When this first happened I googled "Antigua gambling poker" and there are tons of articles about Antigua fighting with US over laws and what not. Obvious choice, they won't cooperate with the states in these matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
When this first happened I googled "Antigua gambling poker" and there are tons of articles about Antigua fighting with US over laws and what not. Obvious choice, they won't cooperate with the states in these matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
Micon probably came in his pants. Lets be honest. He's always wanted to be Kim Dotcom. I imagine he will make sure to tell his story loud and clear across as many internet podcasts as he can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
Micon in the same league as Dread Pirate now so gangster.
banks didn't want me, e trade turned me down, couldnt get an account at Wells Fargo.
So I bought bitcoin. played poker for bitcoin
Well, prob states that either a) didn't have a serious gaming commission (who are paid to protect the interests of their owners: the casinos) or b) were religiously/morally fanatical about gambling (like in the South).Quote:
Originally Posted by backdoorb
Honestly, Oregon would probably of been the place to setup shop the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrett
huh!
Some of this forums less active posters would be making this place a MUCH better place. And therefore DanDruff. You got these pieces of shit like "skatz" (sonatine/handicapme) whoever else running the conversation, purrposely.
Druff has alot of useful knowledge. I am not sure its able to be all heard yet. Still too many trolls.
That is direct and to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Gambling is what Nevada thrives and they aren't going to let even a small timer like Micon who thinks he's getting around the laws on technicalities make a living being heavily involved in running a poker site especially with the launch of Nevada poker where the state of course gets it's share of the wealth (or lack thereof atm).
I actually saw this coming to some extent just not in the manner of force with several men knocking down his door at gun point. Usually those type of tactics aren't done that much anymore unless the person has a history or is being completely uncooperative although they may not want to give him the heads up otherwise he will just leave the state.
Micon might broadcast to everyone how he loves the bitcoin world, hates the typical political ways of the USA,etc. but if they came at him civilly he would likely have been cooperative.
For his personal sake hopefully he has backups of all his important bitcoin stuff somewhere which I'm sure he probably does.
As for his family even as much as his wife loves him you still have to wonder if she has any regrets of the new world she will have to live the rest of her life.
Druff, can you give some cliffs on what powers Nevada gaming has for the idiots(me) please tx
Remember that Gaming could have simply orchestrated a DOJ raid and run point on it. Home invasion breaches are kind of a specialized thing, I'd expect that either LVPD SWAT or DOJ or even FBI were the pointy end of that stick, regardless of what department's signature was on the paperwork or what was on their flak vests.
I have worked with the MGCB and can tell you that I saw this play coming years ago. Even when it hadn't been said, I knew what had happened to Micon to make him wake up in Antigua. Not looking for a cookie, but odd that this didn't register with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Guaranteed it was 2 Agents from Gaming and a 12 man SWAT team from the State of Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DragonsGuaranteed it was 2 Agents from Gaming and a 12 man SWAT team from the State of Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
This sounds super right to me.
There are agencies that source all this in-house over there (looking at you Department of Energy lab on the outskirts of Vegas), but those guys are usually dealing with classified data. Hence the mat olive pickup trucks with 50 cal machine guns mounted in the rear.
It looks like there's a high chance that the search warrant was for purposes of gathering evidence to charge him with something that will stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZOSo Micon really can't ever come back or will be looking to do a stretch? It costs 250k per person for a citizenship in Antigua or 400k buying property(real estate investment) he should go with the latter option. Just wow. Why did they take so long to spring into action maybe because site was growing possibly into main stream? If people joined his new site could they be in jeopardy as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
As has already been pointed out, they aren't going to search your house at 8am and take your electronics unless the ultimate goal involves criminal charges.
So if he returns to the US, not only does he risk having to face the music for what already occurred prior to February 11, but he will really be in hot water for continuing to run the site after leaving the country.
It seems that he had a choice between ceasing running Seals and facing the legal music for what he already did, or leaving the country for good, avoiding potential prison time, and continuing to run Seals. Looks like he chose the latter.
FYI I do believe his story that he was already planning to move soon, but this forced a snap decision with much more dire consequences.
BTW the search warrants with guns drawn is a lot more common than you might think. This dates back many years.
In the 1980s, a hacker friend of mine got busted. He was a minor, but that didn't stop local police from surrounding his house with guns drawn, handcuffing him, and taking all of his shit.
