IS SEALS WITH CLUBS DONKDOWN??? (Update: Micon charged with a felony in Nevada)

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Originally Posted by JoeD

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

It was probably some noob who sucked at poker, lost a bunch of bitcoin on Seals, and then thought to himself "zomg rigged", and reported the site for breaking US gambling laws or whatever.

It is possible that the Belgian guy is a partially true excuse for why they investigated Seals, to where he was the first to complain, but in reality they finally took action because Caesars bitched or something. I'm just guessing here, but it didn't take 18 months for them to determine that Micon was "chairman" and that he was living in Las Vegas. Obviously something kicked the NGC's asses into high gear in late 2014 or early 2015.

And I'm guessing it was someone/something with influence in the state of Nevada.

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I'm going to go full tinfoil hat conspiracy here - please dont flame me too much. I'm mostly a long time lurker and dont know Micon at all, so I probably have the time line wrong. But I love the law and good legal mysteries.

I believe that Micon started with Seals some time in 2011, but the tip to Nevada Gaming did not come until August 2013, so very little chance it's someone who was either affiliated with Seals itself or a long time player at Seals.

I'm not sure about Bitcoin values spiking and then falling, but it's possible that it could have been someone in 2013, familiar with Micon, that lost enough money in Bitcoins to be pissed at him. Possible, but not very likely.

So who in early to mid 2013 could have been so angry at Micon to want to destroy him by reporting him to local Nevada authorities. A person or group of people not only familiar with Micon, poker and Seals With Clubs, but also with some European ties AND familiar enough with Nevada law to know to contact someone at the Nevada Gaming Association (as compared to simply contacting the DOJ on a federal level, which someone from Belgium would more likely do).

So who (locally) fits the above criteria? hmmmm....

http://www.donkdown.com/daniel-negre...ter-scam-cult/

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You just went full retarded. No one needed to tip anyone off. Micon did a good job of making sure they already knew.

Keep in mind micon had hundreds of enemies in bitcoin. He saw to it to expose scams. He was very vocal in getting numerous ponzi schemes shut down and also at least one major business. Anyone one of these guys could have passed along his info. As much as some people dislike him here it is worse in thar community given how outspoken he was. He was very polarizing.

I should never have watched Going Clear on HBO and what cults will do to non-believers. Full retard for sure, my apologies!

Micon it is time to pull out all the stops.

Register an account at PFA.

 

1x

Reading the statute closer Micon is really fucked, the not being an owner is not a legal defense in this case.

He really should consider coming back as soon as possible, and go for the mercy route.

Minimum is a year in jail, he has no priors, he can probably get near bottom sentencing and move on with his life in a way that is pretty minimal all things considered.

Looks pretty obvious that Micon has very little money to fall back on. And I'm including his stash of Bitcoins in that.


And the donations he's asking for will dry up faster than a rape victims cunt.


So that leaves his only possible source of income being SwC.. But you would have to be insane to deposit on a site that's currently sitting on a trapdoor.


Anyway I agree with the popular view.... that he is seriously fucked here.



Also. jail isn't the end of the world for somebody that sees 'themselves' as an entrepreneur.

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Originally Posted by Lord of the Fraud

Looks pretty obvious that Micon has very little money to fall back on. And I'm including his stash of Bitcoins in that.


And the donations he's asking for will dry up faster than a rape victims cunt.


So that leaves his only possible source of income being SwC.. But you would have to be insane to deposit on a site that's currently sitting on a trapdoor.


Anyway I agree with the popular view.... that he is seriously fucked here.



Also. jail isn't the end of the world for somebody that sees 'themselves' as an entrepreneur.

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One of the parts of this that really makes me shake my head is if he had simply read the statute and realized that living in NV was a big fucking mistake. He could have simply moved 45 minutes south over the border and into Arizona and drove up to the city anytime he wanted to. By living in Nevada he opened himself up to all sorts of risk.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

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Originally Posted by Lord of the Fraud

Looks pretty obvious that Micon has very little money to fall back on. And I'm including his stash of Bitcoins in that.


And the donations he's asking for will dry up faster than a rape victims cunt.


