NEW RULE: Only I can escrow money for PFA contests, PLUS no running stakes on this site without prior permission

I would personally like to thank TT for ripping off jsearles22

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

I agree with Steve O.

Many people would do a lot more than scam for 500. I see reports on the news sometimes where some dudes hold up a liquor store and get like 200 bucks out of it. Even if they were expecting more, they couldnt be expecting huge money from a thing like that, but still they commit a felony that could land them in prison for years.

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We call those people drug addicts.

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Originally Posted by Pooh;62222And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for [B

ROY[/B], with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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ROY???

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Originally Posted by Pooh

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

I get what you are saying now, and I agree with you that stealing/scamming is never a good answer. I wasn't condoning his behavior in anyway, just expalining it. When some poeple are desperate they do desperate things is what I was implying, and that in certain circumstances $500 IS a lot of money to someone. Not saying what happened was right because he was desparate, just saying it happened because he was desparate

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And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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For the record, Steve-O is Vice President of this Clique you speak of

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Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

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Originally Posted by Pooh;62222And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for [B

ROY[/B], with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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ROY???

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Rookie of the year, obv.

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Originally Posted by Jasep

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Originally Posted by Pooh

And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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For the record, Steve-O is Vice President of this Clique you speak of

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My condolenses

A few things here:

Regarding me being "asleep at the switch" with The Templar, I will give the answer of "Yes, you're right, and no, you're not right." Say what? Allow me to explain...

I will admit to being a bit slow to put my foot down on him escrowing the PFA League money. This is mostly because I don't read league/contest threads, since they aren't particularly interesting to those that don't participate, and I generally only open those threads if I'm alerted to a problem. Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled you guys run leagues and contests here, but since I don't play (because I don't want the prize money), I also don't read the threads. If anyone alerted me earlier than I took action, and I didn't (which is possible), I apologize. It's possible I misunderstood your message, or received it when I was out somewhere and then forgot about it when I got home. I only realized the true problem of the situation when someone sent me a PM expressing shock that I would allow Templar to escrow anything given the suspicion about him, at which point I made that post requiring the escrowing to be done through me. I also sent Templar a nice, non-accusatory letter, asking him to send me the money because "some people are nervous, due to past scams that occurred on other sites", and he responded cordially, promising to send me all of the money. I only got $50 of it.

However, regarding people's suspicions, everyone kept asking me not to say anything. Since the money involved was rather small at the time, and since this was only a suspicion and was without any sort of proof, I didn't feel right possibly crying wolf about this. However, obviously I wasn't going to allow him to escrow anything in the meantime, and I stopped that as soon as I understood what was going on there.

It does immensely bother me that there's a good chance a scam took place here, and that's why I have changed the rules making it much harder for anyone to scam through this site. I cannot control when people loan/trade money privately, but the new rules prevent people from running "escrow scams" or unapproved, behind-the-scenes BAP/stakes that turn out to be scams. They also prevent seemingly generous guys from offering large contest prizes that they never intend to actually award.

I should have had the "no escrow with anyone but me" rule in place when I started this forum, and for that I apologize. This is the first time where I am running a forum by myself, and where I make all of the rules, so some of it is still a learn-from-experience process.

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Originally Posted by Pooh

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Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

ROY???

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Rookie of the year, obv.

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Wasn't to me. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

A few things here:

Regarding me being "asleep at the switch" with The Templar, I will give the answer of "Yes, you're right, and no, you're not right." Say what? Allow me to explain...

I will admit to being a bit slow to put my foot down on him escrowing the PFA League money. This is mostly because I don't read league/contest threads, since they aren't particularly interesting to those that don't participate, and I generally only open those threads if I'm alerted to a problem. Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled you guys run leagues and contests here, but since I don't play (because I don't want the prize money), I also don't read the threads. If anyone alerted me earlier than I took action, and I didn't (which is possible), I apologize. It's possible I misunderstood your message, or received it when I was out somewhere and then forgot about it when I got home. I only realized the true problem of the situation when someone sent me a PM expressing shock that I would allow Templar to escrow anything given the suspicion about him, at which point I made that post requiring the escrowing to be done through me. I also sent Templar a nice, non-accusatory letter, asking him to send me the money because "some people are nervous, due to past scams that occurred on other sites", and he responded cordially, promising to send me all of the money. I only got $50 of it.

