*** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

lol at your one asian poster blake not having an opinion this ok guy

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Okay, so I will admit that I hadn't looked at Yang's plan prior to now because he's not a serious candidate, and he has no chance.

However, since we are discussing the matter now, I decided to delve into it.

First off, I see that indeed he's not planning to directly tax the rich in order to get the $2.5 trillion. Actually, it's $2.8 trillion, because the figure of the number of US adults I got was incorrect.

Anyway, he's planning upon a 10% VAT, which would be a disaster. Some states like California have regions with as much as an existing 10% sales tax, so this would be a huge new sales tax burden. It would also be a regressive tax and hurt the poor most. Laughably, Yang tries to address this by claiming that the prices of manufacturing goods would come down under this plan (???), so it would mostly offset the 10% increase in price. L O fucking L.

Also, the 10% VAT would fall way short of raising the required money, even with Yang's other proposals such as raising capital gains tax. It would only get about halfway there, according to this study.

Again, this would also disincentivize minimum wage work. SPIT This tried to claim that it's not equivalent to the 99-week unemployment abused by OSA and others, as unemployment benefits don't allow you to work (at least not on the record), whereas a UBI would allow you to work without penalty. However, I think he's also not understanding how awful and tedious minimum wage jobs tend to be. People are creatures of habit. If a couple is subsisting on $24k per year -- or something close to it -- and they can get the same $24k per year while not working, they will maintain the same lifestyle and not have to work. This won't be true for everyone, but it will be true for a lot. You wrongly assume that they will go work a minimum wage job to make double the money. These jobs suck so much that the people holding them are really doing so out of necessity. Take away the absolute necessity, and a lot of people will simply choose to do nothing, or to take gig/part-time work in order to supplement what they need to get by.

SPIT This also says that the $1000/month will also replace the welfare system, and will save a lot of money there. However, the entire amount of welfare in the US is about $1 trilion, so Yang is essentially increasing this by a factor of 3. Even if you take all of Yang's awful proposals on how to raise the money, and even if you factor in the $1 trillion in welfare savings, we still fall short.

There's also the general concept that people are being taxed so everyone can get $12k/year for just existing, and that we will all be paying for lazy, able-bodied people to be able to get by if they simply choose not to work. I find that to be an obnoxiously unfair burden put upon those who put out the effort to work. The welfare system has long been criticized for the same reason, but at least there were some reasonable justifications (such as what to do with the single mother who can't make enough money to pay or childcare while she's at work). Here all of those justifications are out the window. If someone simply chooses not to work, we are going to support them anyway. Terrible.

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I feel like it's just Yangs version of 'we're goin to build a wall and mexico is going to pay for it'.

UBI isn't a radical idea, but $1k a month in the next 5 years seems like it obviously is. Has he explained how he would implement it? I imagine if lightening struck and he won the best he'd be able to do would be like a $200 'freedom dividend' tax credit every year that wasn't based on income.

Recent battleground polls show Trump up on every Democratic candidate in WI, MI, OH, AZ and PA. That is all that matters.

It's effectively over, Trump will win again and perhaps carry New Hampshire to make it even more decisive.

Nobody on the planet cares about Ukraine except the media and some beltway obsessers in Washington.

One of the things with UBI is, poor people are likely to spend it, stimulating the economy.
Also likely to cut down welfare fraud but simply removing all welfare and giving "everyone" the money.
that also cuts down on administration costs and employees needed to administer it.
Obv give it to citizens 18 or older.


On the other hand, only have to look how the canadian government fucked the people doing their experiment with it.

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Originally Posted by blake

i don't have much of an opinion on this, but yang and others would tell you that with constant advances in robotics and artificial intelligence, there simply won't be nearly as many jobs in the future as there are now. hence the need for a guaranteed income.

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We've heard the "automation will kill jobs" argument for the past 70 years, and it hasn't happened. New jobs were created to replace those that were lost.

Right now we have a very low unemployment rate. When we start having a true low-end job shortage, then we can talk about UBI. So far that hasn't materialized at all.

