:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Deal
Actually if you stopped calling in it would hurt the show more. I imagine your segments are the highest rated of the show.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
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:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by DealActually if you stopped calling in it would hurt the show more. I imagine your segments are the highest rated of the show.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
I thought all of your points were excellent, and it's disappointing how a number of people there don't get what's wrong with his response to the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
I think the biggest thing people need to take from that whole exchange is that Micon's commitment to "free speech" is bullshit. He wants free speech only if it's something that doesn't negatively affect him or his wife.
Micon has always painted himself as a champion of internet free speech, and in fact claimed that my supposed lack of commitment to that concept was the main reason he didn't want me as an owner of DD anymore.
I had so many long, frustrating telephone conversations where Micon lectured me about how I "didn't understand the DonkDown project" and "we don't ban people here". When people posted famliy member pictures and information, he spent hours on the phone fighting with me that these people shouldn't be banned, and that such a thing should be allowed. When trolls would intentionally break rules to fuck with me, he would reverse their bans, because, in his words, "You can't just ban people because they're being assholes to you."
All of that completely goes out the window when he (or his wife) bans a longtime regular for simply being "jerky" to him in chat, and then he condescendingly mocks anyone that asks about it.
Many of the "stop taking the internet so seriously" types were the ones whining the loudest when I banned certain people last year. Many of the people saying, "You don't fuck with the owner and expect nothing to happen" are the same ones who bitched about me being "heavy handed" and "abusing power" last year.
The bottom line is that Micon doesn't really believe in free speech. He never has. The name of his ex-wife and cousin were censored from the site, but he refused to censor my family's names. Bryan Micon is only an advocate of free speech if it hurts others, but not him.
Of course, nobody should really be surprised by this.
This is the same guy who would harass people with repeated telephone calls on his radio show in order to get them to publicly discuss a shady situation, yet he banned me from radio so I can't tell his listeners about how he cheated me.
Once again, Bryan Micon is only for free speech when it doesn't make him look bad.
People were banned on DD for other reasons as well, unrelated to forum rules fyi. I know that you might not have been privy to that info but nevertheless.
His reasoning for not talking to you is sound on a bunch of levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
1) You are no longer a part owner of DD
2) He was sick of dealing with you as an owner and now he is free from the requirement
3) You keep threatening him with lawsuits so engaging you in anyway allows you to freeroll him for information
Why do you keep stating that he is avoiding you for reasons other than the ones listed?
Why do you keep looking in the rear view mirror instead of navigating this ship forward through the open channel 2+2 gave you? Any new members will laugh at the petiness you are engaging in and form a first impression that won't keep them reading.
I don't always agree with Deal's assertions, but I respect his logical approach and the consistency of his advice to Druff to forget about the drama with micon/DD and keep the focus on the future of PFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by DealHis reasoning for not talking to you is sound on a bunch of levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
1) You are no longer a part owner of DD
2) He was sick of dealing with you as an owner and now he is free from the requirement
3) You keep threatening him with lawsuits so engaging you in anyway allows you to freeroll him for information
Why do you keep stating that he is avoiding you for reasons other than the ones listed?
Why do you keep looking in the rear view mirror instead of navigating this ship forward through the open channel 2+2 gave you? Any new members will laugh at the petiness you are engaging in and form a first impression that won't keep them reading.
We need to add a rep system here IMO.
Triple post tilt, obviously.
A lot of people are asking about the circumstances that abruptly ended the show.
Here is Micon's only comment about the situation:
The above seems to strongly imply that Micon's iMac (the machine he uses to run radio) crashed or malfunctioned, and knocked the whole show offline.Quote:
The show had technical difficulties as usual, and I haven't listened to the show (rarely do) but however much of the debate that got recorded is at the end of the 5/2 episode of DD radio (literally at the very end because the imac snapped it all off whenever it did) so the listener can judge for themselves.
But there are some problems with that.
When radio crashed on Wednesday, the whole site went down, as well. You couldn't chat. You couldn't post. You couldn't even see the forums. The whole site was unreachable.