So that leaves his only possible source of income being SwC.. But you would have to be insane to deposit on a site that's currently sitting on a trapdoor.


Anyway I agree with the popular view.... that he is seriously fucked here.



Also. jail isn't the end of the world for somebody that sees 'themselves' as an entrepreneur.

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One of the parts of this that really makes me shake my head is if he had simply read the statute and realized that living in NV was a big fucking mistake. He could have simply moved 45 minutes south over the border and into Arizona and drove up to the city anytime he wanted to. By living in Nevada he opened himself up to all sorts of risk.

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In his defense, this was clearly a major reason why he was pricing Antigua properties when btc were up in the 4 digit range.

The market crashed, he put shit on hold probably because he thought his digital beanie babies were doing to swing up any day now, and lost the race.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

One of the parts of this that really makes me shake my head is if he had simply read the statute and realized that living in NV was a big fucking mistake. He could have simply moved 45 minutes south over the border and into Arizona and drove up to the city anytime he wanted to. By living in Nevada he opened himself up to all sorts of risk.

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THIS

Also don't be the f'n "Chairman".

Be the "Affiliate GURU" or "Sponsored Pro" etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

Reading the statute closer Micon is really fucked, the not being an owner is not a legal defense in this case.

He really should consider coming back as soon as possible, and go for the mercy route.

Minimum is a year in jail, he has no priors, he can probably get near bottom sentencing and move on with his life in a way that is pretty minimal all things considered.

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It also helps he's a white person

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One of the parts of this that really makes me shake my head is if he had simply read the statute and realized that living in NV was a big fucking mistake. He could have simply moved 45 minutes south over the border and into Arizona and drove up to the city anytime he wanted to. By living in Nevada he opened himself up to all sorts of risk.

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:sftrue

just gonna leave this here:

http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/group.php?groupid=1

Micon and Bitcoin was the reason I started playing poker seriously. Hope he can figure out a way to avoid major jail time.

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Originally Posted by simpdog

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Originally Posted by abrown83

One of the parts of this that really makes me shake my head is if he had simply read the statute and realized that living in NV was a big fucking mistake. He could have simply moved 45 minutes south over the border and into Arizona and drove up to the city anytime he wanted to. By living in Nevada he opened himself up to all sorts of risk.

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THIS

Also don't be the f'n "Chairman".

Be the "Affiliate GURU" or "Sponsored Pro" etc. etc.

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Actually if you read the law that wouldn't matter basically earning money in any form from Seals would make him liable for a Class B Felony.

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Originally Posted by abrown83

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Originally Posted by simpdog

THIS

Also don't be the f'n "Chairman".

Be the "Affiliate GURU" or "Sponsored Pro" etc. etc.

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Actually if you read the law that wouldn't matter basically earning money in any form from Seals would make him liable for a Class B Felony.

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Did the higher-ups of Tilt/Stars/etc make deals so they wouldn't go after site pros/affiliates?

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Originally Posted by FPS_Russia

Five suits from the State of Nevada standing behind a official state podium announcing your arrest warrant. Not good.

I was thinking maybe they wouldn't go to Ant. to extradite Micon or maybe they'd offer Micon a stiff fine plus probation plea deal.

I dunno, looks like these guys can't wait to throw his ass in the shit hole county jail and set his bail for a million bucks.

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Taking suggestions for photoshop opportunities with this photo.

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Originally Posted by 4Dragons

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Originally Posted by FPS_Russia

Five suits from the State of Nevada standing behind a official state podium announcing your arrest warrant. Not good.

I was thinking maybe they wouldn't go to Ant. to extradite Micon or maybe they'd offer Micon a stiff fine plus probation plea deal.

I dunno, looks like these guys can't wait to throw his ass in the shit hole county jail and set his bail for a million bucks.

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Taking suggestions for photoshop opportunities with this photo.

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I'm thinking a Seals with club logo on the inside of the "great seal of the state of nevada"

Not sure what else

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Originally Posted by simpdog

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Originally Posted by abrown83

Actually if you read the law that wouldn't matter basically earning money in any form from Seals would make him liable for a Class B Felony.

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Did the higher-ups of Tilt/Stars/etc make deals so they wouldn't go after site pros/affiliates?

