Matt Kemp pounding 2 home runs in the first 2 innings.
What an amazing hitter he has turned out to be.
Dodgers up 6-1 early and will probably move to 8-1 on the year.
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Matt Kemp pounding 2 home runs in the first 2 innings.
What an amazing hitter he has turned out to be.
Dodgers up 6-1 early and will probably move to 8-1 on the year.
So there was that really weird triple play today in the 9th.
Game was tied up 4-4, San Diego was batting in the top of the 9th, had men on 1st and 2nd with nobody out.
Jesus Guzman was trying to bunt, but the ball curved inside on him, so he backed off, the ball hit the bat, fell behind the plate (foul), but rolled fair before anyone touched it.
According to MLB rules, that makes it a fair ball. Dodgers catcher AJ Ellis picked up the ball, threw to 3rd, who then threw to 2nd, who then threw to 1st for the triple play.
The problem? The home plate umpire, thinking he was getting out of the way because everyone was backing away from the out-of-control ball, accidentally threw his arms up, which signals a foul ball. This confused all of the Padres, and by the time they figured out what was going on, it was too late.
Truthfully the Padres got fucked here. Even though the ball WAS fair, the umpire's accidental signal made it look foul, and it allowed the Dodgers to get the easy triple play. Had the umpire not thrown his arms up like that, the Dodgers likely would have gotten at best a double-play, and maybe only a force-out at 3rd.
The Dodgers then went on to load up the bases with 1 out, wasted the next out on a 3-2 count with a pop up, but Dee Gordon (who has struggled big time since I praised him so heavily here) got the winning walkoff RBI.
Dodgers got a huge gift from the umpire here, but they are now 9-1 to start the season.
Matt Kemp has been the best hitter in baseball thus far, slugging his 6th home run, getting 3 hits, and is now batting something like .487 with 16 RBI.
Only fitting that there was another odd ending to that series. Also, besides Kemp and Kershaw, people are overlooking hot starts by Ethier and Billingsley, and a solid first start off the dl by the criminally-underrated Ted Lilly. If Capuano and Harang can at least pitch better than average 4-5 starters, they may hang in contention til july 1st. Then it'll be interesting to see if new ownership will spend some dough on a bat. Kinda early to tell who might be available, but Carlos Lee probably will be one, and would be an offensive upgrade at 1B. Maybe go balls out and really trade some chips for David Wright when the Mets start fading away soon.
So the Padres got f*cked...But there was no gaurantee even with runners on and no outs that they would score...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTK4u...ture=endscreen
Throwing your arms up is NOT the signal for a foul ball. If anything it would most likely be construed as the signal for Time. The umpire will also verbalizes loudly TIME!!! Since there is no possible way anybody would be calling time(other than a hit batsman)at that juncture of the game & it has to be requested by somebody on the field anyway the Padres have no real arguement. The umpire didn't verbalize anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
The signal for a foul ball is to point to foul territory & yell FOUL BALL!!!. He definitely didn't do this.
The signal for a fair ball is to point to fair territory & not say a word so there is no way to confuse it with the umpire yelling foul ball. He actually did point to fair territory to indicate a fair ball.
The umpire did not yell anything so, although they are going to claim confusion, the Padres do not have a case. The Padres did not get fucked, they just don't know the rules & when they stop to think about it will have to grudgingly agree. They won't make that mistake again for awhile.
BTW, I have 20 years umpiring experience.
More than anything it should show how idiotic Padres manager Bud Black was in that situation. A sac bunt in that situation is a pretty bad call, as your odds of scoring do not increase much going from runners at 1-2 with no outs to runners at 2-3 with 1 out. Also, the fact he was having his cleanup hitter attempt the bunt! Granted the Padres blow, and Guzman wouldn't start for probably any other team in the bigs, but if you cant trust your cleanup hitter to swing freely in that situation, you might as well not even show up to the park!
You are 100% wrong. 2 hands up means a foul/dead ball, as well as time. An umpire only points foul when its hit sharply down the line, or in the air down the line. If you don't believe me, the entire Padres roster, Vin Scully, and every baseball writer in America after that play happened, a simple google search will show you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey GuyThrowing your arms up is NOT the signal for a foul ball. If anything it would most likely be construed as the signal for Time. The umpire will also verbalizes loudly TIME!!! Since there is no possible way anybody would be calling time(other than a hit batsman)at that juncture of the game & it has to be requested by somebody on the field anyway the Padres have no real arguement. The umpire didn't verbalize anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
The signal for a foul ball is to point to foul territory & yell FOUL BALL!!!. He definitely didn't do this.
The signal for a fair ball is to point to fair territory & not say a word so there is no way to confuse it with the umpire yelling foul ball. He actually did point to fair territory to indicate a fair ball.