This was someone with zero criminal history, like most teenage hackers at the time.
He also hadn't done anything that serious, and in fact charges were ultimately dropped (and not because of any technicality).
In 1993, Heidi Fleiss was arrested for her prostitution ring. While this situation was more serious and much more high profile than the teenage hacker I knew, they also surrounded her home with guns and overdid the whole thing.
Police will defend these tactics of simply exercising caution that the suspect won't attack them during the search, but the funny thing is that you won't have nearly the same number of armed officers involved if you call 911 and report an actual violent crime occurring.
So, in short, 10 cops showing up with guns during the search is overkill, but fairly standard operating procedure.
I honestly feel stupid that it didn't register with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DragonsI have worked with the MGCB and can tell you that I saw this play coming years ago. Even when it hadn't been said, I knew what had happened to Micon to make him wake up in Antigua. Not looking for a cookie, but odd that this didn't register with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
It's one those things where a distraction from something similar can make you overlook the obvious.
Everyone in online poker is so focused on the DOJ that they ignore law enforcement threats from other organizations, myself included.
So you do get a cookie for seeing the Nevada Gaming thing while everyone else overlooked it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ket-Cookie.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
In these white collar cases, they do it not so much because they think they are a danger, but because they want to make sure the target doesn't delete anything, or in the cases when the IRS does it , they want to make sure you dont have time to sell or conceal assets. If they gave the target a phone call beforehand, how many computers and hard drives would then be immediately destroyed ? a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
So while it is completely unnecessarily from a firepower prospective, i get why they do it .
He said in the video that they mentioned how they've been reading his social media.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPokerThat is direct and to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Gambling is what Nevada thrives and they aren't going to let even a small timer like Micon who thinks he's getting around the laws on technicalities make a living being heavily involved in running a poker site especially with the launch of Nevada poker where the state of course gets it's share of the wealth (or lack thereof atm).
I actually saw this coming to some extent just not in the manner of force with several men knocking down his door at gun point. Usually those type of tactics aren't done that much anymore unless the person has a history or is being completely uncooperative although they may not want to give him the heads up otherwise he will just leave the state.
Micon might broadcast to everyone how he loves the bitcoin world, hates the typical political ways of the USA,etc. but if they came at him civilly he would likely have been cooperative.
For his personal sake hopefully he has backups of all his important bitcoin stuff somewhere which I'm sure he probably does.
As for his family even as much as his wife loves him you still have to wonder if she has any regrets of the new world she will have to live the rest of her life.
While he didn't say it directly, I think he meant that they told him that they read his anti-government rhetoric, and I'm guessing they used that as justification as to why they brought such force to the search.
That might have actually been a factor -- at least from the red tape standpoint as far as requesting the resources from the departments involved -- but as I said, this is common for search warrants being served. It's not like on TV where a single officer shows up, hands them a paper at the door, and they search the place while the resident stands around with his hands in his pockets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YUUP
A triple post and nothing for the Europeans? Help us out here Druff
The "give me a phone call beforehand" thing from the video was obviously ridiculous, but at the same time, they didn't need 10 officers with guns drawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyIn these white collar cases, they do it not so much because they think they are a danger, but because they want to make sure the target doesn't delete anything, or in the cases when the IRS does it , they want to make sure you dont have time to sell or conceal assets. If they give you a phone call beforehand, how many computers and hard drives would then be immediately tossed or thrown in the bathtub? a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
So while it is completely unnecessarily from a firepower prospective, i get why they do it .
Bringing a few officers to the door telling him to step outside while they search his place (while one or more supervises that he stays put) should have been enough. Guns should have only been drawn if he appeared to be uncooperative. That's just my opinion, though.
From their webpage:Quote:
Originally Posted by YUUPQuote:
Originally Posted by YUUP
A triple post and nothing for the Europeans? Help us out here Druff
http://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=46Quote:
The Enforcement Division is the law enforcement arm of the Gaming Control Board. It maintains five offices statewide and operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Primary responsibilities are to conduct criminal and regulatory investigations, arbitrate disputes between patrons and licensees, gather intelligence on organized criminal groups involved in gaming related activities, make recommendations on potential candidates for the "List of Excluded Persons", conduct background investigations on work card applicants, and inspect and approve new games, surveillance systems, chips and tokens, charitable lotteries and bingo.
