Dan Druff's attempt to get down to 200 pounds by WSOP 2013

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

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Spot on as always.

If you want to be fucking lazy and eat shit on a daily basis, you aren't going to be healthy. Period.

Druff wants to do as little as possible but wants maximum results. It doesn't work that way.

Why even bother.

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

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Totally incorrect. There is a direct correlation with obesity and heart disease. There is no correlation with being a normal weight and heart disease. Not that heart attacks don't happen to normal weight people, but that is simply how you were born, in that you were destined for a short life.

If Druff drops his caloric intake to 1600 calories on average, he is going to drop 20 lbs in probably 4 months. He will be much healthier, with or without the exercise. And don't get me wrong, I like exercise, but I don't do it for health reasons.

The ONLY way to lose weight it to reduce caloric intake. Unless you are Michael Phelps, you cannot exercise enough to lose weight unless you change your eating habits.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Many people in this thread, as well as in the radio chat room, were skeptical of my diet plan.

I can understand this, because it was designed by me for me, by the person who knows me the best -- me.

I am also not guaranteeing it will work.

However, I was trying to come up with something reasonable that:

1) Cuts out a lot of calories
2) Is realistic for me to be able to live with
3) Is reasonable to "transition" to something long-term sustainable after the weight loss is done

If I make some sort of extreme lifestyle change, that will last at most a few weeks before I decide I am miserable and give up on everything.

So rather than embark on that and end up in failure, I picked something more moderate that, at the very least, has a reasonable shot to work.

I also don't want to get into using any chemical product such as diet soda, diet pills, or other weight-loss aids, which might make me lose weight but cause other (possibly worse) problems down the line. I am either going to do this naturally (by taking in fewer calories) or not at all.

I came up with this plan because of the following factors:

- I can go a long time without eating from the time I wake up until much later in the day

- I need a high-calorie drink when I first wake up and before I go to sleep, or I am very unhappy

- I can be happy if I have one satisfying meal per day

- I can get by drinking water for most of the day and not feel too deprived


For those saying, "Don't drink a lot of calories before bed, that's awful" or "Don't eat one meal and starve yourself the rest of the day, that causes weight gain", I'm sorry but that's a load of crap. What I'm doing may not be optimal, but the bottom line is that if I manage to substantially reduce my calories from food and drink on a daily basis, I will lose weight. As long as I don't snap back into the old bad habits, I won't gain it back.

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I tried this I didnt eat before noon everyday which isnt that hard, but the hard part is not gorging the rest of the day. I wasnt losing weight doing it and then I found out thats how Skinny people eat to become sumo wrestlers. Everyones different but for me getting a good low cal protein shake with Probiotics first thing in the morning helps get my metabolism going.

Ive been eating 1900 calories or less a day for a week now and have lost 5 lbs and 2 inches off my waist.

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Originally Posted by The_PHA

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

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Totally incorrect. There is a direct correlation with obesity and heart disease. There is no correlation with being a normal weight and heart disease. Not that heart attacks don't happen to normal weight people, but that is simply how you were born, in that you were destined for a short life.

If Druff drops his caloric intake to 1600 calories on average, he is going to drop 20 lbs in probably 4 months. He will be much healthier, with or without the exercise. And don't get me wrong, I like exercise, but I don't do it for health reasons.

The ONLY way to lose weight it to reduce caloric intake. Unless you are Michael Phelps, you cannot exercise enough to lose weight unless you change your eating habits.

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1600 calories a day L-O-L.

You are out of your fucking mind, as usual.

Druff is 6'4 230lbs that would be the equivalent of starving himself on a daily basis, losing muscle mass and GAINING fat even if weight came off.

Please stop with this nonsense.

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Originally Posted by The_PHA

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

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Totally incorrect. There is a direct correlation with obesity and heart disease. There is no correlation with being a normal weight and heart disease. Not that heart attacks don't happen to normal weight people, but that is simply how you were born, in that you were destined for a short life.

If Druff drops his caloric intake to 1600 calories on average, he is going to drop 20 lbs in probably 4 months. He will be much healthier, with or without the exercise. And don't get me wrong, I like exercise, but I don't do it for health reasons.

The ONLY way to lose weight it to reduce caloric intake. Unless you are Michael Phelps, you cannot exercise enough to lose weight unless you change your eating habits.

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We are not really disagreeing. I am saying a 6'0 180lb man isn't obese. A doctor would find that a very solid healthy number. My point is that just because it is marginally better than 200lbs(which still wouldn't be obese), doesn't mean the end result will be attractive. I am in complete agreement that you can't outwork a bad diet. I think I've posted a video before demonstrating how little calories can really be burnt through exercise compared to eating badly.