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Originally Posted by tgull

Recent battleground polls show Trump up on every Democratic candidate in WI, MI, OH, AZ and PA. That is all that matters.

It's effectively over, Trump will win again and perhaps carry New Hampshire to make it even more decisive.

Nobody on the planet cares about Ukraine except the media and some beltway obsessers in Washington.

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Actually, it's Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida that are the real battleground states. They won't be stupid enough to vote for Trump again. Trump is causing Republican Governors in red states like Kentucky to lose elections. It's fucking over. The blue wave is coming.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016...ebookJumbo.png

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by blake

i don't have much of an opinion on this, but yang and others would tell you that with constant advances in robotics and artificial intelligence, there simply won't be nearly as many jobs in the future as there are now. hence the need for a guaranteed income.

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We've heard the "automation will kill jobs" argument for the past 70 years, and it hasn't happened. New jobs were created to replace those that were lost.

Right now we have a very low unemployment rate. When we start having a true low-end job shortage, then we can talk about UBI. So far that hasn't materialized at all.

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no single post has convinced me more of the need to make an extremely serious run at cashing in on automation killing jobs.

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

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Originally Posted by tgull

Recent battleground polls show Trump up on every Democratic candidate in WI, MI, OH, AZ and PA. That is all that matters.

It's effectively over, Trump will win again and perhaps carry New Hampshire to make it even more decisive.

Nobody on the planet cares about Ukraine except the media and some beltway obsessers in Washington.

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Actually, it's Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida that are the real battleground states. They won't be stupid enough to vote for Trump again. Trump is causing Republican Governors in red states like Kentucky to lose elections. It's fucking over. The blue wave is coming.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016...ebookJumbo.png

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Umm, no. There is no blue wave. The economy is huge right now and that is really all anyone cares about. Stay off MSNBC, you will be a lot smarter. Look at the recent battleground polls. Trumps dominating. Did you not follow the 2016 election? I guess not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrH3peetDjQ

Damn it! I’m for Bernie again! He scared me with his anti-billionaire wealth tax plan, but the guy is what America needs right now to start healing itself from the political sickness that lead to Trump becoming president.

https://youtu.be/srm2kEh2taA

remember the papa bush tagline for election was "no new taxes" that was more or less the extent of his platform.

peep went nuts over this much like when emmeril added garlic to the dish he was cooking by saying "let's kick it up a notch"

amirite

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Originally Posted by tgull

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

Actually, it's Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida that are the real battleground states. They won't be stupid enough to vote for Trump again. Trump is causing Republican Governors in red states like Kentucky to lose elections. It's fucking over. The blue wave is coming.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016...ebookJumbo.png

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Umm, no. There is no blue wave. The economy is huge right now and that is really all anyone cares about. Stay off MSNBC, you will be a lot smarter. Look at the recent battleground polls. Trumps dominating. Did you not follow the 2016 election? I guess not.

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The economy is not what everyone thinks about. A healthy economy is great but those who exist only for the ever increasing profit margin, regardless of how that happens are the least hurt when things change. Joe average is not much different than 20 years ago and neither is Joe boss or Joe bum

Joe Boss is really happy when he gets Joe average and even Joe Bum agree with him

yeah again im inclined to agree; saying the economy is great only goes so far when your base has to lock down 60 hours of work per week and still has to choose between rent, food, or medicine.

hard to say if they care now, but they will sure as hell care when they start taking out unregulated payday loans to cover utilities.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

yeah again im inclined to agree; saying the economy is great only goes so far when your base has to lock down 60 hours of work per week and still has to choose between rent, food, or medicine.

hard to say if they care now, but they will sure as hell care when they start taking out unregulated payday loans to cover utilities.

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sad but true.

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

The blue wave is coming.

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Have we gotten a TR from Diggy yet?


Would like an update on how the trailblazer volunteer for Tusli is doing, any interesting stories?

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Originally Posted by OSA

Have we gotten a TR from Diggy yet?


