Exploitable Slots

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The game in the preceding post is called River Dragons. The progressive meter is at 4950 and must hit by 5000. But it's not a classic must hit by. It always runs above 4990 before it hits. Average hit is 4995.

Per the par sheet the game has a 15.5% drain between 5K hits. But for practical purposes, if the 500 meter is not in hittable range then you are facing an average 17.5% drain.

The 5K meter moves at .26666%/$1 per every $375 wagered. My expectation on the play is to move the meter $45 at a 17.5% drain.

The 500 meter runs at .4% which means movement of $1 per $250 wager. For every $2 you put in the 5K meter you will put $3 in the 500 meter. So if you start at say 4935 you will put $90 in the 500 meter. You would need the 500 meter to be around $400 to calculate it into the play.

Expected total wager 17K
Expected drain is 17.5% or 2.8K

I wound up with 4K in the machine and hit when I had $828 in credits left. A cost of $3,172.

Total wager was 18K.
drain was 17.6%.

I've yet to spin one of these off and get drained for 20%. I'll play as low as $4925, which means I don't get many plays because I'm out competed by not so sharp AP's that will take them as low as 4880. No way they can win at that number.

I bet at the $3.54 bet level. Then drop down as it gets close.

---

More great stuff from Mickey that 95% of the ass clowns here don’t appreciate.

Actually surprised at the longevity of River Dragons and its clone, close to a decade old now. Outlived a lot of games of its type but you still see the Asian hustlers watching them over $4850. I would assume these are low level hustlers who then call in the big players for $20.

I’ve also been stunned at their longevity, given that civilians have virtually no shot at the top jackpot.

A couple of things: 1 time in 50, the top jackpot will drop at a truly “random” number between $4,000 and $5,000. This is to satisfy gaming regulators so AGS can say it’s “random” (LOL) as it does not mention anything about the $4,990 cutoff in the rules.

Of course the ONE TIME it dropped early on me was also the one time I didn’t want it to as I was using it to build a card at a Caesars property with *extremely* lucrative mailers. (This was 6-7 years ago. That party is long over.)

I once watched a team of Asians in Biloxi take one at $4,875 and start slow-betting it at 88 cents. Over 24 hours later they still hadn’t finished it.

I read something years ago from a slot programmer on how they legally do this. I may not have this exactly right but I believe it was weighted on the chances of it hitting on every spin from reset. The odds were incredibly long (say 5 million to one at $4000) but dropped each spin until near the $5000. Therefore mathematically ensuring it almost always went close to the top. Anything hitting below that was always a possibility but a very long shot.

Sucks about your experience at the Caesars property. As for the Asians, they don’t seem to care about the time spent, or dollars per hour once they find a machine. Watched one building cards on a Hex3 recently in Vegas and he was still there the next morning. Wait until he finds out he didn’t get any offers from it. I do wonder if they were trying to avoid HP’s on the way by playing so low?

I think Aristacrat has taken a few lessons from AGS vis a vie their new game, Phoenix Link, a variant of Buffalo Link. I noticed they run to the top to often so started tracking. From my entry points thru 20 plays its averaging running 60% to the top where 50% should be the average.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Boz

I read something years ago from a slot programmer on how they legally do this. I may not have this exactly right but I believe it was weighted on the chances of it hitting on every spin from reset. The odds were incredibly long (say 5 million to one at $4000) but dropped each spin until near the $5000. Therefore mathematically ensuring it almost always went close to the top. Anything hitting below that was always a possibility but a very long shot.

Sucks about your experience at the Caesars property. As for the Asians, they don’t seem to care about the time spent, or dollars per hour once they find a machine. Watched one building cards on a Hex3 recently in Vegas and
he was still there the next morning. Wait until he finds out he didn’t get any offers from it. I do wonder if they were trying to avoid HP’s on the way by playing so low?

---

Interesting, and that would make sense re the legality issue. Thanks for sharing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I think Aristacrat has taken a few lessons from AGS vis a vie their new game,
Phoenix Link, a variant of Buffalo Link. I noticed they run to the top to often so started tracking. From my entry points thru 20 plays its averaging running 60% to the top where 50% should be the average.

---

Purely anecdotal, but I’ve noticed the same thing.