The umpire did not yell anything so, although they are going to claim confusion, the Padres do not have a case. The Padres did not get fucked, they just don't know the rules & when they stop to think about it will have to grudgingly agree. They won't make that mistake again for awhile.
BTW, I have 20 years umpiring experience.
1.Two hands up means absolutely nothing without TIME!!!! being verbalized just for this very reason. When they are calling Time in this manner they are usually very animated & verbalize it so there is no confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
2. I guess your right about only pointing & yelling FOUL BALL!!!! on something that is relatively close. They certainly don't do that on foul balls 50 rows into the stands. Obviously everybody knows that's foul. Other than that I have no idea what your point is with that comment. This was obviously a close play & if he was calling it foul he would have been fairly animated & pointed foul while verbalizing it to avoid confusion.
3. I'm speaking from experience as an umpire. While Vin Scully is the most credible source you've cited here, I would never blindly listen to the team that thinks they just got screwed, because they are emotionally involved, or baseball writers because most of them don't know the rules or nuances of the game. Vin Scully is probably trying to be diplomatic & not antagonize the Padre fans.
Bottom line is the Padres were not fucked over, they just made a mistake assuming that the batter had been hit when he clearly had not been. The baserunners fucked up, plain & simple.
I don't see how I'm even 1% wrong let alone 100%.
Hockey Guy may technically be right, but umpires throwing up their hands to indicate a foul ball has become so common that it has become accepted, much like allowing first basemen to "cheat" a bit off the bag when making a play at first has also become accepted.
As you guys know, I am a huge Dodgers fan, but even I felt a little bit dirty about that triple play. It is true that the Dodgers might have won without it. They would have at least gotten a force at 3rd, and perhaps a second out at first. They also scored in the 9th, and could have scored multiple runs if Dee Gordon's hit wasn't of the walkoff variety.
Still, I can't blame the Padres for thinking it was foul because:
1) The ball appeared foul, since it initially landed behind the plate
2) The umpire threw up his hands, as they all typically do in such cases where the ball is foul
So the question remains: If a situation is not clear cut (whether the ball is fair or foul), and the umpire ACCIDENTALLY signals something he didn't really mean, do the baserunners still have the obligation to do the safe thing and run until it's clarified?
I don't know what the right solution would have been. If they ruled the call was accidental and forced the call to be foul, that would have fucked the Dodgers, as they would have at least gotten a force-out and perhaps a double-play, and it's unfair to rob that from them. Remember, the ball WAS actually fair, and AJ Ellis was lightning quick to pick it up and fire to 3rd.
I'm really at a loss to say what the fair thing would have been.
I've went out & found this video since I only saw it on the highlight packages last night & the one provided here doesn't work so I was working off memory.
Upon further review I am wrong. He was way too animated &, although he didn't verbalize it, as soon as paused then extended his hands even more skyward & opened his hand like he was going to point, he's basically committing himself to killing the play before realizing he was wrong & stopped himself. I can see why they are upset but the correct call was made.
By wrong I mean they have a reason to be upset.
Very unfortunate for the Padres.
Thats basically what i was saying. Verbalizing doesn't really mean shit to a guy standing on second surrounded by 40k fans and music playing. The hands up does signal a dead ball, and thus there was no reason for the Padres to move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
Ultimately AJ Ellis pulled the move that alot of defensive players in the NFL do....grab a loose ball after the play is probably dead, and just start runnign with it, in hopes for a fuckup by the refs. In this case, the Dodgers and Ellis got lucky...although Ellis being the catcher probably didnt even see the hands up debacle and just played it like he should, but i guarantee the other dodger fielders were probably not moving very quickly until they saw ellis pick up to throw. I'm sure they also assumed a dead ball. I haven't seen any camera angles shot to verify this, and obviously none of them would admit it.
The play kind of reminds me of this Bradshaw fumble from the NFC championship this last season. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvjzArpL7PcQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
At least in the NFL, for better or worse, they have a set guideline, once a whistle is blown its over...right or wrong. IMO, the umps should've called it a foul ball after it was all said and done, even if foul was technically the wrong call, since the home plate ump fucked it all up with using horrible mechanics signaling otherwise.
I disagree that it should have been ruled foul for two reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by gutThe play kind of reminds me of this Bradshaw fumble from the NFC championship this last season. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvjzArpL7PcQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
At least in the NFL, for better or worse, they have a set guideline, once a whistle is blown its over...right or wrong. IMO, the umps should've called it a foul ball after it was all said and done, even if foul was technically the wrong call, since the home plate ump fucked it all up with using horrible mechanics signaling otherwise.
1) It wasn't foul.
