Therefore, I know what a plane looks like just when boarding starts, and it's exactly like the pic in that tweet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrunner
The husband definitely did NOT take the picture when they were waiting for takeoff. By FAA regulations, the cockpit doors must be closed and the overhead bins must all be shut, or the plane cannot move even one inch.
There is also ZERO evidence in this picture that the crew was wrapping anything up. This picture looks IDENTICAL to an empty plane just beginning to board.
There's an old saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
This woman claims that her husband is in a plane to Vegas which is almost empty, where just one other passenger can be seen. That would be highly unusual for Labor Day weekend. In order to believe this picture, we would need all of the following:
1) A picture of the plane with all the doors closed
2) Proof that it was taken on Labor Day weekend
3) Proof that it was taken on the way to Vegas
The picture provides none of these. It shows an almost-empty plane with one passenger sitting, with all the overhead bins open, and the cockpit doors open. That screams "early boarding".
This would be like me showing up at Dodger Stadium right when the gates open, being among the first 100 people to enter, and then taking a picture of the empty stadium. I could post, "Wow, nobody likes the Dodgers anymore! The games are empty! This is what happens when you keep losing to shitty teams!"
But that would be meaningless. The game might be sold out. The fact that I took a picture of an empty stadium right when the gate opens proves absolutely nothing about the attendance, and should be ignored. However, if I took a picture of today's game in the 5th inning, and the stadium looked almost empty, that would mean something.
See the difference?
The problem is that a lot of people these days fill in the gaps in their head when they want to believe something. Rather than thinking critically and asking themselves, "Does this make sense? Could this be misleading? Could this be a hoax?", they bend their mind to the point where they can explain away any possible skepticism.
I dealt with the same denial from liberal friends during the whole Jussie Smollett debacle. Anyone with common sense knew that there weren't two cartoonish white MAGA guys walking around at 2am in Chicago when it was 10 degrees outside, carrying a noose and bleach they could use to assault a random black guy. But I had left wing idiots trying to explain to me why it's "believable" this happened, and how "violent MAGA assholes are everywhere". I asked why Jussie was still holding the Subway sandwich when the police showed up at his apartment, and how the sandwich survived the attack. They couldn't explain it, but kept repeating, "This could've happened! I believe him!"
Social media is full of bullshit. This includes left wing bullshit, right wing bullshit, and apolitical bullshit (this one being the latter). People try to get engagement and clicks because it makes them money and/or gets them attention. If you don't put your biases aside and think critically, you're gonna get fooled a lot.
I flew from LA-Vegas first class for $210 in June.Quote:
Originally Posted by lol wow
BUT
It was at midnight.
The plane was mostly empty. This was because nobody wanted to fly at midnight on a weeknight, and also they needed the plane itself in Vegas, so they couldn't cancel the flight. Otherwise it would have been cancelled for sure.
In general, flights to Vegas are pretty cheap.