There are a few reasons this is significant.
First, radio runs on a separate server. There is donkdown.com and then there is radio.donkdown.com. They are on two separate machines and have two separate IP addresses.
Second, Micon's iMac does not affect the rest of the site. This is because his iMac is only used to connect to radio.donkdown.com and send it the show to broadcast. If it crashes, it does not send the server (either the radio or the main one) down with it. Micon could put weapons-grade dynamite under his iMac, detonate it during the show, and both the radio server and forum server would stay up and running. The show would end, of course, but it would never cause everything to crash.
Now, a tech-savvy guy like sonatine might point out that donkdown's "server" is actually just a virtual private server, meaning that it's not actually its own machine. So isn't it likely that donkdown.com and radio.donkdown.com, while funcitoning as two separate servers, were actually on the same physical machine, and would have both gone down if the machine failed?
No, because radio.donkdown.com was purchased much later than donkdown.com, and is likely on a different machine altogether. I know because I was the one who purchased it.
But what if the company providing their servers was having a system-wide outage? Not likely, because I checked other websites hosted by that same company, and none were having problems.
Finally, a server-side crash would be unlikely to crash Micon's iMac, because again, they are completely different systems. Again, someone could light dynamite under the donkdown servers and obliterate them, and Micon's iMac would still perform normally, even during radio.
So for the show's crash to have been unintentional, the following would ALL have to be true:
- The radio server crashed.
- The main donkdown server, likely housed on a completely different machine, crashed simultaneously.
- Somehow these crashes also caused Micon's iMac (a completely separate machine located in Micon's house) to crash, thus leading Micon to believe that the problem was his iMac's fault.
- Other sites powered by the same host somehow stayed online, and it was just the two donkdown servers (which appear completely separate from one another) that crashed.
- The crash just happened to occur when Micon was backed into a corner in a debate.
I'll let the reader decide what they believe actually happened.
Jesus Druff, Baruikn Zeh.
I don't know how long you were part of DD, but Micon has always laid free speech and openness as a cornerstone of his site. In fact, he would use his radio show to harass scammers on the phone, calling repeatedly to demand comment from them. One of his defenses for doing so was his supposed willingness to take calls and discuss accusations from his own detractors. In fact, he even took a call from a guy who claimed Micon owed him $500 from years ago, and Micon bragged on the air how he had nothing to hide about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DealHis reasoning for not talking to you is sound on a bunch of levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
1) You are no longer a part owner of DD
2) He was sick of dealing with you as an owner and now he is free from the requirement
3) You keep threatening him with lawsuits so engaging you in anyway allows you to freeroll him for information
Why do you keep stating that he is avoiding you for reasons other than the ones listed?
Why do you keep looking in the rear view mirror instead of navigating this ship forward through the open channel 2+2 gave you? Any new members will laugh at the petiness you are engaging in and form a first impression that won't keep them reading.
I never said he is legally required to talk to me. I said that he is a huge hypocrite for not doing so, especially since he has been willing to discuss the matter in public with other parties (Chinamaniac, Tony Bags), so obviously this isn't just a matter of not wanting to comment to avoid hurting himself in a lawsuit. He just doesn't want to talk to me directly, because he knows I have all the facts and will make him look like the shady scumbag that he is.
Say that I had a dispute with a radio host of the 2+2 Pokercast. It would be totally understandable that these guys wouldn't take my call and discuss the matter on-air, as their show has never been about confrontation and harassing scammers. Even if I had a valid beef against them, they could make a very reasonable argument why such discussions have no place on their show.
Micon is different. He is all about free speech. He is all about public outing and harassment of scammers/scumbags. He is all about pressing people to directly answer the accusations against them, even in matters that are absolutely none of his business. For him to refuse to debate me on air about his own shady behavior is beyond hypocritical.
One of the reasons he claimed to hang up on me was, "Druff will never stop arguing, so there's no point to engage him."