Would like an update on how the trailblazer volunteer for Tusli is doing, any interesting stories?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvOewSo0ORE

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Originally Posted by sonatine

yeah again im inclined to agree; saying the economy is great only goes so far when your base has to lock down 60 hours of work per week and still has to choose between rent, food, or medicine.

hard to say if they care now, but they will sure as hell care when they start taking out unregulated payday loans to cover utilities.

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I literally know zero point zero people in that situation. Must be my white privilege, I’m sure they’re everywhere.

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Originally Posted by nightmarefish

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Originally Posted by sonatine

yeah again im inclined to agree; saying the economy is great only goes so far when your base has to lock down 60 hours of work per week and still has to choose between rent, food, or medicine.

hard to say if they care now, but they will sure as hell care when they start taking out unregulated payday loans to cover utilities.

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I literally know zero point zero people in that situation. Must be my white privilege, I’m sure they’re everywhere.

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Those people only exist in the imagination of liberal boomers.

Another reason Trump will win in a landslide.

so are we all agreed that, considering what just happened in the UK, trump's really going to crush the democrat candidate?

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

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Originally Posted by tgull

Recent battleground polls show Trump up on every Democratic candidate in WI, MI, OH, AZ and PA. That is all that matters.

It's effectively over, Trump will win again and perhaps carry New Hampshire to make it even more decisive.

Nobody on the planet cares about Ukraine except the media and some beltway obsessers in Washington.

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Actually, it's Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida that are the real battleground states. They won't be stupid enough to vote for Trump again. Trump is causing Republican Governors in red states like Kentucky to lose elections. It's fucking over. The blue wave is coming.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016...ebookJumbo.png

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if the democrats put up against a candidate promising to take away your private health insurance in favor of medicare, trump will win and it probably won't be close

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Originally Posted by blake

so are we all agreed that, considering what just happened in the UK, trump's really going to crush the democrat candidate?

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Shit I don’t know man. I do think there’s lots of people in the country that won’t admit to their friends, co-workers etc that they actually like Trump. Also lots of people that quietly are against the whole “woke” movement. Depending on where you live, If you openly say you support Trump and say the “woke” movement is bullshit you can catch a shit ton of backlash and many people don’t want to be in that spot.

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Originally Posted by blake

so are we all agreed that, considering what just happened in the UK, trump's really going to crush the democrat candidate?

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its so hard to ignore all the incredibly red flags that he cant possibly pull off another electoral victory but yeah this is exactly what it felt like in 2016.

I think he wins bigger. The only people I’ve seen him lose are like a tony on here. None in real life. I know some druff tony types who sat out last time that he’s converted. The world hasn’t ended. He hasn’t lobbed a nuke at a dude on Twitter. That was his biggest red flag.

If it’s 4 years of peace and prosperity, even if it’s fueled by debt or whatever, people will not give a fuck.

Hillary carried a lot of baggage, but she was a smart and incredibly experienced candidate. She’s a rough bitch. She was corrupt, but I felt way more confident with her in charge than any of these Dems running. Biden is the only legitimate candidate that might be able to get the black people to wake up and vote and he’s a shell of himself and not particularly bright. Is there any dem you’re enthused with, that black people actually like? The gop can’t beat an enthused dem base, but these candidates aren’t close and even the Trump hatred has moved from a 99 to a 90. I see trump rolling if the economy doesn’t tank or he steps ass backward into some unforeseen conflict. We’re rolling out three geriatrics and a fag at him. It doesn’t matter that he’s an obese geriatric. His insanity and amphetamines make him appear energetic. No offense to the fags here, but black people are not fans.

I think he’s like 80% at this point. We needed like Oprah or Michelle Obama to come in and they’d wax him, but not these candidates. The only bright spot is he’s a one off, the rest of the gop makes the Dems look exciting, and all the shit always hits the fan the second term.

aight politicos...fill me in on why id be crazy not to put a few units on the YES here...

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

aight politicos...fill me in on why id be crazy not to put a few units on the YES here...

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A five unit play imo.