My point is in matters like actually looking good with your shirt off on the beach, how you go about it is important. Take Fluffer for example. I believe he has said he's 6'0 160, and he is carrying a good amount of muscle for a 48 year old. Without weight training, most people vastly underestimate how low in weight they need to go to achieve a certain look. Many 6'0 guys would need to go to 147lbs to get a six pack if they weren't weight training. I'm not talking about health and longevity, I'm talking about ego and one's desire to look a certain way.

I always say diet is 80% of the battle, so we aren't in disagreement. I'm just saying if you want to achieve a certain look, it goes beyond getting into a number range, and more into how it's achieved. For health, getting in that range is extremely important.

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

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No matter what losing weight is better for your health. I disagree with you saying weight training but I agree somewhat on what you mean. You dont have to lift weights to gain muscle. I think the biggest mistake alot of us no body builders do is lift like bodybuilders.

Mon bi's & tris etc. You should be working more on functional strength and strectching. I've been doing the most grueling shit that has nothing to do with weights. Theres so many under utilized muscles in the human boday that need stretching and strengthening. Right now Im working on correcting a posterior pelvist tilt from sitting on a cpu all day. Heres an example

Get in the plank position but instead of your elbows under your shoulders put them under your chin. Instead of 12 inches apart keep them at 6 inches. Then while planking squeeze your glutes as hard as posible and rotate your but towards the ground. Ive been doing alot of this shit sweating my ass off and waking up sore everyday. Feels great.

BTW with zero (sitting on the couch) working out Druff's maintenance calories are about 2725 a day @ 6'4 230lbs 41 years old.

Even very minimal exercise brings that up to 3,000. (1-3 days a week)

If he actually got off his ass and really worked out 3-4 times a week (still not really crazy), it goes up to 3400.

To say he should be on a 1600 calorie diet is beyond comprehension, completely false, and unsustainable.

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Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler

BTW with zero (sitting on the couch) working out Druff's maintenance calories are about 2725 a day @ 6'4 230lbs 41 years old.

Even very minimal exercise brings that up to 3,000. (1-3 days a week)

If he actually got off his ass and really worked out 3-4 times a week (still not really crazy), it goes up to 3400.

To say he should be on a 1600 calorie diet is beyond comprehension, completely false, and unsustainable.

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:this

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Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler

BTW with zero (sitting on the couch) working out Druff's maintenance calories are about 2725 a day @ 6'4 230lbs 41 years old.

Even very minimal exercise brings that up to 3,000. (1-3 days a week)

If he actually got off his ass and really worked out 3-4 times a week (still not really crazy), it goes up to 3400.

To say he should be on a 1600 calorie diet is beyond comprehension, completely false, and unsustainable.

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But he doesn't want to maintain the 230 level. Dropping to 200 would mean approx. 2400 calories/day and these calculations are not exact of course. Under 2000/day is relatively easy.

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Originally Posted by ShadyJ

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Originally Posted by BCR

Without some weight training, it doesn't matter the number on the scale, you will still look like shit when you look in the mirror.

Lot of 6'0 180lb dudes look like shit, and their health is only marginally better than it would be at 200. Sure, it's simply calorie deficit equation if your only concern is getting to a number, and not what you actually look like at that number.

This isn't directed at Druff who is simply concerned with longevity and seeing his kid turn 50 and general health without giving up the things he likes, but the whole "it's simply calorie deficit" argument is oversimplified if it's about actually looking good. Yes, you'll lose weight, but there is a fuckton of out of shape men in the normal range of weight.

---

No matter what losing weight is better for your health. I disagree with you saying weight training but I agree somewhat on what you mean. You dont have to lift weights to gain muscle. I think the biggest mistake alot of us no body builders do is lift like bodybuilders.

Mon bi's & tris etc. You should be working more on functional strength and strectching. I've been doing the most grueling shit that has nothing to do with weights. Theres so many under utilized muscles in the human boday that need stretching and strengthening. Right now Im working on correcting a posterior pelvist tilt from sitting on a cpu all day. Heres an example

Get in the plank position but instead of your elbows under your shoulders put them under your chin. Instead of 12 inches apart keep them at 6 inches. Then while planking squeeze your glutes as hard as posible and rotate your but towards the ground. Ive been doing alot of this shit sweating my ass off and waking up sore everyday. Feels great.

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People don't read for context. I used two comparisons, neither obese, and I granted that it was marginally better to be 180 over 200. Neither is obscene. If I used 230 and 180, the health consequences would be significantly different. As far as functional exercise, and programs like p90x, there are already numerous scientific studies proving them inefficient in comparison to actual weight training. They are vastly better than doing nothing, and you can achieve great things with those programs, but they are inefficient simply in time and effectiveness. If one won't stick with weight training, and will stick to those routines, then they are the better choice obv.