That's a completely bogus reason. He runs the radio controls, so he can set a time limit and make me stop arguing -- by cutting it off when it has gone on too long! And it doesn't matter if I won't capitulate to his points, because the whole point of an on-air debate is to let the listener decide who won. If I'm a rambling crazy person who can't see how wrong he is, then Micon should come out smelling like roses, and should covet the opportunity to debate with me.
Your last point (that I should think less about this and more about growing this site) is reasonable, and I can respect that. Unfortunately, and perhaps you or others can help me out here, I'm at a loss for how to "get the word out" about this site during 2+2's downtime. I have 1300 or so Twitter followers, but they obviously all know about this site by now. I have a few retweeters (who I appreciate, btw), but again, most of those people have also gotten the word out about the site. I would love to reach the 2+2 community somehow (the ones that have no idea about PFA) and bring many of them here, but how do I do this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI don't know how long you were part of DD, but Micon has always laid free speech and openness as a cornerstone of his site. In fact, he would use his radio show to harass scammers on the phone, calling repeatedly to demand comment from them. One of his defenses for doing so was his supposed willingness to take calls and discuss accusations from his own detractors. In fact, he even took a call from a guy who claimed Micon owed him $500 from years ago, and Micon bragged on the air how he had nothing to hide about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deal
I never said he is legally required to talk to me. I said that he is a huge hypocrite for not doing so, especially since he has been willing to discuss the matter in public with other parties (Chinamaniac, Tony Bags), so obviously this isn't just a matter of not wanting to comment to avoid hurting himself in a lawsuit. He just doesn't want to talk to me directly, because he knows I have all the facts and will make him look like the shady scumbag that he is.
Say that I had a dispute with a radio host of the 2+2 Pokercast. It would be totally understandable that these guys wouldn't take my call and discuss the matter on-air, as their show has never been about confrontation and harassing scammers. Even if I had a valid beef against them, they could make a very reasonable argument why such discussions have no place on their show.
Micon is different. He is all about free speech. He is all about public outing and harassment of scammers/scumbags. He is all about pressing people to directly answer the accusations against them, even in matters that are absolutely none of his business. For him to refuse to debate me on air about his own shady behavior is beyond hypocritical.
One of the reasons he claimed to hang up on me was, "Druff will never stop arguing, so there's no point to engage him."
That's a completely bogus reason. He runs the radio controls, so he can set a time limit and make me stop arguing -- by cutting it off when it has gone on too long! And it doesn't matter if I won't capitulate to his points, because the whole point of an on-air debate is to let the listener decide who won. If I'm a rambling crazy person who can't see how wrong he is, then Micon should come out smelling like roses, and should covet the opportunity to debate with me.
Your last point (that I should think less about this and more about growing this site) is reasonable, and I can respect that. Unfortunately, and perhaps you or others can help me out here, I'm at a loss for how to "get the word out" about this site during 2+2's downtime. I have 1300 or so Twitter followers, but they obviously all know about this site by now. I have a few retweeters (who I appreciate, btw), but again, most of those people have also gotten the word out about the site. I would love to reach the 2+2 community somehow (the ones that have no idea about PFA) and bring many of them here, but how do I do this?
Druff, maybe it would be a good idea to contain all your thoughts and issues with Micon to one thread? I understand why you're pissed but I agree with Deal in that you have a great opportunity here and focusing too much on your personal drama with another website is probably not a good thing for this site. Get your radio show with Drex up and running at a regular time ASAP, avoid the Micon issue and focus on bigger poker issues, comedy, prank calls and all the other good shit you brought to DD radio before Micon ruined it. Getting solid guests and hosting a good radio show will be the best way to help blow this site up. WSOP is coming up, run a show and maybe write an article giving advice, tips etc for players. once or twice a show let people know the address for your forum and its bound to grow. I think if you want to stick it to Micon the best way to do it is to minimize the focus on that issue, its been hashed over well enough and your last radio show got your point across and focus on what matters to most people. Making a great radio show and a solid forum is the way to finish Micon, responding to every little thing he does isnt. I know thats your nature but Id try to temper it now, its gone on long enough. Other than a few loyalists to either side nobody really gives a fuck about your feud with DD and it makes for boring threads and boring radio.