What’s NOT anecdotal: a ton of hustlers lost a whole lot of money on these taking them in the 1300–1350 range when they first came out.

One interesting feature of these is that they don’t automatically reset at 100 like the Buffalo links. My (completely unproven) theory is that the average hit point is the halfway point between 1888 and the latest reset number, as opposed to 994 across the board.

If this were proven to be true, it would be impossible to properly evaluate a play unless you knew the last reset point. Was likely done on purpose by Aristocrat as a countermeasure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Boz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The game in the preceding post is called River Dragons. The progressive meter is at 4950 and must hit by 5000. But it's not a classic must hit by. It always runs above 4990 before it hits. Average hit is 4995.

Per the par sheet the game has a 15.5% drain between 5K hits. But for practical purposes, if the 500 meter is not in hittable range then you are facing an average 17.5% drain.

The 5K meter moves at .26666%/$1 per every $375 wagered. My expectation on the play is to move the meter $45 at a 17.5% drain.

The 500 meter runs at .4% which means movement of $1 per $250 wager. For every $2 you put in the 5K meter you will put $3 in the 500 meter. So if you start at say 4935 you will put $90 in the 500 meter. You would need the 500 meter to be around $400 to calculate it into the play.

Expected total wager 17K
Expected drain is 17.5% or 2.8K

I wound up with 4K in the machine and hit when I had $828 in credits left. A cost of $3,172.

Total wager was 18K.
drain was 17.6%.

I've yet to spin one of these off and get drained for 20%. I'll play as low as $4925, which means I don't get many plays because I'm out competed by not so sharp AP's that will take them as low as 4880. No way they can win at that number.

I bet at the $3.54 bet level. Then drop down as it gets close.

---

More great stuff from Mickey that 95% of the ass clowns here don’t appreciate.

Actually surprised at the longevity of River Dragons and its clone, close to a decade old now. Outlived a lot of games of its type but you still see the Asian hustlers watching them over $4850. I would assume these are low level hustlers who then call in the big players for $20.

---

I was one of the dummies who tried playing it at $4850 and got my ass kicked. Like mickey said, it hit after $4990. Sad!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Boz

I read something years ago from a slot programmer on how they legally do this. I may not have this exactly right but I believe it was weighted on the chances of it hitting on every spin from reset. The odds were incredibly long (say 5 million to one at $4000) but dropped each spin until near the $5000. Therefore mathematically ensuring it almost always went close to the top. Anything hitting below that was always a possibility but a very long shot.

---

That's exactly how it's legal.

As long as "there's a chance" at every level, it's legal to weight it heavily toward the end. This SHOULDN'T be legal, but it is, because regulators have their heads up their asses regarding modern gambling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTRwD85AQ4

So I just took a Crystal cruise to the Baltics.

Crystal ships are small and the clientele is typically rich, which means that nobody gives a shit about advantage slots, and the casino is fairly small and dead.

The casino was only open about 3 nights out of the 8 I was there.

Most slots were of the fake AP variety, such as the firecracker one (forget the name already).

The two AP-able slots were Buffalo Link (there were 3 of these) and Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls.

Buffalo Link never got past 1100 on any denomination, so while I checked it each day, I never got to play.

Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls was playable, but of course it's a very short play. I ended up $20 ahead or something.



Here's a question for Mickey or anyone else who wants to answer:

On Ultimate Fire, there were three fireballs on the left column at the highest denomination ($100/spin), adding up to $280. It had two "coins" left, meaning I had two shots at it, if I wanted them. I didn't bother chancing it, because the upside was too low.

Was this a +EV play? To me it looked marginal, and with the $100/spin variance there, I didn't want to bother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

So I just took a Crystal cruise to the Baltics.

Crystal ships are small and the clientele is typically rich, which means that nobody gives a shit about advantage slots, and the casino is fairly small and dead.

The casino was only open about 3 nights out of the 8 I was there.

Most slots were of the fake AP variety, such as the firecracker one (forget the name already).

The two AP-able slots were Buffalo Link (there were 3 of these) and Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls.

Buffalo Link never got past 1100 on any denomination, so while I checked it each day, I never got to play.

Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls was playable, but of course it's a very short play. I ended up $20 ahead or something.