However, regarding people's suspicions, everyone kept asking me not to say anything. Since the money involved was rather small at the time, and since this was only a suspicion and was without any sort of proof, I didn't feel right possibly crying wolf about this. However, obviously I wasn't going to allow him to escrow anything in the meantime, and I stopped that as soon as I understood what was going on there.

It does immensely bother me that there's a good chance a scam took place here, and that's why I have changed the rules making it much harder for anyone to scam through this site. I cannot control when people loan/trade money privately, but the new rules prevent people from running "escrow scams" or unapproved, behind-the-scenes BAP/stakes that turn out to be scams. They also prevent seemingly generous guys from offering large contest prizes that they never intend to actually award.

I should have had the "no escrow with anyone but me" rule in place when I started this forum, and for that I apologize. This is the first time where I am running a forum by myself, and where I make all of the rules, so some of it is still a learn-from-experience process.

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So how much money are we talking about here?

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Originally Posted by Pooh

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

I get what you are saying now, and I agree with you that stealing/scamming is never a good answer. I wasn't condoning his behavior in anyway, just expalining it. When some poeple are desperate they do desperate things is what I was implying, and that in certain circumstances $500 IS a lot of money to someone. Not saying what happened was right because he was desparate, just saying it happened because he was desparate

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And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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Woah there big guy. Are you implying that I am shady or a scammer?

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Originally Posted by Cokehead

I agree with Steve O.

Many people would do a lot more than scam for 500. I see reports on the news sometimes where some dudes hold up a liquor store and get like 200 bucks out of it. Even if they were expecting more, they couldnt be expecting huge money from a thing like that, but still they commit a felony that could land them in prison for years.

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people get shot in Cleveland over a $20 rock

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Originally Posted by Jasep

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Originally Posted by Pooh

And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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For the record, Steve-O is Vice President of this Clique you speak of

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Steve-O has just moved up to President with the fall from grace of The Templar

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Originally Posted by adamantium

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

A few things here:

Regarding me being "asleep at the switch" with The Templar, I will give the answer of "Yes, you're right, and no, you're not right." Say what? Allow me to explain...

I will admit to being a bit slow to put my foot down on him escrowing the PFA League money. This is mostly because I don't read league/contest threads, since they aren't particularly interesting to those that don't participate, and I generally only open those threads if I'm alerted to a problem. Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled you guys run leagues and contests here, but since I don't play (because I don't want the prize money), I also don't read the threads. If anyone alerted me earlier than I took action, and I didn't (which is possible), I apologize. It's possible I misunderstood your message, or received it when I was out somewhere and then forgot about it when I got home. I only realized the true problem of the situation when someone sent me a PM expressing shock that I would allow Templar to escrow anything given the suspicion about him, at which point I made that post requiring the escrowing to be done through me. I also sent Templar a nice, non-accusatory letter, asking him to send me the money because "some people are nervous, due to past scams that occurred on other sites", and he responded cordially, promising to send me all of the money. I only got $50 of it.

However, regarding people's suspicions, everyone kept asking me not to say anything. Since the money involved was rather small at the time, and since this was only a suspicion and was without any sort of proof, I didn't feel right possibly crying wolf about this. However, obviously I wasn't going to allow him to escrow anything in the meantime, and I stopped that as soon as I understood what was going on there.

It does immensely bother me that there's a good chance a scam took place here, and that's why I have changed the rules making it much harder for anyone to scam through this site. I cannot control when people loan/trade money privately, but the new rules prevent people from running "escrow scams" or unapproved, behind-the-scenes BAP/stakes that turn out to be scams. They also prevent seemingly generous guys from offering large contest prizes that they never intend to actually award.

I should have had the "no escrow with anyone but me" rule in place when I started this forum, and for that I apologize. This is the first time where I am running a forum by myself, and where I make all of the rules, so some of it is still a learn-from-experience process.

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So how much money are we talking about here?

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Pretty sure less than $1000 total, but I could be wrong -- and I think the majority of that was done through the privately-pitched BAP. I think around $200 was lost in the PFA League, and I have $77.22 of that to redistribute.

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Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasi

people get shot in Cleveland over a $20 rock

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Originally Posted by Jasep

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Originally Posted by Pooh

And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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For the record, Steve-O is Vice President of this Clique you speak of

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Steve-O has just moved up to President with the fall from grace of The Templar

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Jasep will always be the head buckaroo.