2) A foul call would have screwed the Dodgers even more than the accdiental foul signal from the umpire screwed the Padres. That's because, had the umpire acted properly, the Dodgers still would have likely turned a double play from what occurred, and the Padres would have been stuck with 2 outs and a man either at first or second. Basically, the Padres got "cheated" out of one out, but the Dodgers would have been cheated out of two if the call went the other way.
While I don't know how the umps could have justified a "compromise" call from the point of view of game rules, I think the most fair thing here would have been to assume a Dodgers double play (a force at third and a play at first), and let the next batter come up with 2 outs and a man on 2nd.
Oh yeah, I mean in reality, unless they could somehow give the dodgers credit for 1.5 outs there, there's no real compromise. I was comparing the NFL's way of officiating to MLB's. Like imagine if in that clip I posted, if after all the whistles blew, all of a sudden after a 49er has the ball and gets up and starts running, THEN the official starts doing some motion saying "ah yeah, plays still going, just ignore that whistle". "I, uh, accidentally breathed through my mouth into that whistle"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI disagree that it should have been ruled foul for two reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
1) It wasn't foul.
2) A foul call would have screwed the Dodgers even more than the accdiental foul signal from the umpire screwed the Padres. That's because, had the umpire acted properly, the Dodgers still would have likely turned a double play from what occurred, and the Padres would have been stuck with 2 outs and a man either at first or second. Basically, the Padres got "cheated" out of one out, but the Dodgers would have been cheated out of two if the call went the other way.
While I don't know how the umps could have justified a "compromise" call from the point of view of game rules, I think the most fair thing here would have been to assume a Dodgers double play (a force at third and a play at first), and let the next batter come up with 2 outs and a man on 2nd.
But, ultimately, a freak occurrence in a freakish series.
1. Verbalizing does mean shit. It's the reason the call stood. If all you needed was the signal, then the play would have been ruled dead. He was going to call a foul ball then realized it wasn't going to be a foul ball & changed his mind. They are taught not to jump the gun & make the call too soon & this was his mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
I compare it to a hockey referee starting to put his arm up to call a penalty but changing his mind after it's a third of the way up & putting it back down. Everybody saw that he was going to call a penalty & will complain but unless his arm goes up all the way he's not obligated to make the call. Hockey refs are also taught not to jump the gun & wait until the whole play unfolds before making their decision to call a penalty. This slight delay is why they get accused of calling the game to the home crowds whims & they actually do this at times. Verbalizing in baseball is like the whistle in hockey.
2. They don't play music(at least not that loud)while the play is going on(I've only been to 1 live MLB game but I don't remember them playing music during play but I could be wrong)&, you wouldn't think it, but the players usually have no troubles hearing the ump because they know exactly what they are listening for. They are listening for TIME or FOUL & the umps are not quiet about it.
3. Although there was confusion, the reason there was a triple play was questionable base running by the player at second base. This is however understandable, but not because of the umpires inadverdant signal but, because the pitch was 3 feet inside & it was pretty hard to believe that the batter was not hit since it looked like he was going to be drilled in the ribs.
Base runners only have 2 things to worry about in this situation:
A) Get a decent lead while the pitch is on the way while still leaving the option to get back if the bunt is missed.
B) When contact is made, if the ball is on the ground & not popped up, start running like hell & pick up your third base coach for your instructions. He didn't do either of these things & basically just stood near 2nd base in shock.
This is where the understandable part comes into play. Because the pitch was so far inside, his concentration was broken & he didn't react. Instead of concentrating on what he's supposed to which is:
1. Is the ball on the ground? Yes, then I have to run.
his thought process was probably something along the lines of:
1. Holy fuck did that pitch hit him?
2. Wow, that was close.
3. Fuck is he lucky, how the fuck did that not hit him?
4. Good thing that didn't hit him or that would have hurt.
At this point a triple play is inevitable & is how all these odd triple plays happen. The lead runner forgot what he was supposed to do which is to run on contact(as long as it's not popped up), the other runner is following the lead of the lead runner which he is supposed to do & the catcher, knowing the play isn't dead because he knows the ump hasn't verbalized anything, starts it around the horn. Meanwhile, the batter had bailed at the plate & was now 20 feet further away from first & on the ground. As long as the ball was fair, which it was, he was going to be out.
To say : I didn't run because the ump signalled something is not entirely true.
Would he have just stood there if the pitch was right over the middle & a routine bunt was made even if it had landed in foul territory & the ump inadverdantly put his hands up to his ears while getting out of the way? Of course not. He's running on contact & wouldn't be looking at the umps reaction.
Does he stop running when the ump actually makes his mistake & it looks like he is going to rule the play dead? Of course not. He wouldn't be looking at the umps reaction. He's looking at the third base coach to see if he has to slide.