Here's a question for Mickey or anyone else who wants to answer:

On Ultimate Fire, there were three fireballs on the left column at the highest denomination ($100/spin), adding up to $280. It had two "coins" left, meaning I had two shots at it, if I wanted them. I didn't bother chancing it, because the upside was too low.

Was this a +EV play? To me it looked marginal, and with the $100/spin variance there, I didn't want to bother.

---

I would have passed as well.

My rule for the leftmost 2 columns on those is that the balls already there need to add up to 4x the bet. (Or have the fire link hall of course)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by go_buccos

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I think Aristacrat has taken a few lessons from AGS vis a vie their new game,
Phoenix Link, a variant of Buffalo Link. I noticed they run to the top to often so started tracking. From my entry points thru 20 plays its averaging running 60% to the top where 50% should be the average.

---

Purely anecdotal, but I’ve noticed the same thing.

What’s NOT anecdotal: a ton of hustlers lost a whole lot of money on these taking them in the 1300–1350 range when they first came out.

One interesting feature of these is that they don’t automatically reset at 100 like the Buffalo links. My (completely unproven) theory is that the average hit point is the halfway point between 1888 and the latest reset number, as opposed to 994 across the board.

If this were proven to be true, it would be impossible to properly evaluate a play unless you knew the last reset point. Was likely done on purpose by Aristocrat as a countermeasure.

---

I had one come back on 1451.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Here's a question for Mickey or anyone else who wants to answer:

On Ultimate Fire, there were three fireballs on the left column at the highest denomination ($100/spin), adding up to $280. It had two "coins" left, meaning I had two shots at it, if I wanted them. I didn't bother chancing it, because the upside was too low.

Was this a +EV play? To me it looked marginal, and with the $100/spin variance there, I didn't want to bother.

---

I assume you are talking about Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls. In general I don't like playing for just 1 column at 1 to go where there is only a 4 or 5 units to be won.
But I like 2 or more columns at 1 to go.

What I look for is, 1st, meters in the columns that significantly increase the number of units to be won.

2nd. I play any column that has a FIRE LINK symbol in it. If you fill a column that has a fire link symbol, besides the money you hit in the column, the bonus round is going to pay at least 15 for 1 and potentially much more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

So I just took a Crystal cruise to the Baltics.

Crystal ships are small and the clientele is typically rich, which means that nobody gives a shit about advantage slots, and the casino is fairly small and dead.

The casino was only open about 3 nights out of the 8 I was there.

Most slots were of the fake AP variety, such as the firecracker one (forget the name already).

The two AP-able slots were Buffalo Link (there were 3 of these) and Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls.

Buffalo Link never got past 1100 on any denomination, so while I checked it each day, I never got to play

---

I've been thinking about taking some cruises' too. Youtube has casino tour videos for all the ships of the major cruise lines. I've gone thru many of them. I wouldn't want to take a cruise on a ship that don't have many or even no advantage slots.

The cruise line with the most advantage slots, unfortunately, is the ghetto cruise line, Carnival.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

So I just took a Crystal cruise to the Baltics.

Crystal ships are small and the clientele is typically rich, which means that nobody gives a shit about advantage slots, and the casino is fairly small and dead.

The casino was only open about 3 nights out of the 8 I was there.

Most slots were of the fake AP variety, such as the firecracker one (forget the name already).

The two AP-able slots were Buffalo Link (there were 3 of these) and Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls.

Buffalo Link never got past 1100 on any denomination, so while I checked it each day, I never got to play

---

I've been thinking about taking some cruises' too. Youtube has casino tour videos for all the ships of the major cruise lines. I've gone thru many of them. I wouldn't want to take a cruise on a ship that don't have many or even no advantage slots.

I also want a live poker game too.

The cruise line with the most advantage slots, unfortunately, is the ghetto cruise line, Carnival.

Here's a link to the Carnival Celebration's casino tour. See how many advantage slots you can find:

https://youtu.be/KfX5T9QvH8U

For those that don't know Ultimate Fire Link Cash Falls here's a link to see how the game plays.

Look for the Fire Link symbol in a column or Mini, Minor, Major meters in the columns:

https://youtu.be/tbx3VgGWMsQ