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Originally Posted by Pooh

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

If you're about to get beat to shit and don't have a dime to your name it is: If you lost your kids' formula money or the rent playing dice $500 is a damn lot of money. Why the fuck do you think people steal bike's and laptops worth $100??? Get your head out of the clouds and come back to the real world, $50, nevermind $500, is a lot of money to some people

***EDIT*** If you don't think so go stand at a subway terminal in a semi-crappy area with $500 in your hand, and then tell the person robbing you at knife point how it's not worth it.

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I would die before I stole a fucking dime from anyone. End of story. Do you know the number one attribute the wealthiest of wealthy use to describe themselves? Integrity. That is the one word I use to live by. I would fucking die before I took a dime.

These people on this site, like weisman..career scammers and proud of it. They are broke a worthless for a reason and will remain so. I heard that jerkoff once on DD radio when he scammed some guy, claimed he had the money to pay him but wouldn't..because he "didn't feel like it." These are the kind of scumfucks that poison these up and coming communities.

Steve-O: I didn't mean that as a personal attack on you, so I apologize if you took it that way. I suppose there are a lot of people who think that way. I say to them...get a fucking job.

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You pretty much know zero about me.

As long as i don't win Rookie of the year two years in a row I'll be fine with that!

We used to have a guy in our Pitch League who was Rookie of the Year 13 years in a row... oh and my ex-brother-in-law was named Most Improved Player two years in a row on his high school soccer team
:lol2

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If this was to me then save it. If not, then carry on.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O

As long as i don't win Rookie of the year two years in a row I'll be fine with that!

We used to have a guy in our Pitch League who was Rookie of the Year 13 years in a row... oh and my ex-brother-in-law was named Most Improved Player two years in a row on his high school soccer team
:lol2

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Believe it or not Steve Stricker was named comeback player of the year (most improved) two years in a row on the PGA Tour.

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Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins

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Originally Posted by Pooh

And I don't want to come off like I'm riding your jock but I always had you pegged for ROY, with hockey guy runner up. I never "got" Templar. Just wasn't my style. I considered him part of the Jesep, Bootsy clique.

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Woah there big guy. Are you implying that I am shady or a scammer?

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Where would you get that from my post? I've called you a lot of things but a scammer I don't recall.

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Originally Posted by Pooh

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Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins

Woah there big guy. Are you implying that I am shady or a scammer?

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Where would you get that from my post? I've called you a lot of things but a scammer I don't recall.

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I thought you were trying to be sly.

To me, the most damning piece of evidence against Templar so far is his silence.

If he were actually out of commission and couldn't log in (due to health reasons), that would be a valid excuse.

However, he has lurked this site a few times since last logging in on the 8th, including once yesterday where he saw my post about canceling his league, and the circumstances surrounding that.

Why wouldn't he sign into his account and post an update at that point, if there were nothing to worry about?

I still don't believe he came here with the intention to scam people, but rather saw an opportunity when he quickly became very popular, and probably needed the money to feed his gambling addiction. This differs from guys like peterdc and Justin Smith, who are completely out to scam people and never intend to pay back. Had Templar kept winning in his gambling ventures, he would have paid people back. Once he lost the money and didn't have an immediate way to pay it back, he became hard to reach.

I am guessing that he was legitimately in the hospital, but it probably wasn't a stroke, and it afforded him the opportunity to make a great excuse to disappear.

Reminds me of the time I was pulled over for having no front license plate, and I quickly made up the lie that a piece of debris on the road had struck my car, knocked off the plate, and then rolled up the car and damaged the rest of it. The officer looked and saw the damage from the debris (which legitimately happened -- just it didn't knock off the plate, because I never put it there in the first place), and he bought my story, letting me off with a warning. So basically I used an actual unfortunate event (road debris fucking up my car) to make an excuse for something I did intentionally (didn't put on a front plate). It just all fit together well.

I think we have a similar story with Templar. He had to go to the hospital for something, and then thought to himself, "Hey, at least this will be a great excuse to disappear from PFA for awhile, and it will work because people can verify I was in the hospital!"

Of course, this is all speculation, but I just can't figure out why Templar would be reading this site and not responding if he is totally innocent.

(He hasn't been on -- at least from that IP -- since yesterday, though.)