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Originally Posted by Tellafriend

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

aight politicos...fill me in on why id be crazy not to put a few units on the YES here...

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A five unit play imo.

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at that price kinda what I was thinking too...but I do realize that im giving trump 11 months to do something insanely fucking retarded...

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Originally Posted by blake

if the democrats put up against a candidate promising to take away your private health insurance in favor of medicare, trump will win and it probably won't be close

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People are only happy with their health insurance if they pay zero money out of pocket and only if it covers everything which their plan probably doesn't. Medicare covers only 80% and currently you can't apply until age 65. Then you need additional coverage which can cost even more money.

You underestimate how many people and voters are fucking sick of Trump.

They don't like seeing him on TV fucking up every single day. They wish he would just go away.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/k8TZ1yNK3SU/maxresdefault.jpg

biden just came out in favor of reinstating the assault weapons ban.

which is noteworthy because it feels like the only actual policy proposal anyone at all has stated. everything else has been ephemeral middle class wish fulfillment.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

yeah again im inclined to agree; saying the economy is great only goes so far when your base has to lock down 60 hours of work per week and still has to choose between rent, food, or medicine.

hard to say if they care now, but they will sure as hell care when they start taking out unregulated payday loans to cover utilities.

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If this were true, Trump would be in trouble.

Fortunately for him, it's not true at all.

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

aight politicos...fill me in on why id be crazy not to put a few units on the YES here...

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Is it a push if he suspends elections?

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Originally Posted by sonatine

biden just came out in favor of reinstating the assault weapons ban.

which is noteworthy because it feels like the only actual policy proposal anyone at all has stated. everything else has been ephemeral middle class wish fulfillment.

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A weak attempt at pandering with no practical consequence. He'd be better off joining the others and giving away more shit to the 50% who already don't contribute.

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Originally Posted by Tellafriend

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Originally Posted by sonatine

biden just came out in favor of reinstating the assault weapons ban.

which is noteworthy because it feels like the only actual policy proposal anyone at all has stated. everything else has been ephemeral middle class wish fulfillment.

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A weak attempt at pandering with no practical consequence. He'd be better off joining the others and giving away more shit to the 50% who already don't contribute.

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yeah but the key word here is 'reinstating'. we had a ban. we can have one again. thats a quantum leap towards realistic from universal income or free health care or eliminating student loan debt.

tulsi is supposedly on the fence about impeachment and will be introducing an alternative measure to censure him. if she goes this route, she'll have officially lost me as a fan.

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Originally Posted by blake

tulsi is supposedly on the fence about impeachment and will be introducing an alternative measure to censure him. if she goes this route, she'll have officially lost me as a fan.

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Yeah, shame on her for not wanting Trump to get re-elected in a landslide.

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Originally Posted by blake

tulsi is supposedly on the fence about impeachment and will be introducing an alternative measure to censure him. if she goes this route, she'll have officially lost me as a fan.

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why didnt this bother you when i pointed out she was torpedoing the impeachment weeks ago?

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Originally Posted by blake

tulsi is supposedly on the fence about impeachment and will be introducing an alternative measure to censure him. if she goes this route, she'll have officially lost me as a fan.

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Nice lady but she is way over her head.
Maybe she should just stay in Hawaii and help Americans who buy homes there avoid getting beaten up or killed by fat Hawaiian men.

She is 38 years old.
Her husband is 30 years old.

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax/file...34943cdc0f.jpg

https://answersafrica.com/wp-content...44-640x450.jpg

shes no longer running for anything in hawaii and is going to be a talking head on fox news or whatever conservative cesspool media empire trump fires up once he 'retires'.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

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Originally Posted by blake

tulsi is supposedly on the fence about impeachment and will be introducing an alternative measure to censure him. if she goes this route, she'll have officially lost me as a fan.

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why didnt this bother you when i pointed out she was torpedoing the impeachment weeks ago?

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i was committed at that point

if only diggydow was here to explain how this all makes sense and is a perfectly reasonable response from a democrat whose job is to represent her constituents will.