When you are in a calorie deficit, without hormones, adding muscle is almost impossible. It's about retaining existing muscle, and weight training is far superior for that. Once a goal weight is achieved, weight training is still much better, but like anything, it's only as good as your resolve and desire to do it. The best choice is always what you'll actually stick with.



edit- To illustrate what I mean by marginal between 180 and 200, use a life expectancy calculator. I used one designed by an Ivy League school. It's here.

http://gosset.wharton.upenn.edu/mort.../CalcForm.html


Using a 41 year old male, and exactly the same criteria for every other answer, these were the results.

The 180lb man:

Life Expectancy: 81.80 years
Lower Quartile: 73.94 years (75% chance you will live longer than this)
Median Lifetime: 83.65 years (50% chance you will live longer than this)
Upper Quartile: 91.18 years (25% chance you will live longer than this)

The 200lb man:


Life Expectancy: 81.76 years
Lower Quartile: 73.96 years (75% chance you will live longer than this)
Median Lifetime: 83.56 years (50% chance you will live longer than this)
Upper Quartile: 91.05 years (25% chance you will live longer than this)




That is a very small difference. This is with everything else equal. Obviously a 200lb man is more likely to take less care of himself, exercise less, and engage in more dangerous eating habits which would change this. But 20lbs by itself is marginal to longevity. That doesn't always equal health, but the difference isn't that much.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BA1Qv1hCUAMq-21.jpg

Yeah weight training while dieting is definitely the way to go. Not only for health benefits, but for how you actually look, as it promotes the weight you lose to be primarily fat. Getting adequate protein while doing this is also beneficial (not sure how much, but there have been studies on this)

how has 408 avoided this thread?

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Originally Posted by Corrigan

Yeah weight training while dieting is definitely the way to go. Not only for health benefits, but for how you actually look, as it promotes the weight you lose to be primarily fat. Getting adequate protein while doing this is also beneficial (not sure how much, but there have been studies on this)

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I am getting plenty of protein here.

BTW, I am 6'2", not 6'4".

My stomach has gotten big during this weight gain. My first goal is for that to fall off, then I will worry about the other stuff.

While this isn't a good example, Ken Scalir actually lost 55 pounds in 2007 due to his obsession with Colleen. He was literally spending all of his money on her, and barely eating. He also became obsessed with losing weight because Colleen told him at one point that he was fat. He went from 230 to 175, and the only exercise he did was a lot of walking.

I am not looking to model my life after Ken Scalir, but I did notice that the change in his appearance was mainly a major reduction in the size of his stomach.

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Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler

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Originally Posted by The_PHA

Totally incorrect. There is a direct correlation with obesity and heart disease. There is no correlation with being a normal weight and heart disease. Not that heart attacks don't happen to normal weight people, but that is simply how you were born, in that you were destined for a short life.

If Druff drops his caloric intake to 1600 calories on average, he is going to drop 20 lbs in probably 4 months. He will be much healthier, with or without the exercise. And don't get me wrong, I like exercise, but I don't do it for health reasons.

The ONLY way to lose weight it to reduce caloric intake. Unless you are Michael Phelps, you cannot exercise enough to lose weight unless you change your eating habits.

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1600 calories a day L-O-L.

You are out of your fucking mind, as usual.

Druff is 6'4 230lbs that would be the equivalent of starving himself on a daily basis, losing muscle mass and GAINING fat even if weight came off.

Please stop with this nonsense.

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What is your point? A 6' 2" guy is supposed to be between 180 - 200 lbs.

The only way to lose weight is to get south of 2,000 calories a day. "Starving" on 1,600 calories a day. LOL. That is a large Pizza every day you dumb fuck.

Log off you Northeast piece of shit.

This is terrible advice unless you are small and sedentary

I ate 2,500 calories a day and lost nearly 2 pounds a week. I am fairly active though

giving up your carbonated sugar beverages is the 1st and easiest thing you need to do. there are many quality substitutes that you can trick your mind/body for this. and once you give up pizza you'll be on your way. .you have to give these things up if you refuse to exercise and expect to lose weight.

go buy some of those low calorie healthy choice entrees..you won't look back.....1600 calories a day is more than doable....

just don't snack,..peanuts sunflower seeds, chips, dorito's etc, etc..

As far as how many calories a day you really want to eat a day. Something like this is a good start:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/s...-of-a-road-map

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Originally Posted by mulva

giving up your carbonated sugar beverages is the 1st and easiest thing you need to do. there are many quality substitutes that you can trick your mind/body for this. and once you give up pizza you'll be on your way. .you have to give these things up if you refuse to exercise and expect to lose weight.

go buy some of those low calorie healthy choice entrees..you won't look back.....1600 calories a day is more than doable....

just don't snack,..peanuts sunflower seeds, chips, dorito's etc, etc..

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Peanuts are DEFINTELY the worst. They are advertised as healthy but in reality a handful is like 200 calories. STAY AWAY