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That case wasn't a Nevada based case. It was a Federal case, different laws entirely.

http://i.imgur.com/nAdlcij.jpg

Negreanu on the far left (you dont even have to alter the hairline), Justin Smith next to him. To the right of the podium, put Drexel, then put the black crackhead, and Druff behind the podium.

If you want your face to repeatedly hit your palm, read this reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...felony_arrest/

Everyone being blamed, from Adelson to the big casinos to the government to the "corrupt police".

It's everyone's fault but Micon's that this brave freedom fighter and pioneer is in trouble with the law.

I know I have said this many times, both in this thread and on radio, but it really shocks me that otherwise intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it.

Like it's one thing to support Micon because you like him and don't want to see him suffer.

It's also understandable if you support Micon because you enjoyed playing on Seals and hate the thought of someone going to prison for providing it to you.

But LOL if you really think he was a victim of the oppressive government or the big corporations.

:facepalm4

Those tags tho

"druff won't ever need viagra after this"

:lol2

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

"druff won't ever need viagra after this"

:lol2

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Is that a Hebrew National in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

I think Micon's best bet MAY be to stay on the run if he's making ok money at SWC2 and he can find a reasonably safe place. At least he has a chance of being free and achieving his dreams.
He should maybe try to negotiate a plea before returning, is that even possible?

If you guys were Micon right now what would you do?



If he come's to the USA, between lawyers and fines he's gonna owe forever. The prosecutors seem to be setting a precedent with Micon's case, not good. Could be a semi bluff tho.

They're gonna make his bail an outrageous amount for sure.
His wife will likely move on if he serves time. His daughter will be humiliated. His so called friends will forget all about him.
He will step out of the pen in how ever many years, broke, abandoned, owe fines and maybe even back child support and be a convicted felon. Feds may also bring charges.


Extended stay at the county jail that serves Las Vegas Metro, fuck that!
Druff/Pooh have the deeds to your houses on stand by for bail, don't worry, you'll get it back.

You two should pool funds, see if Ray Bitar's lawyer is available.
Seems like Micon hired some kooky lawyer, maybe not tho.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I know I have said this many times, both in this thread and on radio, but it really shocks me that otherwise intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it.

Like it's one thing to support Micon because you like him and don't want to see him suffer.

It's also understandable if you support Micon because you enjoyed playing on Seals and hate the thought of someone going to prison for providing it to you.

But LOL if you really think he was a victim of the oppressive government or the big corporations.

:facepalm4

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I truly believe he wanted this to happen, subconsciously.

Micon originally sought fame but now settling with infamy as the dream of being a donkament star died. Like a school girl bragging about her first kiss, the first thing he did when he got back on twitter was was tweet at other anarchist extremes about his bust. It's like he's proud of his arrest.

I almost want to donate to his gofund me page. Despite all the goofing on him I don't want to see him in jail. But the last time i supported micon with hitting the donate buttont on DD, buying hats i never wear, and contributed to his free rolls, what did i get? I got "snapped off clean" when i called into the radio show. So i think ill hold off.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I know I have said this many times, both in this thread and on radio, but it really shocks me that otherwise intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it.

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You would last 5 minutes on Wall St.

Either way, the answer to this lies in the middle:

- big corporations do stand in the way of innovation, and often rig the game in their favor. Adelson, who bribed many an official in Macao to build their casinos there, have yet to face any type of punishment for their actions (esp in USA). Corporate malfeasance never gets punished as well; Gary Loveman ran Caesar's into the ground and he gets stock options and buyouts. And we get the fail WSOP.com site.

- Micon, in the grand scheme of things, is really a little guy in all of this compared to those who really committed worse crimes. It's like a cop who shuts down a 12 year old lemonade stand for not having a permit for a business (technically illegal); but then the DA looks the other way and allows Harry Reid to take payments under the table left and right from Pokerstars who tries to setup shop in the state. As Dutch Boyd stated, its appalling that Russ Hamilton is golfing in Vegas for doing things 100x's worse, while Micon is living in exile. Ditto with that cunt Jennifer Larsen. The fact that the taxpayers of Nevada are bankrolling this, while many others like Howard Lederer walk the streets free just because he can afford top lawyers and skate on some technicality, is really absurd.