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Honestly, I think he should just move on. He has been wronged but to most people it doesnt appear to be in a very big way and I think it's a turn off if druff uses a heavy handed approach. If he just drops the saga, focuses on building this place and radio people over there will forget about it all, the threats of relatives names, addresses etc will die down and he won't have a thing to worry about. I realize this isn't in his nature and he's likely to do something like file a law suit but I really do think that reflects badly on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
This site is already more active than DD is, clearly the radio show here will be infinitely better than what Micon is putting together, Druff is still the smarter guy and still has a lot more to offer poker fans and a forum than Micon does. He's already crushed Micon, it's time to move on IMO. What do you think he should do regarding that situation?
you are naive sir, Druff should file a law suit and scare the crap out of micon into honoring the contract he signed, all Druff asked for was a paltry $1,200 and the right to have his FAMILY protected from creepy DD members, is that too much to ask of micon for 26.4% of ownership ???? is that how you treat a partner ???? if micon thinks he has a good case then he should want to go to court and show the big bad druff who's boss, the truth is micon is ruining whatever chance he had left of getting new loans and stakes with this public display of how he does businessQuote:
Originally Posted by peter mcneilHonestly, I think he should just move on. He has been wronged but to most people it doesnt appear to be in a very big way and I think it's a turn off if druff uses a heavy handed approach. If he just drops the saga, focuses on building this place and radio people over there will forget about it all, the threats of relatives names, addresses etc will die down and he won't have a thing to worry about. I realize this isn't in his nature and he's likely to do something like file a law suit but I really do think that reflects badly on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooh
This site is already more active than DD is, clearly the radio show here will be infinitely better than what Micon is putting together, Druff is still the smarter guy and still has a lot more to offer poker fans and a forum than Micon does. He's already crushed Micon, it's time to move on IMO. What do you think he should do regarding that situation?
Druff,
Find an attorney. People over here will surely chip in if necessary to see you sue the shit out of that clown.
Also, focus on content and radio like they are saying. This is key.
with all this evidence set forth it's quite clear that micons just a scamming scumbag and anyone that still associates with him knowing all this information are probably no different.
2nd time this week I agree with Deal. There may be hope for us yet; no homo of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by DealHis reasoning for not talking to you is sound on a bunch of levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by OSA
1) You are no longer a part owner of DD
2) He was sick of dealing with you as an owner and now he is free from the requirement
3) You keep threatening him with lawsuits so engaging you in anyway allows you to freeroll him for information
Why do you keep stating that he is avoiding you for reasons other than the ones listed?
Why do you keep looking in the rear view mirror instead of navigating this ship forward through the open channel 2+2 gave you? Any new members will laugh at the petiness you are engaging in and form a first impression that won't keep them reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DealQuote:
Originally Posted by OSA
His reasoning for not talking to you is sound on a bunch of levels.
1) You are no longer a part owner of DD
2) He was sick of dealing with you as an owner and now he is free from the requirement
3) You keep threatening him with lawsuits so engaging you in anyway allows you to freeroll him for information
Why do you keep stating that he is avoiding you for reasons other than the ones listed?
Why do you keep looking in the rear view mirror instead of navigating this ship forward through the open channel 2+2 gave you? Any new members will laugh at the petiness you are engaging in and form a first impression that won't keep them reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deal
because Druff feels responsible if his family gets harassed or exposed by DD internet creeps
he wants to protect his family
IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
no doubt that every one should be protected from creepy dd members, many of which are fan favorites here and that have relentlsy shit bombed DD with stupid posts, Right Dorkstar and nightmarefish etc etc you know who you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasi
Estntialy Druff still wants to have his fingers on as many buttons as he posably can and is not happy when a button is broken or does not work.
I have always thought all of this shit should have been kept private and no one would be the wiser. till druff posted it i am sure no one knew that druff still had admin powers at dd.
So he blew up his owne spot why?? Druff is way to smart to do this by accident or tilt post it i think.