So basically this is a state-level law enforcement entity, and is equivalent to state police (though with a very narrow focus).
Unless they are in cooperation with federal authorities, it looks like any charges would be brought against him by the state of Nevada.
With that said, they could easily grab him in another US state and ship him to Nevada to face these charges, assuming they are filed.
Here is more info, though not from an official site:
http://casinogambling.about.com/od/c...trol-Board.htm
Quote:
Gaming Control Board officers are licensed to carry firearms and are POST trained and certified. They work closely with the Nevada Highway Patrol and do make arrests when the situation calls for this action.
Good people sometimes panic, and a lot of good people in Nevada own weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
People on meth always panic, and a lot of people in Nevada are on meth and own weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO
Now that Micon is on Nevada Gaming's shortlist, could that mean that he can be banned from every casino in Nevada??
If so. *giggling*
Oh he's more or less banned from the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffThe "give me a phone call beforehand" thing from the video was obviously ridiculous, but at the same time, they didn't need 10 officers with guns drawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
Bringing a few officers to the door telling him to step outside while they search his place (while one or more supervises that he stays put) should have been enough. Guns should have only been drawn if he appeared to be uncooperative. That's just my opinion, though.
The problem is that in this day of age it is so easy to get rid of data if you are even semi prepared. If you want to keep all the data as is, you need to neutralize everyone in the target building asap. Yes, it sucks and it is traumatizing for people not involved, but I dont know how else you insure evidence inst messed with.
With all that said, I do wish him the best. It is BS that anyone is going after him on this, but he had to know this was a risk going in.
dnegs snitched on him
dnegs always wins
I believe we have 2 prints in life today, physical and digital hands and computers.
Oh I was thinking more on the hypothetical sense if he was to be let back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DragonsOh he's more or less banned from the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins
Efficiency is not a concept government concerns themselves with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
More men, more hours today = bigger budgets next year.
Bigger budget responsibility = bigger salaries and better resume.
Rinse & repeat.
Love the idealism though.
Is it true that one of the raid officers took at look at micon in his tighty whiteys and said firm 5?
Wow this fucker has some nerve:
What happened to the link to the news story from the casino site that someone posted in this thread? unintentional merge delete?
I didn't delete any posts. It's possible one accidentally got moved to the other thread that wasn't meant to. If you find it, let me know and I will move it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DragonsWow this fucker has some nerve:
What happened to the link to the news story from the casino site that someone posted in this thread? unintentional merge delete?
BTW Calvin Ayre doesn't post his own stuff on CalvinAyre.com, nor does he operate his own Twitter.
So, for whatever reason, 2+2 doesn't give much of a shit about this story.
Maybe we care more over here because of who's involved, but you would think the NGC going after the operator of the biggest bitcoin poker room and raiding his house would be big news.
Of course, this is 2+2 we're talking about, where about 90% of all discussions are comprised of unreadable nonsense.
So they took all of Micon's computers and Seals go down the same day. Maybe he was running SWC on a Server from his house?
That Twitter account is always promoting articles on the website. I don't think it's actually Calvin Ayre running it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Dragons
No, his video said that first they seized all of his electronics, and then shortly after that there was some oddity with how Seals' Romanian-based server was running, like it was being attacked or interfered with in some way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno
The fact that both events occurred on February 11th made everyone panic, resulting in Micon leaving the country and everyone else saying goodbye to Seals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsy CollinsOh I was thinking more on the hypothetical sense if he was to be let back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Dragons
Anyone know how he got out of the good ol' USA? How serious were any of the charges against him if they (law enforcement) didn't make him surrender his passport? Usually, that's a requirement along with a heavy bond in cases where law enforcement thinks someone may run. How could they not think he'd be a flight risk (they read his social media)...
Perhaps there was no such stipulations or even a large bond?
Anyways, sounds like a mismatch: 10 agents with guns "violently handcuffing him" and no passport surrender requirements PLUS free to leave the country less than 10 days later...
Of course there's always the chance he slipped his family onto a boat or small plane...
EDIT: I think he hasn't been charged with anything yet. They just had a search of his home. I see. I think. They can do that with handcuffs and not charge you with anything if they're executing a search warrant? Pretty extreme by a gaming enforcement commission