- That being said, regulation and having cops on the beat is extremely important. We all learned that from Black Friday. I also respect the laws that Nevada has and why they have them (with gritted teeth). Micon made his own shat bed here. He knew the risks, didn't give two fucks about them, and probably went about things in the worse way possible especially considering he was too blind to have faith in BTC that he fucked over and pushed away every person close to him in the process. We also don't know if SwC was on the up-and-up; and regulation allows that to happen. Yet again, it took the fail DOJ 4 fucking years to get my money back to me, so if the player base loses faith in "the law", at least respect where the fuck we are coming from.

The reason however, "intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it", is because of the fact (and most of us, deep down won't admit it), is because the "rule of law" is fading. It's the only thing that irks me from the "law and order" crowd; the fact that people use blanketed statements that those who write the laws, those who enforce the laws, and the laws themselves, are these "golden standard" set of rules that we must all abide by because of some god-fearing calvinist bullshit beaten into us via propaganda and men with guns. We aren't all as stupid as Micon.

The laws are only as honorable as those who enforce them. Laws are made by humans; the same humans who had to take 2 million years to figure out that simply washing their hands would increase life expectancy by 25+ years.

Wall St execs getting away with fraud and market manipulation. Regulators getting bought out via cushy private sector jobs after leaving the public sector. Corporations fucking societies over left and right via tax avoidance laws, corruption, and political blackmail. Cops getting away with murder in the streets just because they wear a badge. And politicians, where every town in America was already looted by bankers and other cronies, colluded to keep the culprits out of jail while you and I, if we are caught doing something like a DUI or shop lifting, get the book thrown at us (and if you are brown person, will also get shot while doing so). Then they dictate to the people that, "violence isn't an option". "Follow the laws or be punished." Do they own a mirror?

THAT'S why people defend Micon; who compares himself to some freedom fighter like the retard degenerate he is. He knew the risks, the laws on the books. He also knew that all other gambling operator CEOs like Scheinberg and Ayre lived outside of the US for a reason and never stepped foot back in again. He decided to roll the dice and it came up snake eyes. He felt BTC was untouchable. So did Charlie Schrem (who tried to run Silk Road from NYC; really fucking smart). Shit happens.

He's a moron and we are all laughing but deep down, we all know that this dog-n-pony show is really just for the moneyed interests in charge, and not really for the betterment of the customer or for a "level" playing field (which is why Druff is in favor for regulation, and I agree with him). I just don't think THAT is why the NGC is doing this.

I'm not going to donate to Micon's gofundme. I wish him well, but he is drawing to a one outer on the river at this point. That money will be set on fire in court and he'll be serving at least 8-12 mths in prison if I had to guess, lawyers be damned. It's too bad he isn't a Hilton kid.

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Originally Posted by Shizzmoney

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I know I have said this many times, both in this thread and on radio, but it really shocks me that otherwise intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it.

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You would last 5 minutes on Wall St.

Either way, the answer to this lies in the middle:

- big corporations do stand in the way of innovation, and often rig the game in their favor. Adelson, who bribed many an official in Macao to build their casinos there, have yet to face any type of punishment for their actions (esp in USA). Corporate malfeasance never gets punished as well; Gary Loveman ran Caesar's into the ground and he gets stock options and buyouts. And we get the fail WSOP.com site.

- Micon, in the grand scheme of things, is really a little guy in all of this compared to those who really committed worse crimes. It's like a cop who shuts down a 12 year old lemonade stand for not having a permit for a business; but then the DA looks the other way and allows Harry Reid to take payments under the table left and right from Pokerstars. As Dutch Boyd stated, its appalling that Russ Hamilton is golfing in Vegas, while Micon is living in exile, for doing things 100x's worse. Ditto with that cunt Jennifer Larsen. The fact that the taxpayers of Nevada are bankrolling this, while many others like Howard Lederer walk the streets free, is really absurd.

