*** OFFICIAL *** Druff & Drexel Show Thread for 1/29/2013 - $61 FREEROLL - Need Guest Host

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

But in this case you only "feel" you have been slighted by Stars, other people applaud them for paying anything on FPPs which they were not obligated to do. Stars did not "steal" from, you feel slighted by them, big difference.

Suppose a store never delivers your furniture, and you asked for $2,500 for the furniture and $500 for your wasted day waiting for them. The judge awards $2,500 and the store sends you $2,700, because they feel bad you wasted a whole day: should we steal from this store because they didn't reimburse as much as you wanted?

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The other people applauding them for paying FPPs are idiots. Stars reps made very clear posts prior to Black Friday that FPPs were their version of rakeback, and that they had value.

Stars even proved they had value by agreeing to pay out FPPs as part of their initial deal with the DOJ.

They never provided an answer as to why it was okay to keep "remainder" (1-2499) FPPs, other than a complete bullshit answer that the DOJ forced them to do it that way.

Besides, sometimes you have to go by "feel" in life, and not by the letter of the law.

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Why are they idiots? What about anyone who was a customer of FTP or Stars, aren't they idiots? I'm surprised you haven't learned that your beliefs are not common law and sometimes you will disagree with laws and their interpretation. A company overcompensated their customers (going above the agreement they reached with law enforcement) and you consider them thieves. Technically Howard Lederer committed no crimes at FTP (his settlement says so) is it ok to rob him at gunpoint, to steal his car, to hack his bank accounts?

While I wouldn't feel all that bad for him I would still want the perpetrator brought to justice.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Pooh

One last question:

FREE JEWDONK?

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Can't do that.

Every time I unban Marty here, it becomes a spectacle.

Some of it isn't his fault (because people troll him), but a lot of it is (because he has a hard time just blending in and not being the center of attention).

I unbanned his IP awhile ago, though, so he does lurk here.

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i understand your position druff, but why dont let marty back on, he fucks up, just ban him. Let him control his own destiny and at the same time his fans would stop hassling you

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Originally Posted by fluffer

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Can't do that.

Every time I unban Marty here, it becomes a spectacle.

Some of it isn't his fault (because people troll him), but a lot of it is (because he has a hard time just blending in and not being the center of attention).

I unbanned his IP awhile ago, though, so he does lurk here.

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i understand your position druff, but why dont let marty back on, he fucks up, just ban him. Let him control his own destiny and at the same time his fans would stop hassling you

this way you

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I honestly think you need to unban Jewdonk.

He really has not done anything wrong in a long time.

Give the guy a break, if he fucks up again so be it.

He is a decent cat and he is funny.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The other people applauding them for paying FPPs are idiots. Stars reps made very clear posts prior to Black Friday that FPPs were their version of rakeback, and that they had value.

Stars even proved they had value by agreeing to pay out FPPs as part of their initial deal with the DOJ.

They never provided an answer as to why it was okay to keep "remainder" (1-2499) FPPs, other than a complete bullshit answer that the DOJ forced them to do it that way.

Besides, sometimes you have to go by "feel" in life, and not by the letter of the law.

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Why are they idiots? What about anyone who was a customer of FTP or Stars, aren't they idiots? I'm surprised you haven't learned that your beliefs are not common law and sometimes you will disagree with laws and their interpretation. A company overcompensated their customers (going above the agreement they reached with law enforcement) and you consider them thieves. Technically Howard Lederer committed no crimes at FTP (his settlement says so) is it ok to rob him at gunpoint, to steal his car, to hack his bank accounts?

While I wouldn't feel all that bad for him I would still want the perpetrator brought to justice.

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Stars did not go above and beyond any agreement.

The agreement they made with the DOJ included FPPs. They did this, in part, because they wanted to preempt any complaints that they were not fully cashing people out. When all of this went down, Stars went into DOJ-asskissing mode with the following goals:

1) Keep owner Isai Scheinberg out of jail
2) Increase the chance that they will be allowed to have a US presence when online poker becomes legal
3) Look good to most non-US players, so they don't come off as crooks

The management of Pokerstars is very clever, and they came up with a very fair-sounding settlement that the DOJ snap-approved:

1) We will immediately pay all cash balances in full of all US players.

2) Regarding FPPs, we will allow players to convert those points into cash in the exact same way we allowed prior to April 15, 2011, EXCEPT we will not require players to play raked hands in order to "clear" that cash. They will just get it immediately.

This looked like a GREAT and very fair deal at first glance, and the DOJ snap-approved it.

To the average observer, it looked like Stars was being over-generous.

In reality, the FPP thing was a sneaky way to steal from people. Prior to 4/15/2011, a "remainder" of FPPs would be no problem, as you could always earn more, and you could even spend them on items from the store worth less than 2500 FPPs. After 4/15/2011, that remainder became absolutely useless without the ability to earn more, so Stars just kept them instead of converting them on a prorated basis.

I'll give them credit for this genius plan to trick both the DOJ and most players into thinking things were fair (or even above-and-beyond expectation), but in reality this resulted in the theft of millions of dollars of FPPs.

And as I said, Pokerstars did not even offer a legitimate excuse for doing this.

Their answer was simply that the DOJ required them to do it this way, which is completely false. The DOJ required them to stick to their agreement -- which Stars itself proposed. If they proposed to also pay out the remainder of FPP on a prorated basis, would the DOJ have objected? Certainly not.

Regardless, everything in this world is how you perceive it.

I perceive that Pokerstars stole my FPPs.

I perceive that they stole in various other ways over the years -- ones that likely would be ruled against them if it were possible to sue them.

I perceive that, therefore, it is not morally improper to benefit from mistakes in your favor that Pokerstars commits.

BTW, if Pokerstars ever does get a license in the US and has a real presence here, I am seriously considering getting a Finklestein-type lawyer and getting a class-action suit going regarding the FPPs.

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Originally Posted by The_PHA

I honestly think you need to unban Jewdonk.
He really has not done anything wrong in a long time.
Give the guy a break, if he fucks up again so be it.
He is a decent cat and he is funny.

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Solid post.
Every so often I find you are thinking clearly and showing great wisdom.

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Originally Posted by The_PHA

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Originally Posted by fluffer

i understand your position druff, but why dont let marty back on, he fucks up, just ban him. Let him control his own destiny and at the same time his fans would stop hassling you

this way you

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I honestly think you need to unban Jewdonk.

He really has not done anything wrong in a long time.

Give the guy a break, if he fucks up again so be it.

He is a decent cat and he is funny.

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Plenty of Jewdonk over at Skatz. Why don't you join him?