It's just unfortunate circumstances, but to just blame the ump 100%, although he did make a slight error, is not correct IMO. He's just being made the scapegoat here. The base runners made mistakes also.
Sorry this is so long.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...gif?1318992465Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy1. Verbalizing does mean shit. It's the reason the call stood. If all you needed was the signal, then the play would have been ruled dead. He was going to call a foul ball then realized it wasn't going to be a foul ball & changed his mind. They are taught not to jump the gun & make the call too soon & this was his mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
I compare it to a hockey referee starting to put his arm up to call a penalty but changing his mind after it's a third of the way up & putting it back down. Everybody saw that he was going to call a penalty & will complain but unless his arm goes up all the way he's not obligated to make the call. Hockey refs are also taught not to jump the gun & wait until the whole play unfolds before making their decision to call a penalty. This slight delay is why they get accused of calling the game to the home crowds whims & they actually do this at times. Verbalizing in baseball is like the whistle in hockey.
2. They don't play music(at least not that loud)while the play is going on(I've only been to 1 live MLB game but I don't remember them playing music during play but I could be wrong)&, you wouldn't think it, but the players usually have no troubles hearing the ump because they know exactly what they are listening for. They are listening for TIME or FOUL & the umps are not quiet about it.
3. Although there was confusion, the reason there was a triple play was questionable base running by the player at second base. This is however understandable, but not because of the umpires inadverdant signal but, because the pitch was 3 feet inside & it was pretty hard to believe that the batter was not hit since it looked like he was going to be drilled in the ribs.
Base runners only have 2 things to worry about in this situation:
A) Get a decent lead while the pitch is on the way while still leaving the option to get back if the bunt is missed.
B) When contact is made, if the ball is on the ground & not popped up, start running like hell & pick up your third base coach for your instructions. He didn't do either of these things & basically just stood near 2nd base in shock.
This is where the understandable part comes into play. Because the pitch was so far inside, his concentration was broken & he didn't react. Instead of concentrating on what he's supposed to which is:
1. Is the ball on the ground? Yes, then I have to run.
his thought process was probably something along the lines of:
1. Holy fuck did that pitch hit him?
2. Wow, that was close.
3. Fuck is he lucky, how the fuck did that not hit him?
4. Good thing that didn't hit him or that would have hurt.
At this point a triple play is inevitable & is how all these odd triple plays happen. The lead runner forgot what he was supposed to do which is to run on contact(as long as it's not popped up), the other runner is following the lead of the lead runner which he is supposed to do & the catcher, knowing the play isn't dead because he knows the ump hasn't verbalized anything, starts it around the horn. Meanwhile, the batter had bailed at the plate & was now 20 feet further away from first & on the ground. As long as the ball was fair, which it was, he was going to be out.
To say : I didn't run because the ump signalled something is not entirely true.
Would he have just stood there if the pitch was right over the middle & a routine bunt was made even if it had landed in foul territory & the ump inadverdantly put his hands up to his ears while getting out of the way? Of course not. He's running on contact & wouldn't be looking at the umps reaction.
Does he stop running when the ump actually makes his mistake & it looks like he is going to rule the play dead? Of course not. He wouldn't be looking at the umps reaction. He's looking at the third base coach to see if he has to slide.
It's just unfortunate circumstances, but to just blame the ump 100%, although he did make a slight error, is not correct IMO. He's just being made the scapegoat here. The base runners made mistakes also.
Sorry this is so long.
Dodgers just got their payback for the favorable call against the Padres.
Nyjer Morgan looked out at home on a sac fly that would have ended the inning, but somehow was ruled safe for a walkoff Brewers win.
:gay
Matt hit his 7th dinger yeasterday...This might get old as he on track for 90 HR and 200 RBIs for the season...
:lol2
He's a right handed hitter and all his homers have been to center and right field?...
But reason as two sport reporters online say is that his bat speed is so fast he waits on the pitch to see what kind is..
Then goodbye baseball...
Dodgers now 12-3.
Only 9 HR for Matt Kemp, to go along with 22 RBI and a .471 average in 15 games.
Kemp and Ethier have combined for 43 RBIs, which ties a Major League record for most RBIs by two players on the same team after 15 games.
Kershaw finally looked like Kershaw today.
On the negative side, nobody else is really hitting, Dee Gordon is having trouble making contact, and the Dodgers lost 2 out of 3 against the only good team they've played.
Still, I'm feeling optimistic about this season.
Matt's still on pace for 90 HRs and 200 RBIs and that triple crown...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
One problem I see is that he's going to start to get a lot of intentional walks...May set the record for that too...
Can you beleive I forgot to pitch Kershaw yesterday...I can't beleive what a dumb f*ck I am at times...I couldn't even sleep last night thinking about...
I may try to trade Kershaw for Verlander as I have Detroit's closer...