- That being said, regulation and having cops on the beat is extremely important. We all learned that from Black Friday. I also respect the laws that Nevada has and why they have them (with gritted teeth). Micon made his own shat bed here. He knew the risks, didn't give two fucks about them, and probably went about things in the worse way possible especially considering he was too blind to have faith in BTC that he fucked over and pushed away every person close to him in the process.

The reason however, "intelligent individuals believe that you should have the right to break a law (and profit while doing so) simply because you don't agree with it", is because of the fact (and most of us, deep down won't admit it), is because the "rule of law" is fading. It's the only thing that irks me from the "law and order" crowd; the fact that people use blanketed statements that those who write the laws, those who enforce the laws, and the laws themselves, are these "golden standard" set of rules that we must all abide by because of some god-fearing calvinist bullshit beaten into us via propaganda and men with guns.

Wall St execs getting away with fraud and market manipulation left and right. Regulators getting bought out via cushy private sector jobs after leaving the public sector. Corporations fucking societies over left and right via tax avoidance laws, corruption, and political blackmail. Cops getting away with murder in the streets just because they wear a badge. And politicians, where every town in America was already looted by bankers and other cronies, and colluded to keep the culprits out of jail while you and I, if we are caught doing something like a DUI or shop lifting, get the book throw at us (and if you are brown person, will also get shot for doing so).

THAT'S why people defend Micon; who compares himself to some freedom fighter like the retard degenerate he is. He knew the risks, the laws on the books. He also knew that all other gambling operator CEOs like Scheinberg and Ayre lived outside of the US for a reason and never stepped foot back in again. He decided to roll the dice and it came up snake eyes. He felt BTC was untouchable. So did Charlie Schrem (who tried to run Silk Road from NYC; really fucking smart). Shit happens.

He's a moron and we are all laughing but deep down, we all know that this dog-n-pony show is really just for the moneyed interests in charge, and not really for the betterment of the customer or for a "level" playing field (which is why Druff is in favor for regulation, and I agree with him. I just don't think THAT is why the NGC is doing this).

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excellent post

Druff.

Okay, okay. Micon was a bad boy and stands to be punished. We all get it. Nobody is arguing the point here. Is this line of posting influenced by your lurking 2+2? Idiots who post there & the fools who frequent that site. It is polluting your dialogue.

Can we take this in some other direction? I cannot overstate how much I enjoyed Drexel calling in last night. He made a real effort to do so too. I love you Druff but for this listener he gave the show a Hail Mary as he discussed the psychology involved, possible outcomes/scenarios and other 2nd level thinking.

Drexel is god.

Here's the Criminal Complaint that was filed by the State of Nevada against Bryan Micon.

http://ag.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/agnvg...aint_Micon.pdf


http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/att...5&d=1336684845

Micon is only being charged with 1 count of Operating an Unlicensed Interactive Gaming System.

The acts alleged occurred between March 1st 2014 to February 9th 2015.

Prohibition would still be in effect if it wasn't for people breaking the law.

Same goes for marijuana production.

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Originally Posted by OSA

Prohibition would still be in effect if it wasn't for people breaking the law.

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I don't want to see the dystopian nightmare world where nobody ever breaks the law.

"I donked off all my coins on seals already, but I may drop by the local BTM and get some for my dearest chairman. You are definitely the best Icon to have in 2015.
Fuck I'll even testify if possible."

Best reddit quote

Shizzmoney, I actually agree with most of your post.

I do think you are characterizing me in a way as a corporate/government/law-and-order apologist, and I am anything but that.

I was the first person to call out the "we got a complaint from Belgium" story as BS. Not tha the Belgian complaint was necessarily a lie, but LOL @ them starting an investigation (and taking 18 months to serve a search warrant) because some anonymous Belgian e-mailed them about Seals.

I said that clearly some powerful interest -- most likely Caesars or Stations (Ultimate Poker) -- complained about Seals, and demanded action, especially given Micon being the lowest of low hanging fruits to bust right there in Vegas.

So of course they cover up who was really behind the complaint which made them took action, probably to protect future campaign donations, and instead blame the whole thing on a Belgian guy.

L O FUCKING L.

So, yes, the NGC will take action in cases like this MUCH more swiftly if a powerful corporate interest is behind the complaint. No question about that.

And yes, there is clearly too much campaign money going into politics (on both sides of the fence), which often leaves the average citizen like you and me out in the cold, especially when it comes to potentially lucrative opportunities.

And yes, it's disgusting how people like Hamilton, Lederer, Ferguson, Greg Pierson, and the others skated away with no criminal punishment.

I get it, and I won't argue with any of that.

But it has absolutely nothing to do with Micon, and in fact clouds the basic issue.

If I were pulled over driving 85 in a 65 zone, I could not go into court with the excuse of, "There was a guy who passed me going 100, and somehow the cop didn't catch him!" The fact that others got away with breaking the law does not give me the right to get away with anything. That's not a valid legal or moral defense for one's actions. You are responsible for what you do, and the consequences faced or not faced by others doing worse -- while unfair -- are honestly never an excuse for what you did.

I am not one to blindly say, "It's the law and it has to be upheld."

For example, a few years ago, a victim of child molestation in the '70s found his abuser, who was now in his 60s, and beat the crap out of him 35 years later. This was vigilante justice and against the law. At the same time, it was clear that these horrible acts of molestation did occur, and while the law said that the "vigilante" should have gone to prison for assault, he actually got a not-guilty verdict in court. And I completely supported that. Because the law failed to protect this guy (due to retarded statute of limitations issues), he had to take the matter into his own hands to punish his abuser many years later. That's the type of civil disobedience I can support.

I can't support someone's "right" to run an unlicensed gambling site with zero competition simply because he doesn't like or agree with the existing online poker laws.

Micon was not a trailblazer, pioneer, martyr, or David fighting the corporate Goliath.

He was just a guy who did something stupid and ran an obviously illegal business from the most foolhardy location possible, made some money for awhile because of the complete lack of competition, and then got in trouble for it.

Totally standard stuff. Just like Anthony "tongni" Rivera said on 2+2, "This is pretty much the same as running an illegal craps game in your house."

Exactly. That's all it was. Micon ran an illegal gambling operation, got caught, fled, and kept running it where he felt he couldn't be reached by American law enforcement anymore.

You can't do that sort of thing and get away with it, nor should we be donating to the legal defense fund for someone who thinks they can.

Maybe Micon heard the show last night and realized continuing to run the site was a:

:baddecision

"All activity on the sealswithclubs.eu domain will cease on May 5th, 2015. After this date it will not be possible to retrieve your balances, connect an email address to an account, or reset your password, Please request your cashouts immediately and pass along this notice to others if you know any former players."

The note explains also that once the cash-out system will be brought down, "there will no longer be any support for, or activity on, the sealswithclubs.eu domain."

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Originally Posted by OSA

Prohibition would still be in effect if it wasn't for people breaking the law.

Same goes for marijuana production.

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Prohibition speakeasy owners and illegal pot dealers are not breaking laws out of acts of protest or civil disobedience.

They are taking advantage of a huge void in the market (due to illegality) to profit huge. It's all about money.

Same with what Micon did.

You can't claim to be a martyr or activist while profiting big off the fact that nobody else but you is willing to break the law you're rallying against.

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Originally Posted by Daredevil

Maybe Micon heard the show last night and realized continuing to run the site was a:

:baddecision

"All activity on the sealswithclubs.eu domain will cease on May 5th, 2015. After this date it will not be possible to retrieve your balances, connect an email address to an account, or reset your password, Please request your cashouts immediately and pass along this notice to others if you know any former players."

The note explains also that once the cash-out system will be brought down, "there will no longer be any support for, or activity on, the sealswithclubs.eu domain."

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Wrong site.

They are just shutting down the old Seals for good for cashouts.

SWCPOKER is still running.

Did the founders of the original SWC and Micon's later business partner actually keep his true identity hidden from Micon?

Any chance Micon is founder and sole owner from day one and that was the cover story?

If they really kept their identity hidden from Micon, but not only allowed him maybe even cheerleaded him into advertising and being the public face of SWC and then just slunked away with a majority of the profits while Micon's taking the fall seems fucked up.

It's like they were 95% sure Micon/SWC would get busted but instead of attempting to stop Micon's advertising and lose profit they decided to cheer him over the cliff and disappear,